Uncontrollable diarrhea???

[tortiebaby]

To start, in the summer my cat tested positive for giardia. She wasn't showing any symptoms or signs of anything being wrong, but one of my sugar gliders got giardia and we couldn't figure out how, so we tested the cats to see if one of them may have given it to them(at the time we have the gliders cages in the livingroom and the cats liked to sleep on top of them

).

Well, she was treated for giardia with Flagyll(Metranidazole). After the giardia was treated I noticed she started getting diarrhea, so I took her back to the vet and had a fecal check done. She was negative for giardia, but was LOADED with roundworms, which my vet thought was extremely odd since she didn't have any in her previous fecal check.

So, we treated her for the roundworms...

It was about a month-long treatment, so I waited til the treatment was done and then gave her a couple extra weeks to "recover", thinking maybe her tummy was just upset from all the parasites and the meds, but her diarrhea STILL hadn't gone away.

Keep in mind, this isn't just diarrhea...it's UNCONTROLLABLE diarrhea! She'll be walking along and then all of the sudden it will sound like she's passing gas and then when she walks away there's a small puddle of diarrhea on the floor! It's REALLY nasty!

Anyways...

The vet did another fecal check and found nothing wrong. She concluded that the problem must be food allergies. Sooo...we got some new food, SLOOOWWWLLLYYY switched the foods, then gave her a while to see if anything would change.

No change.

We took her back to the vet and got another fecal check done and still no change, so the vet gave me some anti-diarrhea meds for her to see if they'd help.

They didn't help.

So, now we're at the point where the vet isn't sure what's wrong with her and I'm reaching the breaking point because about 90% of the main part of my house is carpet and it's all COMPLETELY ruined. Since the cat is pooping everywhere the other cats have decided that THEY want to go to the bathroom everywhere too, so now I've got about 10 new piles of diarrhea everywhere(even on the kitchen counters and the table sometimes!!!), a few regular poops from the other cats, and pee galore! I'm at my wits end!

Does ANYONE have any idea what it might be and how we can fix it?!

Bestia(the cat that's sick) is almost 5 years old and I caught her as a feral kitten. She's really small(4 lbs) and is obviously inbred...she only has about 4 teeth(like a kitten whose teeth haven't grown in yet, aside from their baby canines). A friend of mine who breeds cats and has alot of cats of her own thinks it might have something to do with her age and the in-breeding, perhaps a genetic immune deficiency. I don't know and my vet isn't sure either.

Also, due to a TON of vet bills I had to pay last year(between our new dog having parvo, the gliders getting giardia and all that entails, and Bestia being sick...), hubby just recently got a job after having gone a year without one, and my only working car breaking down...I don't have any money, so I can't afford to do alot of tests on Bestia, otherwise I would, trust me! I've had her since hubby and I first got married and she's very special to me. Rehoming her isn't an option either because of 1)how much she means to me and 2)she doesn't trust anyone but me and to anyone else she's still feral...it would be kinder to put her to sleep then to rehome her!

Please help!

 

[addiebee]

Wow.... making several suggestions here to do at once.

Did her stool firm up while she was on the metronidizole and then back to diarrhea once she was off of it?

It could be that the giardia is still there but in low levels... or it could be a lesser known parasite like T Foetus. Or Food intolerance. I would try the KISS approach first.... treat the diarrhea... and make sure she is not dehydrated from all that pooping.

You can do that by pulling up the skin on the scruff of her neck into a V shape and let go.. if it slides back quickly... she is ok... if it is slow to recover... get her to the vet to be checked .. b/c she may need sub q fluids. If you are the least bit concerned.. .back to the vet.


Get some really good probiotic - I would go with fortiflora... cats really like the taste. You sprinkle it on her food once a day.

Get a really good enzymatic cleaner like Nok-Out or Anti Icky Poo... check online for this stuff ... not sold in stores as far as I know... get a black light to check for pee... it glows in the dark. AND CLEAN THE CARPET... I MEAN SOAK IT WITH THIS STUFF ...even if you clean the cats can still smell the "marker" and will go in that spot. So you need this kind of treatment.

