Urine PH, Diet, young female cat

[Time 2 Recognize]

Ok. So I've been dealing with some issues with my 1.8 year old female kitty Echo for a few months now. It all started back in December, on Christmas day, when I came home to her having scratched her ear partially bald.

This is the thread from the day after that all started if anyone wants background to this. I haven't had any issues with her prior and now think the ear situation was a situational anomaly, possible reaction to me driving my friends car that is disgustingly drenched in Fabreeze, or having accidentally put dryer sheets in the bedding laundry the 24 hours leading up to her scratching her ear like she did. She does scratch from time to time (normal I think?), but has not scratched to the point of ripping out fur since that day.

So here's the thing now. It took my cat about 15 days to "get back to normal" in terms of behavior after this. She was low energy/sleeping in her carrier for a solid week, barely wanted play time. I did have a follow up with the regular vet where we did blood work and urinalysis. Her bloodwork came back all good. I had noticed she went from peeing 4x a day to 5x a day two days leading up to the appointment, so urinalisys and then culture was done. She was on Antibiotics (orbax) for two weeks for Ecoli UTI. So it's end of Jan, I had to go away for a week for work, boyfriend who my cat is comfortable with watched her most of that time, my mother the rest. Came home and she was doing well -eating fine and going 4x a day plus poop 1x daily. Playful and seemed content.

End of last week: I noticed increased peeing frequency again and found a pretty small clump within just a couple hours of having gone already. So we end up doing another urinalysis and culture (which I was supposed to have done anyway to make sure antibiotics worked) and the results are in today. No bacterial growth, but there was presence of some crystals and her PH was a bit too high at a 7. Last time was at 6.5. Vet office said I could get methagel to give her to increase acidity and/or to add raw to her diet. So that would be struvite crystals, right?

Her diet: 1 can per day of high quality grain free split into 3 meals -and I add 2-3 tbs of water to the food until it's meat-sauce consistency (Holistic Select chicken, Hound and Gatos brand, and Rawz pate when I can swing it). She also gets some salmon oil added to the food per vet's recommendation. The day her urine was collected, I was on day 2 of giving her d mannose (1/8th tsp Now Brands pure d Mannose x 3 meals a day). I also have been feeding her 3x per day (morning, afternoon and late at night) where as back when the uti started, I was doing 1 can per day split into just breakfast/dinner meals. For the d mannose I'm just doing 1/8 tsp morning and night meal now. I do occasionally give her freeze dried treats (Whole Life chicken or salmon) lately, but small amount or at most a couple pieces broken up and hid around the apartment for fun.

So I guess I'm wondering if anyone with more experience has ideas why her PH would be high like that? I thought I was doing/feeding the right things...is 2 meals better than split into 3 meals and is there "too much" water that I'm adding maybe? Tips for how to test PH at home so I can check in on that myself? She has been back to normal urinations, no noticeable straining or complaining or tiny clumps. But I'd like to check it her PH etc at home if possible. I don't want to swing the PH too far in the other direction either -so not sure if I should get methagel or just make her mid-day snack pre-made raw.. or maybe it's an issue with one of the brands I'm feeding her?

 

[FeebysOwner]

Hi. Yes, a higher PH level is consistent with struvite crystals (vs. oxalate). I don't know much about raw diets, so someone who does will have to chime in on that aspect. But, from what you say, it sounds like you are doing all the right things in terms of meals (3 vs 2) and additional water. There are PH urine strips that you can use at home - assuming your cat would let you place one under her when she is peeing. Otherwise, you would have to get non-absorbent pellets and place them in a sterile litter box - once she has peed you can take a sterile syringe and collect urine that way - either for testing through PH strips or to take to the vets. I think I have even heard that human urine strips can be used, but again - someone else with more knowledge on this will need to confirm that.

Has the vet talked to you about FLUTD? Some cats are just prone to have urinary tract issues, due to genetics and stress that provokes it.

