Transitioning and recipe recommendation?

[mysticdragon72]

OK so I've decided to get my cats transitioned over to raw. I have been doing lots of research here and on other sites and have found a base recipe to use but I'm not sure if the way I modified them is right so I'd like some advice there too please.
First off I have 5 cats. Two older cats that are both showing signs of arthritis as well as being kind of overweight due to reduced activity. The three kittens are about 9 months old and are all very active and are at a healthy weight. I'm currently feeding the old cats half a cup each of dry split into 3 feedings as well as two 3oz cans of fancy feast split between the two twice per day. The kittens have free choice dry which the older cats sneak into as well plus they get fed four times a day and I split 6 cans between the three of them over those 4 feedings. I'm hoping that they'll all love the raw right away but I'm going to try introducing them to raw pieces when I feed them their canned at lunch. Then we'll go from there and let them tell me how quickly they'll accept raw.

The recipes I will be using are based off the recipe found http://feline-nutrition.org/nutrition/making-raw-cat-food-for-do-it-yourselfers here.
I used chicken, rabbit and duck from hare-today along with tripe with spleen added for more organ meat. Since their grinds aren't at a perfect ratio and have more bone than I'd like I used mschauer's calculator for making the proper ratio and adjusted the amounts to equal the 5.8 pounds of meat, bone, organs called for in the original recipe.
I can write out the recipes if they're needed but I'm curious about the differences in the supplements in the various recipes I have found yet all say they're balanced....how is that possible if they're all so different?

One last question, would it be better to add the supplements when fed based on daily requirements or just follow the recipe?

 

[mschauer]

I can write out the recipes if they're needed but I'm curious about the differences in the supplements in the various recipes I have found yet all say they're balanced....how is that possible if they're all so different?

First, there is disagreement over what is meant by "balanced". Some believe that as long as the 80-10-5-5 guidelines are followed the food will be balanced with no need for supplementation. Others believe a food can only be considered balanced if it meets AAFCO recommendations. And there are still others whose beliefs lie somewhere between the two.

Also, even recipes that claim to be balanced and which use the same criteria for determining what balanced means can differ by the amounts of supplements used because there is a minimum amount being targeted but the recipes may overshoot the minimum by different, but presumably safe, amounts.

Unfortunately I have also seen cases where a claim of balanced has been made but it is clear that the food can't actually be meeting the criteria for balanced they claim to be using.

 One last question, would it be better to add the supplements when fed based on daily requirements or just follow the recipe?

If you are planning on freezing the prepared food there might be an advantage to adding the supplements at feeding time. There can be some nutrient loss during long storage times. Mineral supplements (such as calcium) won't be affected by storage. Mostly (exclusively??) it is vitamins that are.

 

[mysticdragon72]

So basically there's not really one source to get the info from as far as the vitamins and minerals required for a cat? Also, since I used your calculator to get closer to that 80,10,10 ratio would that mean my recipe is pretty close to covering what they need? I guess the first statement I made basically means that it's not possible to know? All I want to do is feed my cats healthy food that provides them everything they need lol why does it seem that that's almost impossible to figure out?

 

[mschauer]

The AAFCO recommendations are the guidelines pet food manufacturers, including the commercial raw food manufacturers, are required by most states to follow to ensure the nutritional adequacy of their foods. So any food or recipe that claims to satisfy those recommendations should be OK.

As for the 80-10-10 rule, like I said, there is disagreement over whether just following those ratios will result in a nutritionally adequate food. Very few foods formulated just using that ratio will satisfy AAFCO recommendations. The raw feeders who follow the 80-10-10 rule believe it isn't necessary to follow the AAFCO recommendations.

Here's a link to a directory of my recipes :

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByPP2-Qsfkh4RmFaNG0xSXVzejA

They all meet or are close to meeting the AAFCO recommendations. I don't use the 80-10-10 guidelines. I go strictly by a computer analysis of the food as compared against the AAFCO recommendations.

If you look at the resources link at the top of this forum you'll find a post containing links to supplement mixes you can add to meat and possibly organs to make a food that is AAFCO compliant:

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/264154/raw-feeding-resources

 

[mysticdragon72]

Wow lots of info there! Thanks!
I based my recipes off the one on the link I provided in my earlier post and I kept the supplements the same. I used all my meats and organs from hare today. I tweaked it a little using your calculator to reduce the amount of bone in the various grounds. Would you check out one of the recipes I wrote out and see what you think? You don't have to of course but it would be greatly appreciated. Any recommendations would be great as well.

This is my rabbit recipe:
3.5# rabbit meat/bone/organ
1.55# boneless chicken meat
0.2# rabbit organs
0.55# ground green tripe with spleen
4 raw egg yolks
2000mg taurine
5000mg fish oil
200mg B complex vit.
400IU vit E.

I also plan on making duck and chicken using the same base recipe but different amounts of the meat and organs calculated using your calculator.

 

[mschauer]

Unfortunately I can't say too much definitively about your recipe. Normally what I do to evaluate a recipe is to analyse it with a program I wrote. The program uses nutrient information from the USDA database. So a recipe I analyze has to have specific ingredient information like exactly which organs are used, whether white or dark chicken meat is used, etc.  And the ingredients have to be in the USDA database. That database only as nutrient information for rabbit meat, no organs.

Generally speaking your recipe looks pretty good in that it contains the supplements we usually find are needed in our home-made recipes.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

 

[mysticdragon72]

On the contrary you've been most helpful!
I'll be getting my meats and organs from hare today since they're so close and although rabbit organs aren't in the database you reference all the other meats probably are. I'll be using boneless thigh meat for the chicken portion and I believe the whole rabbit is included in that rabbit meat bones organs mix. All except for the fur feet stomach and intestines. The tripe is beef along with the spleen. Quite the mixture but I wanted a variety of organ meat to be included. The supplement values I used from the recipe I based mine off of.
I'm pretty sure it'll be OK but I wanted someone with more knowledge than me to double check so thanks.

 

[mysticdragon72]

Well I tried to introduce some raw chicken tonight. Two of the five didn't seem to know it was good but the other three ate it with gusto lol so I'd say that was a success. The one cat doesn't like to eat out of my hand and she ran away due to the others swarming her. I'll try again tomorrow with the other two.