Two Brothers Fighting After Move

shadowgx

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A little over a month ago I moved. I live in a 2 story home that was converted into 2 apartments - I was on the top floor, now am on the bottom. Since moving my two normally very peaceful loving boys have had 2 death matches. Yes, I know the difference between a play fight and a death match. Play fights do not involved hissing (until one wants to say "I'm done" and the other respects it), no growling, no screaming, very little fur raising, and never have they drawn blood.

I suspect the reason for this is because Nom, the one in my avatar, is especially nervous after the move. He's normally a clingy cat compared to Rawrz, but he's even clingier now. He will randomly poof his fur for what seems to me to be no reason. He's also constantly looking around and acting as though he expects something to jump out and get him. Well, one night his brother did just that, and it sparked the first death match. I was terrified thinking they were going to kill each other. I've only heard outdoor cats do that prior and it was to cause severe injury to rivals, not just warn them to back off. Rawrz did sustain a bit of injury on his neck that I found days later, but luckily nothing major. A full 12+ hours away from each other and using play and food bonding got them to like each other again by the next evening and they were right back to cuddling on their kitty tower.

This time I have no idea what sparked it. I was woken up at 4:29pm (I work nights, so it's actually early for me to get up then) by the screaming and had to intervene. I tried to go back to sleep, but I was so worked up that I couldn't. 3.5hrs later was their supper time, so I tried food bonding and it went ok... Until I stepped away to refill their water. The growling and hissing started up, so I closed the door I had between them. Or I thought I had. While I went back to refilling the water the door had opened and Nom went after Rawrz again. I had to intervene again by grabbing Nom, this time getting redirected at (no injury), but I didn't want them to get hurt so I had to risk it. Bonding failed, so they're spending a night apart again. This time Nom got a piece of claw stuck in his nose and I had to pull it out. Shows just how real this is - they mean to hurt each other.

I'm really worried now that even if I get them to bond again, there will be a death match while I'm at work and can't stop it. I live alone and have no family close by to watch them at night, and even if I got a camera to watch them myself from work there would be no one to stop the fight. Leaving work isn't an option, even for emergencies.

As for Rawrz, he's taking very well to the new place. He doesn't act nervous like Nom does. It takes something big to even make him look like he heard it, the little noises don't bother him like they bother Nom. He doesn't go after Nom during these fights either, he only tries to get away and when cornered will defend himself. The first time he scared Nom it was purely an accident, but Nom didn't see it that way.

What can I do to help Nom be less nervous to hopefully stop more fights from happening? Two major reasons I think he's so nervous:
1. New environment, pretty obvious. We lived in that apartment for 3 years and they're only about 3 and a half, so most of their life by far was spent there. They're basically feral, they only know me and each other, and Nom especially hates when my family comes over, but Rawrz is getting used to my mom at least. Now that we're on the bottom floor they see and hear the neighbor and her friends come and go all the time and Nom is obviously nervous just hearing someone.
2. The apartment used to be occupied by 3 other cats. Apparently, one or all of them were not properly litterbox trained and the basement reeks of cat urine. I'm sure both of my boys smell the scent of those 3 all over the house, so I'm thinking that has something to do with it too - like Nom sort of expects the owners of the scents to come get him and maybe even is confusing his brother for one of them.
 

Furballsmom

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Hi!
Yes, you're exactly right, Nom is smelling those other cats' pee. --There may also be cats roaming around outside.

Here are my thoughts;
Obtain a good black light so you can see all the urine spots and clean the heck out of them, there's an enzymatic cleaner that doesn't require soaking called the Equalizer.

I would NOT suggest feliway in this case, when a cat is really upset it can have the opposite effect and make things worse. There are other calming products available if you're interested, treats, collars, sprays.

Start playing low volume classical harp music, it's known to help relax cats. There's an app too, Relax My Cat and MusicForCats.com

Also try chamomile tea, from @Mamanyt1953
Use commercial tea bags from your local grocer's coffee/tea aisle to be sure you are using only German chamomile. Brew a cup, chill it in the fridge, and administer 1-3 teaspoonfuls up to 3 times a day, via syringe. The tea will keep for up to three days in the fridge.

If you haven't syringed before, place the tip of the syringe between the gum and the cheek and SLOWLY inject, allowing time to swallow.
 
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shadowgx

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The problem with cleaning is those cleaners are not cheap. I did do some research online about it when I first moved in because it's miserable to go down there and I have to for the washer and dryer (the main reason I even moved was for access to those). Getting the one you recommended on amazon is $23 (it says it's for carpet though, not cement), and the cheapest blacklight is another $13, so a total of $36. I just don't have that right now. I still need to get them their food for the month too, and their food is about $35. >~< My only option is to plead to the landlord to purchase a cleaner and I'd be willing to do the work, which I will probably attempt to do tomorrow.