 

[Time 2 Recognize]

Hi thank you so much for responding. So 3 meals should be better than just 2? I read elsewhere that more meals could make the urine more alkaline -so now I'm torn if I should go back to 2 meals. She would definitely request a snack from me midday if I did at this point, since we've been on 3 meals for a few weeks now (since UTI was indicated). I'm also buying a fountain in hopes that she will take to it -because still water is of no interest. No idea of a fountain will do it for her either but figured I might as well try.

I'll look into getting strips. Found these? Which look very comprehensive. I'd imagine while they are for humans, they would still be worthwhile for a kitty sample so long as they read accurately.

My vet hasn't mentioned FLUTD yet, but we haven't spoken since I started her on the Orbax. The front desk called with the results and said to look into Methagel and about adding raw. I did add a tablespoon of raw to her afternoon meal today(Abady raw? Its a NY Local company I guess. Vet sells it so I had some in freezer sectioned into portions, but haven't been using it). I'm a little uncomfortable with it but, if it helps. I'm seeing it has some rice in it, which I'm perplexed by.

On stress: She never had a noticeable issue of any kind with the litter box prior to this incident in December with the other vet. I know that did stress her out, but since then... I'm not sure. I have been depressed and dealing with anxiety about her health/wellbeing, but am trying to be calm and relaxed around her. I worry my apartment is too small to satisfy her honestly. She meows for me to pay attention and I try to play and romp with her best I can as a human, but she's grown bored of just about all the games/toys we've come up with. I don't have the space or finances for a second kitty. I'm honestly worried sometimes if I can give her what she really needs to be happy and healthy.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Those test strips you found should be just fine. And the foods you already feed should are good, especially Rawz. I wish my boys would eat it! I've never heard feeding less meals per day is better for crystals, but if you dig deep enough, I guess you can find anything .(doesn't mean what you find is accurate though)

Using the D-Mannose is good, and if your Vet suggested using Methangel,than I'd probably give it a try too.

Does she try to drink out of any of your faucets? If so, then she'd probably love having a fountain, but if you are feeding only wet food and adding additional water, she simply may not be thirsty. I do the same thing and rarely see mine drinking.

As far as stress, here's an article about it: https://thecatsite.com/c/stress-in-cats/#ams-comment-76023

If you don't have one, perhaps you could invest in a cat tree for her to play on. and maybe help her look out some higher windows if need be. Not sure how your place is set up, but cats normally like to be able to get vertical, so cat trees or cat shelves can be helpful.

Here's another article that might be helpful: https://thecatsite.com/c/bored-cat-what-cat-owners-need-to-know-including-10-actionable-tips/ (my cats LOVE the "cat TV"

 

[Time 2 Recognize]

And the foods you already feed should are good, especially Rawz. I wish my boys would eat it! I've never heard feeding less meals per day is better for crystals, but if you dig deep enough, I guess you can find anything .(doesn't mean what you find is accurate though)

Thank you. Maybe I'll order a case of Rawz again then. the last couple weeks we've been on Holistic Select Chicken + Hound and Gatos Gamebird. I did have a can or two of Pure Vita turkey mixed in there a random day or two since I had them and the ingredients seem on par with the others.
I'm just not understanding why her pH would be high if I'm doing the right things? That's what concerns me. If she had no crystals and pH was a good range a few weeks ago.... I'm wondering if one of these brands is perhaps not ideal? But yet they're also the ones she's been on the last few months. She's was mostly eating the Holistic Select Chicken the day and a half before her urine was most recently tested. She's been peeing ok and hasn't seemed to display discomfort in the last few days, but I'm worried now. I have to call back vets and ask if there was a LOT of struvite sediment or not a lot because I want to be aware of blockage risks...and ask they send results to me...

Does she try to drink out of any of your faucets? If so, then she'd probably love having a fountain, but if you are feeding only wet food and adding additional water, she simply may not be thirsty.

She's never drank from a faucet that I know of. Yeah, she might not use the fountain at all because I add water to each meal. She pees 4-5 times per day. The clumps have been average sized. $30 might be wasted there but it's worth a shot I guess.

