Two ferals, four+ years on, STILL can't get near them!

[kindness4me]

Hello everyone! I just stumbled upon the site and couldn't resist signing up.

I've been adopting/rescuing cats (and dogs) basically my whole life, so let's just say 40+ years. In late 2008 a feral mom showed up in my yard with her three newborn kittens; they were nursing the first time I ever saw them, and were tiny. I started putting food and water down for the mom.

Eventually the mom and one kitten disappeared, but I continued putting food and water out for the remaining two kittens, and I also put out a cat litter box. Every day or two I'd move all of it a few feet closer to the house. The kittens kept following.

I managed to trap them, one by tricking into coming into my house (I kept moving their food/water bowls closer to the house, then *IN* the house, and left a door open) and one by using a humane trap. They're both the same sex--thank goodness!--girls, and have been indoors since 2009.

If you did not know they were feral, you would NEVER guess by their daily behavior. Specifically, they interact with my other four (all rescued/adopted and spayed/neutered) cats, they play, they sleep on the furniture, they potty in the litter boxes, they come running for treats, etc. BUT! If I even make a move like I'm about to stand up, or walk toward them, POOF! off they go! They're even worse with strangers. They'll just hide under my bed until the stranger leaves.

They've never been to my vet, because I've never been able to catch them. If they had been opposite sexes...I'd be in a heap of trouble by now.

I'd really love to hear any ideas, advice, or suggestions anyone might have as to what else I can do to try to make them more...normal. Less feral. I've done things like sit on the floor and coax them with snacks or toys, I've tried trapping them in one room and just talking calmly to them (they climbed up--and ruined--curtains by doing that *sigh*), and so on.

I'd love to take them in to be vaccinated and spayed, but it's a lost cause at this point. This is the first time in my entire life I've had anything like this happen, and it's weird. Almost insulting! Like, don't they know *I* am the one providing all the food and snacks and toys? :lol3:

 

[StefanZ]

Some are more difficult than the others.  Although I will admit, this is quite unique.  If you took them in as adults, I wouldnt be surprised. But you were their caretaker from they were newborn, and took them in as kittens...

Here we too see the result of having other cats as their companions.  They do adapt faster, they do. So for a newbe rescuer an own friendly resident makes it easier.  But, in unlucky cases they dont attach to the human, they dont need as they do have other friends and pals = the other cats.

This is one of the reasons many experienced fosterers prefer to not use their residents as ambassadors.

IF you want to go on, the try would probably be: in a separate room, one and one, you and just one of them.  Feliway diffuser on, calm relaxing music on,  some suitable Flower essence from Jackson Galaxy in their drinking water.

You being there, sitting on the floor etc, sleeping on a matterass on the floor in the nights...

The cat having a cat igloo, its own laying place, scratching post, litter,  some toys.

 

[StefanZ]

Continuing.

Something like that.

Otherwise,  you just must accept you do have two happy semiferales living inside.

Using a humane trap and or wrapping them up in a big towel when you need to  do  something especial.

Talking about  wrapping in a towel.

There is a trick, useful for  fostering kittens, may perhaps be useful here too:   Catwoman707 gave me the idea.

You wrap them in a towel like a burrito.  Wrapped so up, they cease resistance and get passive.  You held them at your chest, and carry them around one hour.  Talking friendly, making friendly noises "crooning", singing softly.  A couple of three such sessions and its done.

Its like the american way of training a feral horse, by breaking it in.

Here is the backturned version, a verry soft and friendly breaking in.

Tx a lot for your lifelong help to these our smallest brethrens and sisters!

Good luck!

 Welcome to our Forums!

 

[kindness4me]

Hi Stefan, and thanks for the great comments.

One thing that made me feel better was a chance encounter with another 'parent' at my vet's office. We talked about my feral issue, and he told me he'd had a feral that he'd caught and had lived indoors with him and his family for NINE YEARS before the cat finally let him (or anyone) touch him. The cat lived about two more years after that, and was never a lap cat or anything, but would grudgingly accept an occasional petting.

Anyway, with my issue, there's a lot more I didn't put in my original post, because it was already so long. One of those was that I did the swaddling towel thing with one of the kittens back in 2008 (the day after Christmas, to be specific). I had tricked her into coming inside, and she was still LITTLE at this time, and I knew and had used the towel trick many times over the years. So I grabbed a towel, tossed it over her, swaddled her in it, sat down on a chair, held her close to my chest, talked softly and calmly to her, stroked her (through the towel), etc. At some point she started slipping out of the towel, and next thing I knew she was sliding out the bottom. I attempted to readjust her, and she BIT me. I mean bit like a lion biting an antelope's neck to kill it. She was growling wildly and sinking her teeth into my hand and writhing and scratching. I [obviously] let go. She ran to the door and I decided, in that moment, that it would be best to let her back out, so I did.

I've also used Feliway.

As I said, when I previously tried trapping one [at a time] in a room, shutting the door, and trying to calm her down, the only thing that accomplished was having the curtains destroyed as they ran wildly around the room, including *UP* the curtains, in a crazy attempt to escape.

One of them, the one who bit me, makes overtures all the time like she WANTS to be friendly with me. For example, I'll be sitting at the dining room table (where I keep one of my laptops!), and she'll stroll up and sit 4-5 feet away from me, just looking up, looking at me. Or at night, she'll get up on one of the nightstands next to my bed, and just sit there looking at me. When I go outside, she'll sit near the door and watch me.

As for my decision to socialize them with the other cats, rather than do a concentrated effort to socialize them with me, I left something BIG out--I had a brain tumor at the time. I literally caught the second kitten just days before I went in for a craniotomy to remove the brain tumor. I was completely laid up (far worse than any other surgery I've ever had, and I've had a lot) for many, many months. So I left it up to the other cats to take over! And one in particular did--ironically, he's male, but he's extremely nurturing and immediately took on tasks like cleaning them and showing them the ropes around here.

