Two sweet Siamese kittens, What color are we?

[xolisy]

These are my two kittens. The first two pictures are of my 17 week old boy. I was told he was a chocolate point when I bought him but he looks very dark like a seal point to me. The thing is, I have read that seal points don't have pink paws and he has a pinkish tint to his paw pads. He also has longer, silkier hair than other Siamese I have seen. So, I did some more research and came up with Balinese (long haired Siamese) So, what is my sweet little boy? Thanks!!

The last two pictures are of my baby girl. She is only 8 weeks. I was told she was a chocolate point, does this look right? Thank you all!
 

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• xolisy
• Jun 29, 2013

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• xolisy
• Jun 29, 2013

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• xolisy
• Jun 29, 2013

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• xolisy
• Jun 29, 2013

 

[StefanZ]

May I ask which country are you in?

Who were the sellers?

Welcome to our Forums!

 

[maewkaew]

Re color:      That handsome young scamp of a boy kitten is absolutely a seal point .   The person who told you he is a chocolate point is clueless.    Nobody who knows pointed breeds would possibly look at this kitten and say he is a chocolate point.  Look how dark he is! 

And while many seal points  have  paw pads that are nearly black,  some do have a slightly reddish brown tint.   Plus, he's still quite young and   still developing color. His paw pads will probably get darker.  

 Actually,  I think they're probably both seal points.  The little girl looks to me more typical for  a young seal point than a chocolate point,   with the nose and ears being this dark at 8 weeks and her body color is also darker than an 8 week old chocolate point kitten would normally be.    But  I'm not 100% certain about her  since she is lighter  and  the tone of color in photos can be deceptive sometimes.   An older cat with this color could  be  a choc point  (that would be considered  too dark to be ideal   - but there are those borderline cats that are genetically chocolate point but are darker. ........but since she is just 8 weeks ,  that seems unlikely she would be this dark at that age if she were truly a chocolate point.  They tend to be slower to develop their color.  and really their point color is supposed to be more like milk chocolate and the body color is like cream . 

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• maewkaew
• Jun 29, 2013

For comparison  ( for both color and type/ breed )  here in the photo at right is a litter of pedigreed Siamese kittens ( this is the original type of Siamese ,  that are now also called Thai in TICA .  They have pedigrees going back to Siam/ Thailand  -- and this is how they still look in their native country.)   All the kittens are seal points except for the one in the front on the left is a chocolate point.   You can see that  the seal points vary in how dark they are.  but they're still seal points.   Do you see the difference in the chocolate point guy?     , Behind him,  lying against the mom's body,  is a seal point that is lighter than the other seals but got darker as he grew up, ) 

Re breed:

Your kittens are adorable,  sweet looking kittens.  But they are definitely  not purebred Siamese kittens  --   those coats alone are enough to tell that at a glance.    A genuine Siamese has a very short single coat.  In a young Siamese kitten the coat does look a little more fluffy than  it will as an adult or older kitten --   it doesn't lie down as flat to the body as it does later.  But it's not THIS fluffy looking as in your two kitties,  who look like they have a good deal of undercoat  --  and that did not come from Siamese! . 

There are a LOT of pointed kittens passed off as Siamese . Sometimes it is deliberate dishonesty  but  some people really do think all cats with this pattern  ( or all shorthair ones at least)  are " Siamese" .   They confuse the pattern and the breed.   ( I am not saying there is a good excuse for that ignorance if someone is deliberately breeding their cats.)  

Really the gene for this pattern has been bred into other breeds and also has been widely spread through the random-breeding domestic shorthair/ domestic longhair (" moggy" ) population over the past 100+ years.   So there are many pointed moggies around.   and it's no way to know for sure how back the Siamese was or whether the pattern was passed down via some other breed that got it from the Siamese.    

The two kittens are not  Balinese either.   Balinese are longhairs and single coated -- their coats are  not so poofy looking.   but yet the tails have longer hair than these kittens seem to have.    

  There are a LOT Of phony Balinese too.  TBH, I don't even know of any old style Balis  that I would trust the pedigrees.    Anyway it doesn't sound like the breeder even claimed they are Balinese.  

   With kittens from BYBs sold as " Siamese" ,  there is no knowing what kind of mix went into them.    Could have been some parent with fairly recent Siamese ancestry.   .or could be the parents were a couple cute moggies whose most recent Siamese ancestors  were decades ago.  

In yours,   the ear size and ear set does remind me of old style Siamese.  Eyes look rounder esp. on the girl.   I cannot really see the head shape so well or the body type... it looks like boning might be heavier.  but that may be due to the plush coat.

 If they grow up to have a notably long body and legs,  prominent wedge shaped muzzle (I don't mean the whole head being a sharp angled wedge),  and a big low pitched Siamese voice...  those would be some signs they probably have a fair bit of Siamese in them.  enough that I would call them a Siamese mix.  I have had some pointed cats from rescues or shelters that I think had quite a bit of Siamese and  others who I think probably were under 0.00001% Siamese.   Of course I have loved them all !  

Make sure to take them  for their shots and de-worming and vet check up,  (if you haven't already done so).    

 And make sure to get them spayed / neutered.   The boy could definitely be neutered now.  and that will make it less likely he will spray.    If you don't get him done now,  then make sure to get them BOTH done by the time the girl is 4 months old  since sometimes kittens can actually breed even that young but it would be bad for her to go through a pregnancy at that age,        ( If you wait until the girl is 4 months get them BOTH done or get her done first ,  because he can still be fertile for up to 7 weeks after neutering!) 

And of course we want to see MORE pictures!     

 

[xolisy]

Thank you for your helpful answer! I knew the boy wasn't a purebred Siamese as I rescued him from a shelter. I was not sure about the girl though but she did look too dark to be a chocolate to me too. They will be getting spayed/neutered. My boy has an appointment next week and my vet doesn't allow them to be fixed until 4 months. Thank you!!

 

[maewkaew]

  I'm glad it was a help..   I have had some wonderful pointed cats from shelters and Siamese Rescue and I am glad to hear you adopted this gorgeous seal point boy.     I do think your cute little girl looks like she will turn out to be a  seal point too.    

I think some people maybe don't know the term "seal point" and they think all the ones with the dark brown points are "chocolate points" ?     After all, dark chocolate ( the food)  can be very very dark colored!  And many people may have never actually seen a chocolate point cat to compare,  since they're not as common as seal points which is dominant.      If you can see how the body on that one chocolate pt looks paler   and his points are a lighter shade of brown than the points on the seals (including the nose leather)  --  that is more typical for a chocolate point.    ( of course there are some cats who refuse to be typical in any way including coat color!)  

 At 4 months is a good age to get them fixed.   Many of them don't reach puberty that young but some certainly do,  and with having a male and female,  you are smart not to let it delay too long.   

Hope they will be good friends.   and hope you will share more pics as they grow up! 

 

[carolyncc]

He is a seal point balinese while she is a chocolate balinese.