What is Bestia eating? It may very well be IBD related food intolerances. When people have sick kittens or cats with tummy issues it is often recommended to feed them plain boiled chicken and cooked white rice with some of the plain chicken water mixed in. She may need a grain free or limited ingredient diet.

Get some Dr. Elsey's Cat Attract litter or litter additive and put it in the cats pans... this stuff does work.

That's all I can think of for now....

 

[tortiebaby]

Originally Posted by AddieBee

Did her stool firm up while she was on the metronidizole and then back to diarrhea once she was off of it?

That's the weird part...she didn't have any diarrhea when she has the giardia! She didn't show any symptoms of there even being anything wrong, but when the vet checked her fecal she said she was LOADED with Giardia. She didn't get it until AFTER she was treated for the giardia.

Originally Posted by AddieBee

It could be that the giardia is still there but in low levels... or it could be a lesser known parasite like T Foetus. Or Food intolerance. I would try the KISS approach first.... treat the diarrhea... and make sure she is not dehydrated from all that pooping.

We have done additional fecal checks, and no giardia has shown, but I plan to continue checking every few weeks til we can get this fixed, just in case, since giardia sheds in cycles. As for the food tolerance, Bestia's always been sensitive to different foods and has always gotten really bad gas, but she's never gotten sick like this. The only food she ever did really good on, as crazy as it sounds, was the Maxxima(I think that's the name) cat food by Walmart. However, I can't find that food any more. :\\ All of the high-quality lamb and rice foods, like Nature's Variety, just make her worse, her tummy only seems to be able to handle the cheap stuff. We had her on Purina All-Stages, but down-graded to Friskies Indoor to see if that might help at all. It didn't, it just turned her poo green.

Originally Posted by AddieBee

You can do that by pulling up the skin on the scruff of her neck into a V shape and let go.. if it slides back quickly... she is ok... if it is slow to recover... get her to the vet to be checked .. b/c she may need sub q fluids. If you are the least bit concerned.. .back to the vet.

I'll check her. I have a bag of sub-q fluids in the fridge in case of an emergency with the sugar gliders, so I can use that if I need to.

Originally Posted by AddieBee

Get some really good probiotic - I would go with fortiflora... cats really like the taste. You sprinkle it on her food once a day.

Where do I get the probiotic? I've only seen the Bene-Bac at the pet store.

Originally Posted by AddieBee

Get a really good enzymatic cleaner like Nok-Out or Anti Icky Poo... check online for this stuff ... not sold in stores as far as I know... get a black light to check for pee... it glows in the dark. AND CLEAN THE CARPET... I MEAN SOAK IT WITH THIS STUFF ...even if you clean the cats can still smell the "marker" and will go in that spot. So you need this kind of treatment.

Been there, done that, lol. I have a black-light and it doesn't work.

It only shows a couple places where the pee is dry, but not where it's wet. I've gotta sniff it out for the most part. The problem is that even if I clean it up 10 times a day, Bestia poops faster than I can find and clean it. With 4 cats it's hard to keep up... It's gotten to the point where I don't ever want people coming over any more because it smells HORRIBLE!

Originally Posted by AddieBee

What is Bestia eating? It may very well be IBD related food intolerances. When people have sick kittens or cats with tummy issues it is often recommended to feed them plain boiled chicken and cooked white rice with some of the plain chicken water mixed in. She may need a grain free or limited ingredient diet.

See above... I'll try the chicken and rice idea(with added probiotics if I can find some!). What about plain yogurt? Would that help as well? I use it and recommend it alot for gliders when they go to new homes because it helps to prevent a build-up of bad bacteria due to stress. Also, if it works, then is there anything I need to add in the future if I end up feeding it long-term? Surely she needs more then just chicken and rice to survive?

Originally Posted by AddieBee

Get some Dr. Elsey's Cat Attract litter or litter additive and put it in the cats pans... this stuff does work.

I saw some of it online, I'll see if I can convince hubby to give me to money to buy it.

