Too much magnesium?

[F+V]

Our 5-year-old kitties have been fed raw meals but I've discovered one of them (male) is prone to blockage. Not a total blockage that requires the emergency trip to the vet yet, but the volume of his urine becomes smaller. This started about a year ago. X-ray and ultrasound didn't find any stone but at the time he was eating almost two chicken necks a day, so I assumed that that was the cause, but now we've moved to another country where I cannot source non-chlorinated, organic chicken necks, he's been off the necks for over a month now. For about a month they were fed canned wet food and the amount of his urine was exemplary, but since I resumed feeding them regular home made meals about 2-3 weeks ago, I've noticed he micturates a small amount more often and believe that's because of the bones in their meal. Bone content is 6-7%.
Has anybody experienced this with home made meals? I thought about extracting the bone marrow but then the bone also acts as an important source of minerals, but the only way to alleviate his symptom is to use less bones and maybe add broth to their water. But how would I make up for the lost minerals?

P.S. Their first vet visit in this country is in two weeks and I will ask for detailed urinalysis.

 

[Antonio65]

Maybe I'm missing something, but why can't you just feed them with canned food? As far as I know, all canned food is perfectly balanced and complete for a cat.

 

[furmonster mom]

Maybe I'm missing something, but why can't you just feed them with canned food? As far as I know, all canned food is perfectly balanced and complete for a cat.

She’s asking the question here because this is the raw feeding forum where, for various reasons, people prefer to feed raw diets over commercial canned or dry.

Our 5-year-old kitties have been fed raw meals but I've discovered one of them (male) is prone to blockage. Not a total blockage that requires the emergency trip to the vet yet, but the volume of his urine becomes smaller. This started about a year ago. X-ray and ultrasound didn't find any stone but at the time he was eating almost two chicken necks a day, so I assumed that that was the cause, but now we've moved to another country where I cannot source non-chlorinated, organic chicken necks, he's been off the necks for over a month now. For about a month they were fed canned wet food and the amount of his urine was exemplary, but since I resumed feeding them regular home made meals about 2-3 weeks ago, I've noticed he micturates a small amount more often and believe that's because of the bones in their meal. Bone content is 6-7%.
Has anybody experienced this with home made meals? I thought about extracting the bone marrow but then the bone also acts as an important source of minerals, but the only way to alleviate his symptom is to use less bones and maybe add broth to their water. But how would I make up for the lost minerals?

P.S. Their first vet visit in this country is in two weeks and I will ask for detailed urinalysis.

Hard to say exactly what the cause could be if there haven’t been any crystals to evaluate. I always thought they were caused by ph imbalance in the food.

You say he’s off the necks, but you’re feeding homemade as before? What are you using as bone source?
Also, are you using a supplement mix, or balancing with organs? What does your recipe generally consist of?

 

[F+V]

What are you using as bone source?
Also, are you using a supplement mix, or balancing with organs? What does your recipe generally consist of?

I'm using leg bones. I add egg yolks, raw glandular supp, taurine, fish oil, vitamin B complex, vitamin E, lite iodizes salt, livers, hearts.

 

[furmonster mom]

Ok
So, my first reaction is that, depending on the amount of egg yolks and hearts in the recipe, you seem to be doubled up on the vit B and taurine. Also, I personally don’t add salt to my own recipe, though I understand some people do. Salt can contribute to water retention.

Leg bones are good, but I don’t see how they would contribute to a magnesium imbalance. Is there some other reason you suspect magnesium as a possible culprit to the urinary issue?

 

[F+V]

Ok
So, my first reaction is that, depending on the amount of egg yolks and hearts in the recipe, you seem to be doubled up on the vit B and taurine. Also, I personally don’t add salt to my own recipe, though I understand some people do. Salt can contribute to water retention.

Leg bones are good, but I don’t see how they would contribute to a magnesium imbalance. Is there some other reason you suspect magnesium as a possible culprit to the urinary issue?

