To rinse or not to rinse - Do you rinse your meats?

[carolina]

Obviously I am referring to whole pieces of meat, not ground.... or before you preparing ground, at home.
I but my meats from different sources, some are vacuum sealed, some are not..... Some are shipped from out of state, some are local.
There seems to be some controversies on the subject as well - some people will say that it is a must to rinse the meats before cutting/bagging to remove as much bacteria from the outer layers as possible..... While others say that by rinsing you might be washing away nutrients in the meat. :dk: I have also heard that by rinsing you can elevate the temperature of the meat at such level, that instead of washing the bacteria off the meat, you would be pushing it in - with the warmer water and by rubbing the meat.
I am not sure of the best route, as to be honest, there are some meats I do rinse, while others I don't..... and my kitties never got sick..... So I am starting to question if it is really necessary? Or if it is even a good thing? Am I just Lucky, or am I wasting my time by rinsing the meats?
For example:
I rinse the local meat I buy at Walmart - the chicken, the turkey. I also rinse the lamb and pork, which I buy at a natural food store.
I do not rinse the Venison, and the hearts, that I buy at HT.
A few times I haven't rinsed vacuum sealed, individually packed chicken I bought at walmart, and their turkey - also vacuum sealed. They were just fine too..... No problems whatsoever.
I have rinsed under running cold water, but lately I just fill a large container with cold filtered water, put the meat inside, give it a good wash, drain, then give it a second rinse with cold filtered water again, drain again.
So, do you rinse your meats? If so, how do you do it?
Also, wysong has this product - Wysong Citrox - you can use to disinfect raw meat, by adding 20 drops to a sink of cold water, and let the meat soak for 5-10 minutes..... My only concern, is the same as with the rinsing/soaking the meats - washing down the nutrients.
Anyways...... what do you do, personally?

 

[ldg]

I'm pretty sure the CDC recommends NOT rinsing the meat, because if there is bacteria on it, it increases the risk that you're spreading it around.

I rinse the meat I buy from the supermarket, because I grew up with my mom rinsing meat, and because Gary likes to rinse the meat. It's probably a waste of time and not necessary. :lol3:

(But I also spray the sink down with bleach when I'm done, and I pat the meat with paper towels so it doesn't drip anywhere).

 

[carolina]

I'm pretty sure the CDC recommends NOT rinsing the meat, because if there is bacteria on it, it increases the risk that you're spreading it around.
I rinse the meat I buy from the supermarket, because I grew up with my mom rinsing meat, and because Gary likes to rinse the meat. It's probably a waste of time and not necessary. :lol3:
(But I also spray the sink down with bleach when I'm done, and I pat the meat with paper towels so it doesn't drip anywhere).

So, the CDC's concern is obviously with the humans, right?
I am not too concerned about that :lol3: I think I am going to be fine there.... While I don't bleach, my dish soap is antibacterial..... All the surfaces are sprayed with clorox anywhere though.
I am more concerned with what happens with the meat itself.... are we pushing the bacteria into the meat? Are we washing the nutrients off? Are we just wasting our time to top it off?

I was also raised with my mom rinsing the meat..... but back then they were exposed a bit more, as she purchased meat at the butcher's.... I don't buy meat that stay in the open like that... I have to hope things are a bit better today too, at supermarkets, transportation, inspection, etc? At least I hope so!

 

[goingpostal]

Honestly I didn't even know people did that but no I don't rinse anything unless I am trying to thaw it faster or it's covered in blood.  I do sometimes rinse off leftover meat that's sat around in my ferret room most of the day and feed it to the cat but not because of bacteria, just because she doesn't like it all dried out.  I really can't imagine you are washing away nutrients by rinsing though, if it makes you feel safer rinse away imo. 
 

 

[ldg]

So, the CDC's concern is obviously with the humans, right?
I am not too concerned about that :lol3: I think I am going to be fine there.... While I don't bleach, my dish soap is antibacterial..... All the surfaces are sprayed with clorox anywhere though.
I am more concerned with what happens with the meat itself.... are we pushing the bacteria into the meat? Are we washing the nutrients off? Are we just wasting our time to top it off?
I was also raised with my mom rinsing the meat..... but back then they were exposed a bit more, as she purchased meat at the butcher's.... I don't buy meat that stay in the open like that... I have to hope things are a bit better today too, at supermarkets, transportation, inspection, etc? At least I hope so!

Yeah, I think that's a hangover from buying from a butcher - or, for my mom, being raised on a farm where they often just killed their own meat (and plucked the feathers off the chickens :lol3: ).