THANK YOU! I was starting to give up hope, but you've given me a ton of things to look into! I'm hopeful that maybe the probiotics and chicken/rice will do a ton of good!

 

[addiebee]

Hey, TB. I feel your pain. I had a poopy, dribbly cat. Frankly, if she was a-symptomatic with the Giardia, not sure why she was treated.

Panacur would have been another good choice ... yes.. you can give it to cats.

Your vet should have Fortiflora - it is not cheap... best place to get it is on Amazon... but sounds like you need it ASAP. http://www.amazon.com/FortiFlora-FEL...7143490&sr=1-2

It does work like a charm for antibiotic induced runs!

The Benebac for small animals like the sugar gliders... look at the syringe or container.. it is likely the same stuff for cats, too. In fact, one member on here has gotten it in the ferret and small animal section of the pet store. The one you DONT want is for non-mammals. Different flora.

Can you recall the ingredient list for the Maxximal.. I know Walmart isn't selling it anymore... PM TCS member sharky ... or post in the nutrition section. She "patrols" there.

Ask there for feeding advice. It has helped me with my pooer and my puker!

You may have to bite the bullet and clean the whole carpet... I am not sure what would work best... I know many of the rental steamers you can get pet enzyme cleaner solution... not sure which one is best. I think someone else had a thread going recently on the best carpet cleaner ....

I just used my BF's Bissel Little Green and the extra strength stuff for the puke. My pooper usu. made it to the pan. or the bathroom floor... which of course is tile. Whew!

The chicken-rice treatment is short term.. .a few days at most, just to settle the GI tract. Like eating soda crackers and ginger ale when you have a tummy upset. If you have a food processor you can blend the chicken, cooking water and rice into homemade cat food.

The gas and the runs ---- does sound like her GI tract does NOT like the food. She is not adequately digesting something or some-THINGs in the food. Finding the culprit is the trick.

Ooo. Nature's Variety... my boys had a bad time with that. I had gotten a bag of Instinct through a rescue I volunteered with.. gave one of them terrible diarrhea. And that was with mixing it in with their regular stuff in a 1:3 ratio. Sooo... not a fan... their wet made another puke.... so it is not on my good list....

Yogurt could work.. I have had that suggested. But I think the probiotics have a better track record... not all cats will eat yogurt. Mine won't. Some people use plain canned cooked pumpkin. It didn't work in my house. The theory here is that the pumpkin is high in water soluble fiber and soaks up the excess liquid in the gut.

Hope this helps. Like I said, I would start a post in the Nutrition sub forum.. and see what kind of help you can get there on the food end of things.

 

[otto]

I agree with the probiotic and another change in food. find a food that doesn't contain any of the known allergens she's already had, or try her on a prescription food like Hills i/d or more drastically z/d.

I have a friend who had this problem I've forgotten the food she found that was the answer but will ask her and report back.

Poor little thing it must be mortifying to her to be having all these accidents.

 

[strange_wings]

If no one can find a complete ingredient list for any of the Maxximum Nutrition foods I can go dig around for some empty bags in my shop building and list at least a couple of the formulas. As far as that food went, while it had corn, it was one of the cheapest no dye, no by-product, no animal digest, wheat or soy foods you could get.
I suggest that the OP at the very least finds a food that matches in that.

 

[shanynne]

For the poop, I swear by Nature's Miracle. It *really* does work and more importantly it will get *all* and I mean *all* of those poop stains out!


With a wet paper towel, first wipe up excess poop, then shake bottle and pour or spray and work in it really well with your fingers so that the product "foams up" (I always wear gloves when doing that).


That's it, nothing more to do, seriously!


There have been the odd time where the foam turned brown. When that happened I just wiped up that excess foam and reapplied. I'm telling you, I have cleaned up the worst poop stains with that stuff. It really does work.


Hey, about two weeks ago, I had ordered some barbecue wings. Well, I accidentally dropped the entire thing on my carpet!! You can imagine what it looked like, a huge bright orange stain. Well, I pulled out the Nature's Miracle, used it the same way I would to clean up a poop or vomit stain and guess what? There is NO stain at all! Not one bit.