My most recent rescue also showed up in my yard. Two days later I picked him up and brought him inside. He purred in my arms. He's a mature adult. I had noticed that his right ear was missing its tip--but it didn't look like a battle scar, it was a clean cut. When I took him to my vet [to scan for a chip first, then have a regular appointment if he wasn't chipped], the first thing the assistant said as he walked up was, "I can tell you right now he's not chipped, but he is neutered." I looked at him like he was speaking Martian. I'm thinking...wow, that's amazing...what magical powers does he have that he can tell all that just by LOOKING at him?! It was the clipped ear. He told me that means the cat had been trapped, vaccinated, neutered, and released. Anyway, it turns out this cat is FIV+, but he's healthy and wonderful and I love him. He's near me at all times--and he loves being picked up, petted, played with, etc. I just with the two ferals, who've been here for 3+ years LONGER than him, would do that!

 

[StefanZ]

Good he is friendly to both folks and cats. So the risk for cat fights and maximal stressing out is much lower. Both factors extra important for the FIV+.  FIV isnt very contagious, it spreads almost only by bites.  And can break out in the carrier cat at time of high stress, alike quite many other diseases.

I presume you did had read on?  Otherwise, our forumist LDG is a great expert on it (along with several other fields).  Find her posts, she has links in her signature.  PM her too for more links if so is.

Good luck!

 

[kindness4me]

Yes, I did tons of research on FIV. My vet knows my house rule: all the kids have to get along! It's something I can't explain, in words, but people who know me just know what I mean. I have this philosophy--learned over many years of trial and error--that it's the HUMANS in the house who set the tone. If the humans are freaked out and skittish, like when introducing a new pet, the pets pick up on that and act accordingly. But if the humans are calm and nonchalant about it, the pets react similarly. I can actually recall when I used to keep certain cats, or dogs, separated from others because they didn't get along. That seems like a million years ago! Anyway, I have almost zero concern that the FIV+ cat will spread the virus to my others--they just simply don't fight.

By the way, before becoming disabled myself, I used to do extensive volunteer work with HIV+ people. So I wasn't at all freaked out when the test results came back and my new boy was FIV+.

 

[cats galore]

Dear Kindness4Me:

We brought in 5-kittens and their mother maybe since last June.    I think the kittens were born in April.  The mother brought her brood closer to our house when I fed them on a regular basis.  It’s funny, but the kittens range from very friendly to super scaredy-cat.  That’s how I got them in the house – easiest to hardest.  Now, they don't have a desire to go outside.

We have 1-kitten that we cannot pick up.   I think I had to put food in a carrier in order to catch her so we could take her to the Vet.  When at the Vet in a closed exam room they had to put a fishing net with handle over her to contain her for her shots – note that a “fishing net” is the key here.  They kept the net over her the whole time and when they administered her shots.  I think they grabbed her by the back of the neck to get her back into the carrier.  All 6 of these cats get along good with the year old female that has been in the house.

Now the mother does not want to be picked up.   She has gone to the Vet the first time for everything including spaying.  It’s now time to go again for her second round of shots, and tricking her into the carrier with a food tidbit just won’t work again.  I tried forcing her in the cage today and that didn’t work.  So I intend to use the fishing net to trap her and then throw a blanket over her to disorient her and protect myself from bites and scratches.  The hard part will be to transfer her to the carrier.  The other 4-cats are easy to put and lock into a carrier by hand.

Now my picture which I just posted today shows the feral father of the kittens.   Strangely, he is the nicest, kindest cat you ever met even though he has the face of a mountain lion.  He has been to the Vet and is easy to pick up and put into the carrier.  He comes inside every day to eat and then wants back outside.  The bad part about him is that the original house female doesn’t get along with him.  He also likes to pee all over the place.  I am worried about the coming winter, so we bought a large cage that would contain him overnight with food, water and a litter box.

Finally, our scaredy-cat “Frostie” has gotten better coming around us, but we still can’t pet her let alone pick her up.   I asked the Vet if that shyness will go away.  The Vet thought that once they mature, she thought it would be harder for them to get friendly.

I hope my thoughts here help you.   Good luck.

 

[kindness4me]

Hi Cats Galore! Thanks for sharing your story. It's funny how siblings from the same litter can be so different, huh?! My last two Great Danes were littermates, and they couldn't have been more opposite as far as temperament. Freddie Mercury (my big, black, beautiful, ultra-special, mama's boy) was just as laid back as can be. Calm, quiet--except when protecting his home or Mommy--gentle. He went to work with me all the time. His sister, Queen, on the other hand, was high strung, super active, naughty, noisy, just the opposite... They're both at Rainbow Bridge now; Queenie died on October 17, 2005 and Freddie on October 16, 2008. I believe fate played a hand in the timing of Freddie's death, because as I mentioned above, I had a brain tumor then--but it hadn't been diagnosed at the time he died. I was having horrible problems, like losing my balance and falling, but it wasn't until early 2009 that it was finally diagnosed. Post-op I was laid up worse than I could've imagined--it was months before I could do things like walk unaided, or drive, or go outside. I would've been unable to care for my Fredster...but I never, ever would've parted with him. He was my baby. My 182 pound baby.

But back to feral cats. Yours sound very different from mine. I've honestly never seen anything like the two I have. You'd think that after FOUR YEARS they'd at least not take off like a bat out of hell when I approach them! But they do. My best friend (who now lives far away) and I are going to make it our project the next time she visits to catch them and get them to my vet. But I don't know when that'll be.