On the stress article, thank you for sharing that. So the things I'm concerned about is 1) I live in an "apartment" within my parents house. Its two sizable rooms closed off from the rest of the house and my cat and I spend most of our time here. The larger room has 1/2 the room dedicated to her. Litterbox, a box fort we built her, cat tree in front of balcony door that I open (screened door closed of course) whenever I can for her to perch and look out of. I work from home but am looking to move my workspace to elsewhere in the home so the whole room can be super cat friendly. Other room is where the bed (up against a window for her to look out) and my snake is. That is set up so she can safely perch and have a staring contest with my snake when both are in the mood. There is also a perch for her to look out the other window in that room. I'm worried this isn't enough space though. Free roam the whole house is not an option because I'm scared she will run out a door left open (it happens), + my mother has various unknown plants, and it's generally not cat proof.

I am able to close off the living room and kitchen + a small sunroom. I do this from time to time and bring her downstairs so she has more activity/space to explore. She usually seems to enjoy this but if she indicates at all that she wants to go back up, I bring her back upstairs and don't keep her down there.

When I adopted her, I thought the situation would be ok, but now worry this isn't enough/right for her to be happy and healthy. Also if I move my work space out of the room, maybe that will help with her not picking up on my stress, but it would also mean I'd be out of the room for several hours at a time on a daily basis. Maybe good? Maybe bad? I dunno.

 

[Time 2 Recognize]

Ok, so it's $30 on the water fountain or $30 on a feliway diffuser to see if that helps any. Either could be a bust, but I can't swing both right at this moment...wonder which anyone recommends I try first?

 

[She's a witch]

can you return the fountain if your cat ends up not using it? This is what I did few times. Mine are also on all wet and were not interested in fountain any more than regular bowl (for drinking, for playing the fountain was great). I'd also buy ceramic or stainless steel rather than plastic one but that can be more than $30.
Any chance she's stressed out by your snake?

 

[Time 2 Recognize]

'd also buy ceramic or stainless steel rather than plastic one but that can be more than $30.
Any chance she's stressed out by your snake?

Yeah...I might wait on the fountain then since I am adding 2-3 tbs of water to each meal? Because ceramic or stainless would be better. But can't swing it right yet. I think I'll get the feliway with this chewy order and hope it is helpful to make her feel comfortable. I do feel she has been less happy lately. More removed I guess. She only naps in her tree now where she used to also sometimes nap in a chair near me or on the bed sometimes. Maybe that's just her being a more adult cat, I dunno.

I don't think she is stressed by the snake. She seems excited by her when she is out, but the snake is usually in one of her hiding nooks and is rarely out and about in the tank. When she is, Echo often jumps on top to watch and has been interested since she was a little thing. Never seems scared by her.

Another thing on that stressor list is exercise right? I have a real hard time getting her to run around and play like she used to. She's lost interest in just about all the toys I've bought or come up with. Especially the last few weeks. Its like she will try and play a bit but is underwhelmed with me/the same old game etc. The last thing that got her excited was a zip tie on one of the toy poles. She grew tired of that after about a week or so. I want to make this space cat sanctuary...so maybe I need to add a cat walk shelf situation.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Do you have a Da Bird toy? I have never heard of a cat that doesn't like those. Even my one guy who seriously doesn't like to play does like the Da Bird . You just need a little room to swing it around up high and low because it really acts like a bird so you need to be able to let it mimic one. It's on a fishing pole like device and line perhaps 6 feet long when unfurled.

Also, since cats really prefer to hunt their food, have you tried using a food puzzle. Take a look at some of these: http://foodpuzzlesforcats.com/wet-food-puzzles If you're handy, you can probably make your own, and these work for wet food as well as dry treats.