Seriously, give it a try, I doubt you will be disappointed and once you work it in, that's you are done! I am *never* without that stuff.


On a separate note, I do hope that your baby gets to feeling better soon, I can sympathize. One of mine Rascal has IBS so I'm always having to check him after he goes ... heavy sigh ... cleaning his butt is not pleasant, but poor guy, it's not his fault and at least he's very patient when I do.


I have found though that food has been the culprit in his case. I now have both my boys on Nature's Variety Instinct Rabbit meal Formula and the canned is New School Pyramid Old School Nutrition Before Grain. Both are 100% Grain Free and that has made a huge difference. The diarrhea or soft poops are a lot less than before.


The Instinct has a freeze dried coating and both my boys switched themselves onto it, which was quite a shocker for me, especially coming from Samson, my "don't you even think of changing my food" cat.


Of course, always check with your vet, but if he/she is recommending something like Science Diet, I would not follow that advice. But there are lots of others here that can also give you some excellent nutrition advice. Like for example, raw feeding. If your cat will take to it, raw feeding is the best!


Anyways sorry for the long post. I sure hope it was helpful!

*
*

 

[tortiebaby]

Thanks AddieBee. I'll try and get that probiotic powder!

The vet gave me Pro-Pectalin. Is that a probiotic? If so, it didn't help.

Maybe the kind you suggested will help though.

I don't know the ingredients of Maxximum. I sure wish Walmart still made it though. *sigh*

As for cleaning the whole carpet, as of right now it's not an option...hubby won't let me waste the $50 until Bestia is better cause he said there's no point in wasting the money when Bestia's just going to poop all over everywhere again the second it's clean. :\\ So, I've been hand-scrubbing everything and soaking it all in Nature's Miracle. I've learned pretty quick NOT to clean up the wet poo though, cause that just makes it worse. I have to wait til it's dry, then scrape it off and clean the spot it was on, otherwise I end up up an even BIGGER poop smear and it's all squished into the carpet.

 

[addiebee]

Originally Posted by TortieBaby

Thanks AddieBee. I'll try and get that probiotic powder!

The vet gave me Pro-Pectalin. Is that a probiotic? If so, it didn't help.

Maybe the kind you suggested will help though.

I don't know the ingredients of Maxximum. I sure wish Walmart still made it though. *sigh*

As for cleaning the whole carpet, as of right now it's not an option...hubby won't let me waste the $50 until Bestia is better cause he said there's no point in wasting the money when Bestia's just going to poop all over everywhere again the second it's clean. :\\ So, I've been hand-scrubbing everything and soaking it all in Nature's Miracle. I've learned pretty quick NOT to clean up the wet poo though, cause that just makes it worse. I have to wait til it's dry, then scrape it off and clean the spot it was on, otherwise I end up up an even BIGGER poop smear and it's all squished into the carpet.

I looked up Propectalin.. it's Kaopectate with some probiotics. I would still go with a probiotic/slow transition of food to something that agrees with her combo.... With my case, Archie's poo didn't really start to improve until I changed to a good grain free dry... and was WITH using a probiotic...

 

[strange_wings]

Originally Posted by TortieBaby

I don't know the ingredients of Maxximum. I sure wish Walmart still made it though. *sigh*

What color bag was it?
I don't really know what the deal with it is. The local plant that use to make it for Walmart stopped doing that particular product, supposedly switching production to different plants. I haven't heard anything other than that.

 

[tortiebaby]

Originally Posted by strange_wings

What color bag was it?
I don't really know what the deal with it is. The local plant that use to make it for Walmart stopped doing that particular product, supposedly switching production to different plants. I haven't heard anything other than that.

The green one. I think it was the Indoor formula.

 

[strange_wings]

Originally Posted by TortieBaby

The green one. I think it was the Indoor formula.

Really? That was the poorer quality one of the bunch (had soy, alfalfa, and cellulose). It was also originally called their hairball formula.

