Toby vomiting and losing weight, fine otherwise

[barbb]

Thank you everyone for caring. Toby had his ultrasound and his lymphoma has gone into his kidneys so he is in kidney failure. He will be kept overnight at the hospital and given fluids and they will release him to us tomorrow with Baytril. They are not sure whether there is actual infection or whether the white cells are mistaking the lymphocytes with infection. They are also going to give him a dose of L-asparaganase in case it might give him a little boost for the coming weeks. His kidneys are still functioning but the cancer is taking over.

I have always seen this emoticom and thought of the times I have had to use it and have never wanted to think about when I would need it for Toby. He is my boy. I can't bear being away from him right now and it will be very hard when he is gone forever.  

 

[jcat]

I'm so sorry. that he feels better tomorrow!

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Darn it all!

   I am so sorry to be reading this terrible news. 

   I guess all you can do now is spoil him rotten during the time you two have left together.  Let's hope he feels a little better when he gets home tomorrow

 

[ldg]

Barb, I'm just so so so so so so so so so so so so so sorry for the sad news.

for you both.

 

[carolina]

oh Barb, I am so sorry

 

[cailea]

Huge hugs Barb, stay strong and enjoy every moment with him.

 

[feralvr]

Barb, my heart is heavy this morning reading the news about Toby's decline. I am so very sorry for you, hun. Keeping you and Toby close. We are here for you.

 

[barbb]

Thank you for all the caring and support. We brought him home from the hospital and he is not eating. I am giving him fluids 100 ml per day. The doctor said we could increase it to 100 ml twice a day. A friend of mine said that is hard on a kitty's heart. Does anybody know if this is true?

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Yes, too much fluid can be hard on the heart.  How much is too much is really the question.  If you split it up like that, twice a day, it might be ok, but it's a fine line.  I sometimes wonder if we ended up giving our CRF kitty too much fluids and caused him extra problems. 

Look for coughing and kind of gasping for air, because that's one of the signs of heart distress. 

  I sure hope you don't see them.  

Again, I am so sorry about Toby

 

[barbb]

I hope I did the right thing, I waited until this morning and then John and I gave him another 100ml, so that was just about 24 hours since his last 100ml. His fur did not seem like straw last night and I don't want to overdo it.

At the same time he does have kidney damage so I want to be sure and help his kidneys flush the toxins. He gets his meds at night and I would like to give him a little fluids then so that the Baytril can do its work. Maybe I can give him like 30ml then? He weighs between 12 and 13 lbs.  Also he had a shot of chemo at the hospital (l-aspar) and I want that to flush on through him as well and not just sit too long in his system as he is not eating or moving very much. 

We have taken him outside each day since he came home, just to keep him moving around, and feeling like he is part of life so he doesn't give up just yet. It is hard because he feels like $hit right now. But we have seen him like this before when he had a kidney infection years ago. It is like he just won't move at all.

Now of course it is much more serious but I don't feel like I can just write his behavior off to cancer and euthanize him before giving the antibiotics a chance. Yes he has cancer and has renal damage from the cancer but he also has an infection and he always acts like he is on death's doorstep when he has an infection, lol way sicker than he ever acted with cancer and chemo. He may spark up a bit and have a few weeks or months left in him.

It is just very hard to separate what is going on with him right now. Cats are so very hard to read. 

What do you think, maybe 30ml at night? I hope so much that i can get him to eat a bit more. He is licking tuna juice. John and I think he is having problems with his mouth, he moves his tongue around when eating as if he has stuff stuck in his teeth, a bit of overkill. We don't really understand what he is doing. I have been careful to use water chaser with his pills. Just not sure what that is all about. 

This morning I brushed him and I put my head beside him and laid a makeup round mirror on the bed with both our faces in it so he could see himself getting brushed as well as me talking to him. He looked at me through the mirror while i brushed and talked to him, and then he looked back at himself. It was so much fun. I think he enjoyed it. People think animals can't see mirror images- wrong!!!!

 

[jcat]

Now of course it is much more serious but I don't feel like I can just write his behavior off to cancer and euthanize him before giving the antibiotics a chance. Yes he has cancer and has renal damage from the cancer but he also has an infection and he always acts like he is on death's doorstep when he has an infection, lol way sicker than he ever acted with cancer and chemo. He may spark up a bit and have a few weeks or months left in him.

I can't give you any advice about the amount you should give, but I can really relate to the above, having spent a year on that roller coaster with Jamie. He was literally at death's door in February 2012 and we came extremely close to euthanizing him, but he rallied and had a lot of good months till the end of February 2013. that that'll be the case with Toby.

 

[finnlacey]

Yes too much fluids can be hard on the heart and also fill the lungs with fluids so please be careful with that. I hope you have a better day with him today. I'm thinking of you both and you have my thoughts and prayers Barb. 

 

[barbb]

Thank you for the information. 

 I feel so very lucky to have everyone's insight, and am very glad my friend spoke to me about it last night too. When you see your cat essentially frozen in one position and you know they are very ill, if you are like me you want to do whatever possible and that is when you may do the wrong thing.

I have become a little leery of veterinarians, especially the doctors in the emergency room on Sundays. I have their telephone services available to me as Toby was admitted friday and released on Saturday. I really appreciate their services. This is a different group than the dirtbag money-grubbing place where he got his treatment this past year.  But thanks to your advice, I am proceeding with caution. Your advice helped me to take pause and look at their situation. I was told to call with questions any time- but I realized I have to remember I am calling them during emergency hours. So when they look at his file it may lead them to say things based on their role as emergency intervention specialists and their assumption that my call is an emergency and not just critical care support. 