How about a laser pointer? How you tried one of those. What i try to do is hide a couple of treats when they are napping, then bring out the laser pointer and while using it, lead them to a treat every now and then so they aren't always disappointed that they never catch anything. But neither of my cats are really into balls or anything resembling a ball, and I can't keep them occupied for very long with anything except the Da Bird. And they have toy boxes both upstairs and downstairs. Here's another article for your to peruse: How To Choose The Best Toy For Your Cat – Cat Articles

Homemade toys are sometimes the best...paper bags, wadded up paper for them to bat around, grograin ribbon tied to a stick, the plastic rng from a milk jug. I stick under a sheet or large sheet of paper (as long as YOU wiggle it around)

Another thought is clicker training. I've heard many cats actually enjoy being trained as it stimulates their brains.

Also, what about harness training so you can take her outside for walks?

As far as the size of your living accommodation, I'm sure there are people living in Studio Apartments with cats, so I really wouldn't worry about that. AND, most people are gone for 8 hours at work, so leaving her to go downstairs to work probably wouldnt hurt her. You could always leave a cat video on for her, but cats normally sleep at least 16 hours a day anyway.

 

[Time 2 Recognize]

Sorry I dissapeared. The morning after I posted this, Echo hurt her back leg somehow. Woke up to her not wanting breakfast and then growling and holding her back leg up. She's indoor only and my place is small, so not sure what she did. Vet visit to get x-rays early afternoon (which involved having to sedate her) showed no damage to bones and vet said it was a sprain, hopefully mild since the leg felt fine and had no swelling. So thus the journey of keeping her in my bedroom, and then in two pet pens I combined (so she had a chill out/eating area and then a litter box/scratch pad area) ensued and it's been a whole thing since then. She is peeing more frequently again, though the clumps haven't been anything less than a smaller average size past few days. I'm still giving her d mannose and have given a few drops of non-alcohol corn-silk extract I saw someone else recommend elsewhere in the forums. Obviously being confined most of the day is not making her super happy. I got a feliway diffuser and have been playing calming cat music like all day to try and help. Could some of the extra litter box visits be out of boredom? She usually has 5-7 hours between go's, but sometimes it's been 2-3 hours between pee's the past couple days. Not teeny tiny though, like I said the smallest has been smaller but still average size.

I'm so exhausted. I just want her to be better and doing well on a diet. I did cut out Holistic select this past week, because of all the brands I've fed her it has the most plant matter ingredients (apple powder? Fennel and blueberry/papaya/pomegranate powders. I assume some are for digestion or enzymes and in small amount, but since she's having issues I figured why not cut it out.

I also am wondering if her litter has a role in this. I used grass seed litter, and since she is on the fluffy side, she does get some caught in her paw now and again, or licks a granule off the floor since it tracks. I'm wondering if this could be part of the issue. I tested her first urination pH today with a clean box, Kit for Cat non-absorbant litter, and pH strips from Amazon (I'm looking for others because I have a hard time reading the results on the ones I got). I'm fairly certain her reading was at 6.75. So still too high. And that is having given her a 1/4 tsp dollop of methagel on her paw last night.

I'm hoping after this weekend or by mid next week, I can have her out more. She did a nutty jump today when I had her out, and seemed fine. But later when I let her out for dinner, limped a few steps. Then back to fine again. So still some healing to do. *Sigh*

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Did the Vet say to confine her for a sprain?

I don't think she would be going to the litterbox out of boredom and actually urinating. It's possible she might go there and just dig, but I don't really think so. And from what I've read, I really don't think any wet food would cause her PH to be high, but I just had a thought about her water. Is the water where you live very hard? Where Ilive it's extremely hard, so we only use filtered water for drinking, and that includes what we give to the cats, including what we add to their food. Filtered water only. IF you happen to use tap water and it's hard, that could be effecting her PH! It may have taken awhile (perhaps her lifetime so far, but it's a possibililty) Just a thought

As to the litter, it's natural, and I don't guess she's consuming that much in her daily grooming, so wouldn't imagine that's the problem, but you might run it past your Vet. Just give them a call.