Ingredients:
Chicken, chicken meal, corn gluten meal, corn meal, soybean meal, powdered cellulose, brewers rice, ground flaxseed, poultry fat preserved with mixed tocopherols, natural chicken flavor, dried egg product, dried beet pulp, brewers dried yeast, sodium bisulfate, fish meal, alfalfa nutrient concentrate, potassium chloride, salt, L-lysine, choline chloride, taurine, de-methionine, L-carnitine, inulin, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, maganese proteinate, vitamin E supplement, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, zinc oxide, copper sulfate, niacin, vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, manganous oxide, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement, menadione sodium bisufite complex, sodium selenite, folic acid, calcium lodate, vitamin D3 supplement, cobalt carbonate.

Crude Protein, min..................38%
Crude fat, min.........................10%
Crude fat, max........................14.50%
Crude fiber, max.....................7.50%
Moisture, max.........................12%
Taurine, min.............................0.15%
Omega 6 fatty acids, min........2%
Omega 3 fatty acids, min........0.2%
L-caritine, min..........................80mg/kg

(typing all the vit. supplements out is a pain!)

IMO, if she did well on a food such as this, don't be afraid to try a vet script food like Hills to get this straightened out. If you want foods that aren't super high end and rich, but are better quality - look at Petsmart's Authority or even Nutro after discussing them with your vet.

 

[tortiebaby]

Originally Posted by AddieBee

Frankly, if she was a-symptomatic with the Giardia, not sure why she was treated.

Panacur would have been another good choice ... yes.. you can give it to cats.

Sorry, I missed this before...

I breed sugar gliders and although Giardia is relatively harmless to cats dogs most of the time, for a glider it can become deadly. It's also EXTREMELY contagious and since I have so many gliders I couldn't risk having an animal in the house with Giardia. As it is, I spent a fortune last year having to test, treat, and re-treat all of my gliders with Flagyll and Panacur. Those snap tests ain't cheap($40 a pop) and neither is the Flagyll! It also put my reputation as a breeder at stake because I couldn't send my babies to their new homes with making 110% sure that they didn't have giardia.

So, yeah, that's why we treated Bestia for the giardia. Although, right about now, I'm starting to regret that decision! *bangs head on wall*

 

[strange_wings]

Originally Posted by TortieBaby

It also put my reputation as a breeder at stake because I couldn't send my babies to their new homes with making 110% sure that they didn't have giardia.

O/T, but there are a lot of small exotic breeders out there that don't do this and are only out to make as much profit as they can (which is never much if one is breeding correctly). It's great to know that you're one of the good ones!

 

[tortiebaby]

Profit? What's that?

I was FINALLY on the road to getting back some of what I'd put into my gliders last year and then Bestia just HAAADDDD to get giardia!

Now I think I'll be in the red far past my gliders' breeding years!

Honestly though, I don't care, I LOOVVVVVEEEEE having and breeding gliders!

Hmmm....it's been ages since I've posted an update on all my crazy gliders. I should probably go do that.

lol

 

[addiebee]

Originally Posted by TortieBaby

Profit? What's that?

I was FINALLY on the road to getting back some of what I'd put into my gliders last year and then Bestia just HAAADDDD to get giardia!

Now I think I'll be in the red far past my gliders' breeding years!

Honestly though, I don't care, I LOOVVVVVEEEEE having and breeding gliders!

Hmmm....it's been ages since I've posted an update on all my crazy gliders. I should probably go do that.

lol

They're such cute little creatures. Are they marsupials???? Trying to remember...

 

[tortiebaby]

Yes, they're marsupials.

Itty, butty, teeny weeny, adorable marsupials! lol

As proof(I know I don't need to prove it...I just wanted to show off 2 of my favorite pics, heehee), here are pics of 2 of my girls with joeys in-pouch:

Adore about to stick her head in her pouch and clean her babies

Rosa doing a not-so-good job of keeping her joeys in her pouch(those are their legs and tails sticking out), lol

 

[tortiebaby]

Here you go AddieBee: http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...94#post2828394