U-stew, ezcomplete, tcfeline, balenceIT

[Azazel]

this is our long-term diet with the addition of vitamin-mineral complexes, cats in excellent shape, and meat in stews, of course, much more than vegetables

Do you add taurine and a calcium source?
Cats are obligate carnivores and can’t properly digest vegetables. That’s why most homemade feeders don’t include them in their recipes.

 

[Koveshnikov]

calcium and taurine are essential ingredients! as for vegetables, our cats eat them even raw and separately from meat

 

[Azazel]

calcium and taurine are essential ingredients! as for vegetables, our cats eat them even raw and separately from meat

I'm just wondering what your sources of calcium and taurine are?

It's not a question of whether they will eat the vegetables. Cats eat lots of things that have no particular purpose. It's the fact that they are carnivores, which by definition means that they do no have the digestive system to properly digest them.

 

[Koveshnikov]

Now it is Polidex Multivitum. If vegetables were harmful to the health of cats, they would be sick, but it is not! The cats are in great shape!

 

[Azazel]

Polidex Multivitum

When I look it up the ingredients are in a different language and I can't read it. It's really important to balance calcium-phosphorus ratios though and to ensure that cats are receiving a nutritionally balanced diet with home-prepared meals.

The problem with the argument that 'if veggies were bad they would be sick' is that (1) cats hide illness for a long time so you probably wouldn't know if they are nutritionally deficient or sick until it is bad (2) lots of cats and people live long lives on unhealthy foods and drugs - that doesn't make it healthy and (3) it may or may not cause your cats to get sick but lack of sickness does not mean that your cats are actually taking any value from eating the veggies or that they won't acquire long-term health issues down the road.

Plus, whether veggies are appropriate foods for cats or not is not really up for debate. Given that they are obligatve carnivores and we know that the physiology of carnivores is such that they cannot properly digest plants, we know that veggies are not appropriate for cats.

 

[SpecterOhPossum]

Now it is Polidex Multivitum. If vegetables were harmful to the health of cats, they would be sick, but it is not! The cats are in great shape!

You might honestly want to look into using U-stew or ezcomplete

 

[Azazel]

You might honestly want to look into using U-stew or ezcomplete

I'm guessing they live in Europe and cannot obtain these premixes.

 

[SpecterOhPossum]

I hope you are not still feeding the diet you described above as it is low in essential nutrients and has too many veggies.

I was so confused at first, I thought you were quoting me and I was like "hey! you gave the green light!" lol I need coffee..

 

[Koveshnikov]

This drug was sent to us by Russian friends for a test in exchange for Canina Barfer’s Best. Sorry, I forgot about another language! In principle, these complexes are not much different from each other. And we will think about vegetables!

 

[SpecterOhPossum]

I'm guessing they live in Europe and cannot obtain these premixes.

Ah, makes sense.

 

[Azazel]

This drug was sent to us by Russian friends for a test in exchange for Canina Barfer’s Best. Sorry, I forgot about another language! In principle, these complexes are not much different from each other. And we will think about vegetables!

If you can translate the ingredients in it and the amounts then we can give you some advice on it. The folks on these forums are really knowledgeable about feline nutrition and are always happy to help.

 

[Koveshnikov]

Polydex Multivitum in 1 tablet contains Vitamin A - 160 IU, Vitamin D - 6 IU, Vitamin E - 2 mg, Vitamin B1 - 0.03 mg, Vitamin B5 - 0.4 mg, Vitamin B6 - 0.4 mg, Vitamin B12 - 1.4 μg, vitamin C - 2 mg, biotin - 0.2 mg, derivative with TSH - 3 mg, taurine - 6 mg, calcium - 20 mg, iron - 0.3 mg, manganese - 0.01 mg, iodine - 0.01 mg. 200 tablets are packaged in plastic jars.

 

[Koveshnikov]

We and our cats are supporters of natural nutrition.

 

[Azazel]

How much of the tablet do you use and with what proportion of meat/organs/bones?

 

[Koveshnikov]

Оne tablet per kilogram of weight.

 

[lisahe]

It's this one, right, K Koveshnikov , the one labeled for cats? I'm a Russian translator and am not too familiar with jargon for pet food stuff but it looks/sounds like this one's intended as a seasonal and/or episodic supplement, though I don't quite understand why they'd label it that way since cats need a full set of nutrients all year round! I'm not a specialist (спец!) on cat supplements and vitamin needs but it does look like this has at least most of the basics.