One thing I might say though is that cats are very good at picking up on emotions, and you already said you are feeling very anxious about her. Try not to worry so much and things might settle down. Truly . I know that's easier said than done, but kick back, have a cup of tea and tell yourself she's going to be okay

 

[Time 2 Recognize]

mrsgreenjeens: I actually use filtered water for her food! So that should be a non-issue I think? I still have to inquire with the vet about the grass-seed litter. But the thing is I don't really want to use clay, do want something that clumps, and other "natural" options still all are some form of plant matter. Like walnut shell or something.

Ok, so here is a recap on whats been going on this month and where things are at. As I type this, Echo is going crazy kitty with the zoomies around the apartment. So she is feeling well. I actually had to confine her to the bedroom, because she is so zoom-ie that she took it too far and clearly irritated the leg! Ugh! I want so bad to be able to let her free roam like normal, but we're probably another week or two out from that.

February: After having a UTI in January that was treated with Orbax for 14 days, we retest her urine to make sure infection was gone. It was, but her pH was a bit high at 7, and she has some (not many I was told) struvite crystals.

Day after getting those results, she hurt her back leg somehow, was limping, growling and hissing So that was another vet trip with sedation to get x-rays. Bone's all fine, leg feels fine to vet and we conclude it's a sprain. Next two weeks, I have had her in the bedroom. For 10 days or so, I kept her in a duel pet-pen set up (one had her letterbox in it, one was her comfy zone). This was mainly for when I could not monitor her in the bedroom, because the moment her leg felt ok she was jumping around and ends up limping. My vet barely said anything to me about dealing with the sprain, but researching online and seeing it as being strongly recommended so they can heal is why I did this. I got a feliway diffuser to help make the room extra welcoming and played relaxing kitty music from Youtube most of the day as well.

About 4 days post sedation, I notice her urinating more. Normally goes 4-5 times, but she was going 6-7 times and the volume seemed more. Since the UTI, I've monitored her box like a hawk. I scoop nearly every time within hour after she goes and have notes on when she went. No straining or complaining, she was just going more often in average size clumps. I don't know what to make of it, but by day 2-3 start to worry about her kidneys honestly! Of course this was over a weekend...but 4 days into that situation, she goes back to normal going 4 or 5 times. Normal volume. Still, I'm able to get morning urine samples and end up bringing that to 2 vets for testing, because I want to make sure results are a) accurate and b) consistent (I have major trust issues with vets). Her results come back all good. pH is 6.5, USG 1.36 (all wet food diet + I add some water to her 3 meals. Vets both said this number was ok?), no more crystals. Both veterinary offices say the results are good, though our regular vet still would like to see her pH lower. So I am adding some Lotus pre-made raw to her meals to see how that goes. I think "great! ok! I can stop panicking and relax. Little lady is ok".

That was yesterday. Then last night, she goes to the bathroom around 10:50pm. Ok cool. I'm talking with my friend who is over and Echo was complaining for attention with no avail. Then she goes back and goes at 11:20pm! I go check, and it's a very small amount. Now I'm worried/confused. Labs from 24 hours prior say all good. Then today. I end up feeding her late, at noon (usually do at 10am, but my friend was having a hard day and we ended up talking until 3am last night and I slept in past alarms. Anyway, so she eats at noon and then goes to bathroom. All fine there. Then she goes to the bathroom again two hours later at 2pm.

Could last night have been an attention/behavioral thing? And the 2 hour pee be because I fed her late and she was just going after processing breakfast?? I haven't checked the box for the 2pm pee, because my boyfriend thinks that maybe because I'm cleaning her box often, she's either going back in to "mark" in a sense, or going for attention like last night may have been. I AM trying not to stress. Super glad her results were clean and good. But I'm so confused about what is going on with her. Her box is still in my bedroom in the pen set up (open access of course, it's just easier to keep clean this way) because I am still keeping her in bedroom at night, or like now when she's zoomie-ing too hardcore. Maybe if I set up her letterbox situation like it normally is, in the other room in it's usual old spot, that will get things back to normal?