Other calming products was what I was most interested in trying. Browsing here I've seen very mixed things about Feliway anyways so I didn't want to try that, and anything else I try would have to be pretty cheap unfortunately. Treats maybe would be cheap enough. I'll have to look into collars. Essential oils maybe too? But I've seen mixed things about those too, so not sure it's worth bothering.
 

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Here are some calming products;
Richard's Organics Pet Calm-those are drops that you put on the tip of their tongue. Quiet Moments Cat treats, there is Calming Care, Calm-o-mile, Sentry, Natures Miracle calming spray, Vetri-Science's Composure is another item to look at, Pet Remedy (it has valerian) is yet another, as is Essential Pet Pet-ease, Only Natural Pet (brand and website) has a calming product, Pet Naturals also has one I believe.
Also Thunderease has diffusers as does Sentry.
You might want to check with your vet, but some people have good results with CBD oil.
Lambert Vet Supply is a website to look at, and of course chewy, also there's Petwishpros, drsfostersmith, animaleo.

Calming Treats For A Very Picky Cat
 
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shadowgx

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I think I might try the Only Natural Pet treats. That's where I get their dry food from. I got some treats for them before from there and it was easy to sneakily give them the treats (they do smell bad and so the cats wouldn't take the treats by themselves). I am slightly concerned about the "skullcap" in the ingredients though. It says that it's in the same family as catnip, but my boys go bonkers when they have catnip so I don't let them have it. If it had such an effect of course these would not be a good thing to try. All of the oils they sell are way too expensive for me right now, but I'll check on other sites before I decide to purchase the treats.

Thanks for the articles, but again those are for carpet. I'm dealing with cement (which soaks urine smell). Even upstairs it's wood floors, not carpet, and I don't smell anything up there, it's just the basement. From what I've read you need a cleaner that will soak into the concrete. Surface cleaning will not do it, and any little bit of moisture will kick the smell up again (like humidity, which is common here), which is exactly what I'm seeing from my previous cleaning attempts with other products.
 

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Do you have powder Tide? If you create a slurry with it and apply, and let it dry then scrape it up? Would that work? It may take more than one application...
 
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shadowgx

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I don't have powdered Tide or any powdered laundry detergent. I use liquid. =/

I did purchase the treats and their food just now because I have a coupon for free shipping and both were on sale. Here's hoping they work. >.< And arrive quickly...
 

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The liquid might work, what if you mixed a little of the liquid with some baking soda. I know, this sounds weird, but in other words something in powdered form that would keep the liquid from spreading out away from the spot you're wanting to take care of, and would also possibly help to absorb the stink from the cement as the concoction is drying.

free shipping and both were on sale.
Always an excellent thing, good on you!! :thumbsup:

Let us know how things go :heartshape:
 

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I've done this before and it works.
If you use liquid laundry detergent, check the ingredients. Most liquid detergents, especially those for HE and "wash in cold water", contain enzymes to help break down biological matter (our skin cells and oils and such). It will be a pain in the rear end and take some time but here is what you do.
Dilute the laundry detergent to half with water, so it's still a good concentration but not so thick.
Get a good amount on the areas, then get a scrub brush and get to it. :sweat:
After scrubbing, let it soak into the cement for a while. Cement is porous so you really want to let it get in there to get to the old urine stains.
After a while, go check on it and re wet with your diluted mix if necessary, and re scrub, get it all sudsy again, and let it soak some more.
Then the process of cleaning up the suds. :gaah: It takes a while, because every time you rinse and wipe more bubbles keep forming.
I did this in my laundry room and it worked wonders, you couldn't even see the darker stains in the grout lines anymore. :bliss:
But you NEED to keep your cats out of the area completely, you do NOT want them to step in this high concentration of detergent and ingest it when they clean themselves. :sickcat:
And a bottle of laundry detergent, that can be diluted is much cheaper than the enzyme cleaners. But as I said......a TOTAL PAIN IN THE BUTT to clean up, so make sure you have the time and patience. :doh2:

You can use this to clean other surfaces other than cement, but only as long as it does not ruin them, depending on how long you need to let it soak in.
 

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One more thing, if you have carpet in the apartment with urine stains, or if you have laminate flooring that is lifted at the edges because of pee damage, I would suggest you ask your landlord to replace it. Unfortunately, no amount of cleaning will get rid of that if the previous owners did not take care of it properly, and heavy duty chemical cleaners would not be safe for your cats. Hopefully you have a good landlord who will understand. Of course that is worst case, if it's just in the "cement" areas, this should be able to be cleaned up OK.
 