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Well, during the week you can call your regular Vet, can't you.  And discuss even the amount of sub-q fluids to give, and when.   If nothing else, you sure could split the 100 ml between am and pm.  But I would say if the water pouch has completely absorbed, then it's probably ok to give a little more, especially since that's what the Vet already said.  But if the water pouch is still there, then he doesn't need more yet.  Feel around for it too...it may not be noticeable, but may still be there.  You know it could be in his legs, feet, loose skin on his underbelly, not necessarily at the "injection" site? 

I didn't realize Toby was still so large?  My Sven was only 6 lbs by the time we were giving him sub-qs, and we did give him from 150 to  200 ml per dose, but didn't give him that amount every day.  I think it was 3 times a week, simply because we didn't want to poke him every day (he wasn't really fond of getting his "tank filled up" as we called it).  It probably would have been better for him to do smaller amounts EVERY day, but we were thinking of his quality of life, since we figured he was getting towards to end. 

And I also know what you mean about seeming like that are on deaths door when they have an infection.  (I'm the same way

)  We thought we were going to lose Sven almost a full year before we did, all because he was on an antibiotic that made him lose his appetite (worse than usual) and nauseaus, etc.  I swore it was the end, but then he rallied.  If you can just get him over this hump

.  How long is he going to be on this Baytril?  Does it have any side effects.

I'm wondering about his teeth?  Could he have a lose tooth or anything do you think from the chemo?  I know in people chemo can cause all kinds of icky stuff. 

Hoping Toby has MANY more months to spend those precious times with you!  That mirror thing sounds so special

 

[barbb]

Thank you for all the advice! I will ask the doctor tomorrow about chemo and his mouth too. 

Yes Toby is still very large. The doctors at VSC the new place were commenting on how he had a great blood test on March 15th his last chemo treatment, and then somehow completely tanked in a very short time. We had him at his regular doctor on April 5th before we left on vacation, I was worried about him eating; and again on the 20th. He was acting so great at the most recent visit that his internist sent my husband and Toby home with instructions on decreasing his pred and going back to regular activities. But she did not do the blood test at either visit, just x rays to make sure his gas bubble was gone. I think my husband did not report everything I was seeing, but still, I was there the first visit too.

His kidney values were slightly elevated at his March 15th visit; I just think he must have been on the verge of cancer invasion and when the lymphcytes got in there they just really went after his kidneys. That is a weak spot for Toby, when he was very young we took him to VSC because he was acting like the walking dead and could not be diagnosed. He had a partial colon blockage and kidney infection. This is the condition that the doctors said was dormant and reactivated by his vaccine adjuvant. 

I am still hopeful there is an infection there too, that we can get it under control, that the L-aspar has him knocked down now but may help him so long as he doesn't lose too much more weight in the next week or so. 

His not eating right now is our largest concern as I believe he will go down the tubes fast if we can't keep his weight up, I wish I could figure out what is going on with his mouth. I wondered too, if it could be a loose tooth. I will film him eating and post it, if I can get him to eat. He acts like he is chewing peanut butter or something, no matter what goes into his mouth, lots of licking and sideways chewing, it is just so bizarre. I do not know if maybe the cancer is in his mouth or esophagus, or if it is dryness or what. 

 

[blueyedgirl5946]

Keeping you and Toby in my thoughts and prayers.

 

[portia]

Hi there,

Im sorry to hear about TOby and I hope he feels better soon. In your last post you said he was grinding his teeth and licking his lips a lot? Those are tell tale signs of nausea in a cat. Very often, cat with nausea will grind their teeth and smack their lips. This may or maynot be accompanied by vomiting. I would look into administering anti-nausea meds. The two that are commonly used are cerenia and ondansetron (zofran). Is he on pain meds?

 

[finnlacey]

His kidneys are most likely what's causing the nausea. 

 

[ldg]

Oh no, seriously - a potential tooth problem?

 

[barbb]

I took him to the vet today and she said she could feel that his kidneys were smaller and that the chemo was doing a really good job. She said l-aspar works very fast and is a very effective treatment/rescue chemo. She said I could give him 150ml fluids a day but not more than that. He is about 12 lbs now, normal for him is13-14. Before I took him in I wiped wet food off into his mouth and then syringe fed some to him bc he had stopped eating totally. The vet told me to give him mirtazaprine so I gave him an eighth of a tablet. Surprisingly it made him vocal but not hungry. Has anyone experienced this?
Later on he did want food so I gave him some cooked chicken. His teeth made a horrible grinding noise when he ate. I looked this up on the Internet and apparently this is from dehydration. I swear it sounded like he was crunching bones. He did not eat very much but he seemed very hungry like he wanted to eat.
Tonite we gave him 50ml fluids as he had100 early this morning. I think it was a good idea bc he gets his baytril at nite and I think he needs the fluids to help him flush everything thru his system. I do not know how I will do the150 fluids moving forward but would welcome advice.
The doctor told me cats with renal damage/failure suck up fluids pretty fast. Toby is drinking a lot of water too. Anyone who can help me understand please let me know or if there is a good link show it to me.
The doctor said he still has time left in him and I need to watch for vomiting etc.
giving him the food by syringe etc did seem to perk him up a lot. On the good side Toby is very laid back and is not terribly bothered by it, not so far anyhow. Also he doesn't seem to mind the fluids either although it is very hard for me to do them with this gas bubble in my eye . He's been a good boy and I got John to help the last three times.