I followed recipes on perfectly rawsome and cat centric, and also catinfo.org and cat nutrition, so I don't think I'm overdosing my kitties with some of the ingredients unless my calculations were erroneous as I'm not very good at math...

(8 cups of water, 16 egg yolks, 16 raw glandular supplement, 4tsp taurine, 16 fish oil capsules, 16 vitamin b complex, 8 vitamin e, 6 tsp lite iodized salt, 500g bones, 380 glivers, 1100g hearts and 5.2kg meat)

I thought eating too much bones contributed, at least partially, to his urine conditions because one article on cat nutrition mentions that her male cat blocked after she added a little too much bones in his meal, and also struvite stones are composed of magnesium among other minerals and I thought bones were rich in magnesium.

I also read that you can add double the amount of taurine if you're freezing food for more than 1-2 weeks and sprinkle some on meal 2-3x a week. I googled but taurine overdose doesn't have any known adverse effect.

My boy did a healthy amount of pee today, so am not really sure if the meal I prepare is not agreeable to him or he just had other issues such as stress. He's now an indoor only cat, so it's easy for me to observe his toilet behavior.

 

[furmonster mom]

As I understand it, chicken bones are heavy in calcium and phosphorus. Magnesium, sodium, and selenium, as well as some other minerals, are considered “trace”.

Since you mentioned there were no visible stones and hadn’t done a urinalysis, how did you come to the conclusion that there were struvite crystals specifically? From the quick search I did, it seems that struvites are caused by an infection that alkalizes the urine. Stress can also be a factor.

There are other kinds of crystals that can form from diet, calcium oxalates being common, but I wouldn’t think a 6-7% bone content would do that. Excess sodium can also form crystals, as well as cause water retention.

Best bet at this point is to wait for urinalysis results and try to somehow add more water to his diet. I wouldn’t recommend commercial broth though, as they often have garlic and onion (and salt) added for flavor.

 

[F+V]

As I understand it, chicken bones are heavy in calcium and phosphorus. Magnesium, sodium, and selenium, as well as some other minerals, are considered “trace”.

Since you mentioned there were no visible stones and hadn’t done a urinalysis, how did you come to the conclusion that there were struvite crystals specifically? From the quick search I did, it seems that struvites are caused by an infection that alkalizes the urine. Stress can also be a factor.

There are other kinds of crystals that can form from diet, calcium oxalates being common, but I wouldn’t think a 6-7% bone content would do that. Excess sodium can also form crystals, as well as cause water retention.

Best bet at this point is to wait for urinalysis results and try to somehow add more water to his diet. I wouldn’t recommend commercial broth though, as they often have garlic and onion (and salt) added for flavor.

When I first suspected of a possible block, I took him to the vet and they did X-ray, ultrasound, urinalysis but didn't find any stones and I believe he was diagnosed as FLUTD and was ordered to eat Hills prescription diet for a month. As you mentioned, bones are rich in phosphorus, and I read that FLUTD cats' food should contain lower phosphorus and magnesium levels to prevent formation of crystals.

The second time I took him to the vet was when I saw a trace of blood in his urine, and urinalysis didn't confirm anything other than it contained blood and potentially bacteria, which I posted on this site but experts questioned the vet's diagnosis and treatment.

I probably assumed that the bones are the culprit because when I first saw him straining in the litter trays, he was earing 2 necks a day, and ruled stress out because we didn't move, didn't welcome a new family/pet, didn't have any visitors, our schedule remained unchanged, food unchanged, litter unchanged, etc etc.

Also, when we moved across the ocean to another country 2 months ago, no doubt my cats suffered extreme stress but his urine behavior was good, and 2 months on they feel at home here so I didn't really think stress caused this and jumped to the conclusion that his diet was the cause. High urine pH can contribute to the formation of struvite stones and I was giving him bones rich in phosphorus, which produces alkaline urine pH. I need to find out his urine pH level. When we go to the vet, we will do more thorough testing incl. vaccine titer test.

 

[F+V]

And I gave up on commercial chicken broth for that reason...... wish they didn't include those. one day I might make my own