In any case, the reality of this is that it sounds like your friends only sent you a limited supply of this, is that right? And you're not in Russia now, right? (Since you said the friends sent you the Polidex...) If you're in the US, SpecterOhPossum 's idea of using a supplement for food is a great one: it makes the whole thing much easier, with no pills -- the supplements are easy to measure to fit the amount of meat you're using. They can be used with cooked or raw meat. I use two different supplements (Alnutrin and EZ Complete) for cooked meat. They make totally complete meals so you can be sure your cat's getting everything just from the food. And our cats really love them! They're also pretty natural, more natural than the pills: the calcium in the supplements I use, for example, comes from egg shell. And some nutrients come from liver.

I also have to agree with A Azazel about tossing the vegetables! They're great for us but cats are total carnivores and potatoes (my personal favorite!) even make one of our cats sick.

Anyway, just ask if you need more suggestions!

 

[SpecterOhPossum]

Оne tablet per kilogram of weight.

ALSO! you could try to get one of your amercan / foreign friends to send you a premix by sending them the money and having them ship for it! Just a spur of the moment idea!!

 

[SpecterOhPossum]

How do you make your home-made more flavorful? I do cooked with u-stew and chicken thigh meat & the chicken broths concentrate but it's still very boring; sometimes I have to coax her into eating it with sardine juice, but rarely. It's gotten better with the concentrated broth from me boiling the chicken down to a stew-consistency; but what else could I add? Too much egg yolk/egg will cause diarrhea so that's off the table. (learnt the hard way!) U-stew said to avoid mixing meats.. Which is what I wanted to do originally to make it more like her tiki cat (the flavors like: chicken and duck, chicken and lamb, chicken and quail egg..)

now less importantly...something ive noticed...
I've been logging spec's behavior/health and bowel movements for a few weeks now because she's started having an issue of scarf and barfing; and minor constipation. (a day max) and some off days ever since I switched her off of her kibble due to out-right-refusing kibble when I introduced some sheba into her diet.. Which was for the best, I figured out of course. But then those issues showed up.
..HOwever, I stopped feeding sheba; switched to Miko (both are used with tiki cat, cause theyre both pretty cheap and low cal) and the scarf and barfing DRAMATICALLY decreased. I'm talking .. Once week or something. Which I started to curve with very tiny portions at a time.

..But now that home made with u-stew is in her rotation, she can eat more than a handful (triple of what I'd do her teeny portions before) and keep it all down. Now the constipation is going away noticeably too, she's pooped three days in a row; which hasn't happened for weeks. (usually two days, skip one day, next day) and she's had less off-days, and more energy. I believe tiki and sheba are using bone in their recipes because it is a teeeeeeeny bit gritty, especially towards the bottom of tiki. I like them, but.. I think that's what's been clogging up my Specter-Oh-Possum; aka Spec. But the throwing up is whats making me go ... Bone wouldn't cause puking alone, right? Why is home made making her poop normally; and no more puking? Full bowel movements too, matching the #2 on the poop chart
Something tells me there's some weirdness in those recipes, but I'm unsure. Not that such would surprise me. She's also back up to her goal weight, 8.4.
................Knock on wood.

 

[Furballsmom]

Why is home made making her poop normally; and no more puking?

I was feeding Poppy-cat some Primal in addition to his commercial canned (not home-made but still...) and his poops smelled less and were smaller. Cats are often able to digest and process home-made and raw more completely.

If you'll allow me to say so, I think that if it were me I'd stay/continue with what you're doing, even if it seems boring to you. Since she isn't complaining much and you're able to fairly easily convince her to eat with a bit of sardine juice, and her digestive system appears to be a lot happier, good on you!

 

[lisahe]

I have no idea why U-Stew says not to mix meats: lots of commercial foods (raw, canned, dry, all modes!) do it all the time and I do it with homemade. I'm sure it could cause problems in some cats that are sensitive to certain proteins, but it sounds like Spec does fine with mixed-meat canned foods so I don't see how mixing meats in homemade food would be somehow worse!

Constipation can apparently cause vomiting (here's a vet-written article) if it's severe.