Just rinse with cold water - then I doubt it's an issue. Or don't bother. I'm convinced, at this point, it makes no difference to the cats. I have to agree - no nutrients are being washed away.

But yeah - the CDC is concerned with the impact on people. :lol3:

 

[carolina]

Yeah, I think that's a hangover from buying from a butcher - or, for my mom, being raised on a farm where they often just killed their own meat (and plucked the feathers off the chickens :lol3: ).

Funny you say that...... My mom was raised in a farm too.... My grandpa has a chicken farm - had, as he passed away (the farm is still going though)..... Anyways When I was a kid I had no problems to kill a chicken, pluck the feathers, remove the blood, de-gut..... cook...... and then eat it for dinner Today I can barely kill a fly :dash: Needless to say, when I go to her house I stay away during meal preps :lol3: I appreciate the fresh chicken..... but boy, I can't watch it

 

[ldg]

:lol3: I only had to help pluck the feathers. But it was rather gruesome watching grandpa chop the head off a chicken.

 

[melesine]

only under rare circumstances

 

[burretje]

I do not rinse meat.

A cat's digestive system is very different from our own. You cannot compare the two. A cat's stomach is far more acid (lower PH) than ours. This means hardly any bacteria survive this stage in the cat's digestion. Another big difference is the length of the intestines, which are way shorter in a cat than in a human. This means that any bacteria that would survive in the cat's stomach will pass through the bowels quite rapidly, which gives it less change to grow. 

 

[ldg]

A cat's stomach is far more acid (lower PH) than ours.

This misinformation is written in so many places. But it isn't true, actually. The human stomach is at least as acid as a cat's - and according to many sources, is more acidic. The usual range provided for the acidity of a human stomach is a pH of 1 to 2:

Article in Nature: "How Salmonella survive the stomach," http://www.nature.com/news/1998/981015/full/news981015-6.html
Livestrong: http://www.livestrong.com/article/476461-average-amount-of-stomach-acid-in-the-human-stomach/
Ezine Articles: "Human Stomach - The Basics," http://ezinearticles.com/?Human-Stomach---The-Basics&id=86428 This one says it is 1-3.

A cat's stomach has a normal pH of 2.5, + or - 0.07, according to the National Research Council's Nutrient Requirement of Dogs and Cats: http://books.google.com/books?id=aq...Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=pH of cat stomach&f=false

 

[claudeone]

Carolina,

If I bring something home like chicken and am going to freeze before using, I just dry with paper towel before freezing.  When I am ready to serve it up to the kitties I used to rinse with water that has vinegar and hydrogen peroxide to sanitize the skin.  Lately if I am serving it up whole or chopped raw I have been dunking the chicken pieces in steaming water for a couple of minutes instead of rinsing.  Poultry is some concern because of Salmonella and either procedure will take care of those bugs.  Meat in general ( not ground) usually is low in bacteria counts under normal refrigeration but there have been too many mistakes in the poultry business to take unnecessary chances so I do perform some sort of sanitizing/washing prior to feeding.

 

[burretje]

Not all information on the internet is reliable. You're right about that. However, I'm not too sure about your quote either. You quote a book stating that an cat's average gastric ph is 2,5. However that book for example does not state what the cats in this study were fed. Acidity is affected by the type of food that has been fed. In order to be able to digest bone a cat needs a far lower gastric ph than a cat that is fed kibble.

I'd rather rely on information from vets who are familiar with raw feeding than on random articles on the internet. What I stated was obtained from a vet who is specialized in animal nutrition (one of only a few in Europe) and who is very familiar with raw feeding. A quick search on the internet points in the same direction:

"The gastric acidity (gastric PH) of the stomach of a dog or cat eating a diet predominantly made up of raw meat is very low (very acidic), with a PH of 2 or lower (relative to the level of meat protein). This highly acidic environment favours the breakdown of raw meats, and raw bones, into soft digestible material. The low PH also is highly effective at killing bacteria, particularly potentially pathogenic bacteria like salmonella spp, clostridia, campylobacter and E Coli. So the natural ‘wild” diet of dogs an cats has evolved a gastric environment that favours the breakdown of raw meats, raw bones, and a PH that kills potentially harmful bacteria – consistent with the requirements of carnivores, and in particular, the scavenging nature of dogs.

Also matched to this highly carnivorous diet (raw meat diet) is a very effective digestive process, which occurs in a relatively short gastrointestinal tract. Dogs and cats have a significantly shorter GI tract compared to other non meat eating (herbivorous) animals, whereas man has an intermediate length. The relative length of the gut reflects that nature of the diet, and how efficiently or slowly the food is broken down and absorbed. Fresh raw meat is easily digested and absorbed compared to vegetable matter, and as such, carnivores have a short gut, and rapid gut transit time – fresh meat can be digested and processed in the carnivores body in as little as 8- 12 hrs, whereas plant and vegetable material in a herbivore’s gut can take 3-5 days to be processed."