Other thing is that the Feliway diffuser is plugged relatively near to her bedroom-box set up. Could that be complicating things?? I'm super confused. I and she are very over going to the vets, but i don't know if this is something where blood-work would be in order? I was also honestly worried the d Mannose was hurting her somehow. I read it can possibly damage kidneys if too high a dose and I was doing 1/8 tsp 2-3 times a day for 10 days of the NOW brands powder based off what others suggested online for dose. But I'm worried that, or that + having been under sedation maybe caused an issue.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

I think having your friend over last night and being off schedule is probably the issue. I would give it another few days to see if she gets back on course for HER. And I don't think the Feliway would be causing any issues, no matter where it's plugged in. I'm not aware of that causing issues anyway. If I were you, I'd just try not to hover so much. FYI, some days I will find NOTHING in the litterbox, and other days there will be three or four clumps of pee (I have two cats currently. My cats are older, and the older they get, the less they pee, but the larger the clumps, or so I've heard) Anyway, on the days where there is nothing, I make a note to myself to not panic and just note if there is nothing the next morning, to call the Vet. There is always at least two clumps the next morning! Usually they go into the box right after I have checked it to scoop it out on those "empty" days, but not always. What I'm saying is that they aren't on a specific schedule. We scoop twice a day and it's never consistent.

If she stops urinating, or starts urinating outside the box, that's when I'd get her back to the Vet. Or, naturally, if she seems in distress when urinating, but normally they will stop using the box when that happens. Oh, and if I didn't say so earlier, I don't see why your current litter wouldn't be just fine. It's so natural that I can't see how on earth it couldn't be, but if you think it might be an issue, just give your Vet a call.

 

[Time 2 Recognize]

If I were you, I'd just try not to hover so much. FYI, some days I will find NOTHING in the litterbox, and other days there will be three or four clumps of pee (I have two cats currently. My cats are older, and the older they get, the less they pee, but the larger the clumps, or so I've heard) Anyway, on the days where there is nothing, I make a note to myself to not panic and just note if there is nothing the next morning, to call the Vet. There is always at least two clumps the next morning! Usually they go into the box right after I have checked it to scoop it out on those "empty" days, but not always. What I'm saying is that they aren't on a specific schedule. We scoop twice a day and it's never consistent.

Thank you. I'm used to her being pretty consistent at 4x maybe 5x a day. She was for about a month or so anyway, I wasn't actively tracking or paying all that much attention before the December ordeal honestly. Today she went 6x. And she went once at 10pm. I fed her dinner at 11:30pm and cleaned her box while she was eating, and then she went and peed again. Smaller average, but still more than makes sense to me given that she had just gone what looks to have been a solid average amount 1.5 hours earlier. It just seems strange?

I guess what I'm wondering is (if anyone out there knows?) her recent USG read out at 1.35. Which is within normal, but could she have some sort of kidney issue and still have a normal USG reading? Her reading prior to that was 1.2 something couple weeks back, but was during the day after a big meal with 2 tbs of added water to the wet food. Her first urinalysis, back when the UTI was detected, was 1.49 I think. Don't recall hydration of that reading, but I think she was on meals 2x a day then vs 3x which I switched to the next day. I know that USG number can change depending on various factors, but I just worry since she seems to be having what to me, is increased volume or frequency of emptying her bladder.

I'll probably email the vet tomorrow, just to explain this and ask if she has any thoughts. Her blood work back in January was good. Creatinine and BUN were within lower 3rd end of good reference values.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

I don't know anything about USG, don't even know what it is and can't find it on google. Think emailing your Vet is a good idea since you are so worried

 

[FeebysOwner]

As you mentioned, USG (Urine Specific Gravity) can vary from test to test and not necessarily mean anything. From what I know of the results, the numbers you cite above are actually good. But, it is that reading, in combination with other readings that relate to the kidneys that can make a difference in what it means. Given this, I think it is a good idea that you ask the vet to explain it for you, if for no other than to put your mind at ease.