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shadowgx

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Before seeing the liquid detergent suggestion I did get the courage to ask my landlord to consider getting a special cleaner (I have social anxiety, so things like this are hard for me), and he is willing to cover the cost of the cleaner and a black light. I said I was willing to do the cleaning myself, so I think that helped because he had to clean this place a lot before I could move in and was really mad at the last gal for leaving it like she did. If the cleaner doesn't work then I will try the detergent. It better work though for how much it costs...

Luckily there's no carpet, it's all wood flooring on the main floor and just concrete down in the basement. There are two places on the main floor I'm fairly sure the previous tenant had a litter box because you can see pieces of litter in the cracks of the flooring... Lots of it, too. Both of those places also had what looked like pee (dark yellow) spots on the walls and stunk a bit. I had cleaned those when I moved in, but urine is strong so I probably didn't get it all. I will use the cleaner on those spots as well. I'm kind of scared of what the black light is going to find that maybe I can't smell on the main floor, but maybe my boys do...

When I got home from work and introduced the boys they were happy for a bit, but a couple hours later when I made the mistake of opening my other bedroom door they started up again right next to me so I broke it up quick, got redirected on again (but again, no injury luckily) and I'm just going to keep them separated for the next couple days. I don't want to risk them going off and on and hurting each other again. I'm not sure why me opening that door made them want to fight suddenly. They were both on the same side of the door already and had been nice to each other for a couple hours before that... I just don't get it. I think it's further proof that they're super nervous and any little thing can set them off.
 

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You ROCK!!!

Oh, try some music, it really does help. Kusc.org is free

About the boys, I think your plan of cleaning should help a lot, plus it will be better for your health as well not to be exposed to that.
 
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shadowgx

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I let them see each other this morning through the door and at first it went ok, but Rawrz was obviously getting a bit tense and looking defensive despite not making noise, so I cut the visit short. I think his brother being unpredictable is making Rawrz a nervous ca now too... Nom seemed happy to see us both because he had been without me all night. Even if they had gotten along perfectly, I wouldn't have let them be together for too long because I don't want another fight. I'm gonna be very careful about allowing them contact even when I get the treats. I need to see that Nom isn't acting nervous and neither are being defensive during the short meetings.

Poor little Nom feels so neglected this morning. He won't leave me alone, even favoring cuddles over food.
 
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shadowgx

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Ok, so, I got the cleaner and cleaned and wow did it work. The urine smell is completely gone, and both of the boys have been exposed to the basement since (but still separately) and don't seem as upset, but I think they still expect someone they don't know to come up from the basement and get them.

I've been letting them see each other briefly through the door each day. I've been working the last few days, so haven't had time to do many bonding things. Just food bonding, and I haven't done it every day or meal.

I've been using the treats for 3 days now, but only yesterday was able to trick Rawrz into eating them. Surprisingly Nom ate them right away with no tricks, even though they smell really bad. I don't really notice a difference in either of their attitudes, but overall I guess they seem less defensive. Not sure if that's thanks to the treats, less smell of other cats, or both.

This morning Nom got through the door, even when I set the food down he was determined to get to the bowls in the kitchen where his brother was already eating. I was really worried, but Rawrz just looked at him and let him eat from his bowl like he normally would (he's very passive with food). Neither seemed defensive or nervous to see the other.

Tonight when I got up to get ready for work Rawrz was reaching under the door and Nom was playing with him, it was so cute. I let them see each other through the door and they were trying to play with each other. I felt bad but I just can't trust them alone overnight yet, so I had to keep them apart again. If a fight were to break out randomly while I wasn't home it would be horrible. I'm off in a couple days and will let them meet then if all is still going well.
 
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shadowgx

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Day one of keeping them together begins. A couple hours in, we're looking good. Initial meet went great, they were so focused on breakfast they didn't even notice each other. After breakfast, no poofs or signs of defensiveness. They do seem a tiny bit nervous about the basement yet, but are tolerating each other around it so I'm hoping that it means they're gonna be ok now that the majority of the smell is gone.
 
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shadowgx

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Welp, bad news. Tonight just before I went to work a fight almost happened again. My obnoxious upstairs neighbor stomped and ran down the stairs which may as well be in my house because there's just a thin wall separating them. This spooked Rawrz really bad and he began poofing up and looking defensive, then Nom did the same and Rawrz started growling and ran towards my room so that's where he's staying tonight. Nom tried to follow but I was able to stop him. Ugh. They were doing so well again. Stupid jerk ruined it.
 
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