Source: http://www.vetsallnatural.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=107&Itemid=113

 

[ldg]

FYI, the book I quoted is the book on which both the EU and the AAFCO (in the US) use to base their "complete and balanced" claims. It is considered the definitive resource on dog and cat nutrition.

Either way: if the information you provided is correct about the pH, and the Nutrition Research Council findings are wrong, then it simply means that a cat's stomach pH is the same as a human's. :dk:

Humans can handle a huge bacterial load once accustomed to it - same thing for a cat. If you live in the U.S. or Europe, and then travel to India or China, you're going to get sick if you drink unfiltered water. But once you do, and you get over it, then you can pretty much eat or drink whatever you want, and you will not continue to get sick. (I speak from experience. :lol3: ).

 

[burretje]

I did not state the information was right or wrong. 

 I stated that the ph varies with the diet the cat is fed, which means what is considered "normal" depends on what the cats in the study were fed. Since the book does not mention this information, I do not know if this is also a "normal" ph for raw fed cats. You simply cannot extrapolate without knowing more about how the study was conducted.

However, main point I was trying to make before is that a raw fed cat normally won't be bothered by bacteria on meat. Which is kind of the point in light of the topic at hand (to rinse or not to rinse). 

 

[ritz]

I haven't rinsed meat in the nine months I've been feeding Ritz raw.  I think the less I handle it, the safer.

If there is any blood (rare), I give it to Ritz to drink along with the meat/poultry.

She throws up occasionally (always has, pre/post raw feeding), but that's because she likes cat grass a little too much.

 

[kittylover23]

I don't know if it's necessary or not, but I've always rinsed every kind of meat as a precaution. :nod:

 

[melesine]

As a general practice no, if for some reason I think it needs it I will. 

 

[jiskefet]

Carolina,

If I bring something home like chicken and am going to freeze before using, I just dry with paper towel before freezing.  When I am ready to serve it up to the kitties I used to rinse with water that has vinegar and hydrogen peroxide to sanitize the skin.  Lately if I am serving it up whole or chopped raw I have been dunking the chicken pieces in steaming water for a couple of minutes instead of rinsing.  Poultry is some concern because of Salmonella and either procedure will take care of those bugs.  Meat in general ( not ground) usually is low in bacteria counts under normal refrigeration but there have been too many mistakes in the poultry business to take unnecessary chances so I do perform some sort of sanitizing/washing prior to feeding.

I don't know about salmonella, but I have always been warned that campylobacter, another type of bacteria intestinal in origin, for which chicken meat is notorious, is usually found around the bone. This may be due to the fact that this area is less perfused with blood than the muscles, so they can multiply without lymphocytes coming in in adequate numbers to kill them. If this should indeed be the case, rinsing the surface of chicken meat still on the bone will do little good to remove them.

 

[carolina]

Well, too late :lol3:
I made a batch of chicken, pork, Turkey and lamb..... Didn't rinse any..... It is certainly much easier :lol3:

Now, I have a question, and I think this might be stupid.... But this discussion got me thinking.... I don't know how it's called, but there is a theory about a super disinfected generation, where the kids where so over-protected by their parents, with all the hand washing, not going on the rain, not going outside, not walking bare-feet.. That they underdeveloped their immunesystem.... So instead of protecting them, parents are raising kids who will grow up full of allergies, and other medical issues.
So, with that in mind..... Seeing that quite a few here don't rinse their meats and the kitties are ok..... Are these kitties developing a certain immunity to these bacteria? And if so, should we perhaps let them develop that immunity? Does that make sense? Or is it complete stupidity? :dk:

 

[claudeone]

Humm.....interesting but your comment does raise some questions.  How does the Campylobacter get to the bone?

  Like Salmonella, Campylobacter is an intestinal parasite commonly found in farm animals and birds.   Yes it is of concern but rarely permeates the cell walls of the intestines to invade other parts of the body.  Because it is motile with flagella it can move about and enter cells that  line the intestines.  I would think that the bone may get contaminated from processing but would be unusual to find it there in living chickens.  Regardless, yes it is a concern and can be found on poultry that was not properly processed.  It like Salmonella can be effectively killed with vinegar and peroxide or steaming hot water.  The bugs are more likely on the meat surfaces from poor manufacturing practices by the producer.  Their environmental niche is water such as ponds or water troughs and have a life cycle through animals and get back to the water through defecation by the animal into water.