those with pee issues learn to pee your cat

[initforlove]

this is a small tip for those who have a cat with peeing issues

no matter if your cat has an illness or is peeing for another reason this may help

if your cat is ill then your cat may not be getting cues it needs to go and pee until it is too late

what i do is pee my cat before i go to bed - if my cat has an empty bladder then it is less likely to pee some place that causes me a problem

there is no magic to this

it works on the idea that all mammals drip pee into the bladder constantly so you can pee anytime even if you dont get the cue that you need to go

so with a problem peeing cat you take it back to basic kitten litter training and start putting cat in the litter box and stroke it and whisper 'good kitty' and spend a few minutes reinforcing that is is a good place to be in the litter box

when I was training them to pee for me i would make them sit in the litter box until the cat tried to get out of the litter box 2 times and then give up for that occasion

then I would do the same again after the next meal or before bedtime and soon enough the cat was sitting there swishing tail [which means indecision] but finally decided that as it is in the litter box already it might as well pee. I do not have my hand on the cat during peeing as i find the cat cannot take the correct posture unhindered so I sit by and praise the cat in whispery voice 'good kitty'

after my cat comes out of the litter box I stroke it and praise it

in a short time you can place your cat in the litter box at key times like last thing at night and first thing in the morning and get your cat to pee just because you did that

it reinforces good litter habit and if your cat does not get clear body cues that it is full then this helps and so if the bladder is empty before bedtime you can pretty much count on no problem puddles to clean up the next morning because there just was not enough in the bladder to make your cat go without you being there to make sure it uses the litter box correctly

BTW a cat that I sold to someone else - I told the new owner to pee him before bedtime [he was never a problem pee cat at all but i still taught him to pee when i put him in the box]

anyway the new owner told me that like magic this cat peed as if on command

there is no harm doing this and no matter if your cat is ill or not it reinforces good litter box habits and helps cat to go even if there are not clear internal cues

good luck

 

[otto]

Forcibly making your cat sit in a litter box until you say it's okay to leave will make good litter habits?

I find that very strange and in fact would think it more likely to backfire and cause a cat to avoid the litter box, since cats in general do not like to be forced or held in a place against their will.

 

[initforlove]

Originally Posted by otto

Forcibly making your cat sit in a litter box until you say it's okay to leave will make good litter habits?

I find that very strange and in fact would think it more likely to backfire and cause a cat to avoid the litter box, since cats in general do not like to be forced or held in a place against their will.

well it works like a charm lol

and as I said i dont make the cat sit there longer than 2 attempts to leave at any session

those who have ruined carpet and ruined furniture through cat peeing on things will appreciate it for what it is and just sitting beside the cat in the litter box and praising it establishes a closeness between cat and owner

it is a little like what people with bedwetting children do - put the child to bed at 7 and wake child up at 10 to put on toilet and that stops child bedwetting that night -many parents swear by this method

my experience with my cats [and that is all I can base this on] is that it is a positive thing to do

if you have a different experience and have different ways to do things - that is all great

keep doing what works for you

 

[carolina]

Originally Posted by initforlove

there is no harm doing this and no matter if your cat is ill or not it reinforces good litter box habits and helps cat to go even if there are not clear internal cues

Sorry, but IMHO yes, there is harm - if the cat is ill with a urinary tract infection, and that is the reason for urinating outside of the box, the cat needs to be taken to the vet for proper treatment. Blockage can be lethal, and your technique, without proper treatment in case of an illness, can be very harmful too IMHO. Just my 2 cents FWIW.

 

[strange_wings]

Originally Posted by initforlove

swishing tail [which means indecision]

Where did you read or hear that a swishing tail always means indecision? Often, very very often, in cats it means annoyance, frustration, upset, or if a cat is stalking another cat/toy/bird it will just mean that they're thinking and focusing in.

otto is correct. Forcing a cat to do this isn't going to necessarily create the behavior you want. In some cats sitting over them and not allowing them to leave an area will be interpreted as bullying to them as this is one way a cat can bully another cat. 5 out of my 9 would see it this way, in fact, due to their skittish nature.

 

[initforlove]

Originally Posted by Carolina

Sorry, but IMHO yes, there is harm - if the cat is ill with a urinary tract infection, and that is the reason for urinating outside of the box, the cat needs to be taken to the vet for proper treatment. Blockage can be lethal, and your technique, without proper treatment in case of an illness, can be very harmful too IMHO. Just my 2 cents FWIW.

agreed

I am saying that AFTER your cat has seen the vet and is properly treated then it does not hurt to gently remind it to pee by placing in litter box

my advice was never to be taken as something you do instead of proper medical care - but once you have proper medical care as required by your cat - just gently make it feel good for using the litter box with lots of affection and patting as you place it in the litter box and hope your cat will start to go.

I also regularly praise my cat for being in the litter box - when I walk by and catch my cat in the litter box I always smile at my cat and tell my cat what a good kitty it is

sure the cat will not like it at first but then there are many things cat dont like - they dont like to be combed, they dont like to be bathed, they dont like to stop scratching too hard when playing, they dont like having a curfew or being locked up in the house at night or being restricted to a cat run and they dont like to be stopped scratching your sofa

you cannot always do exactly as your cat wants - sometimes for your good and your cats you need to do things that at first anyway your cat may not like

pee your cat if you want to, but only as an adjunct to any medical treatments

 

[otto]

I too praise my cats when I see them in the litter box but would never cause them stress by forcing them to stay there. Mazy especially, my FLUTD kitty, I always thank her for showing me that she is peeing well.

I've never had to force a kitten, or a rescued stray for that matter, to stay in a litter box to teach them how to use it. Show him or her where it is and they know what to do with it.

I can see where a cat who can pee on command could be helpful, for a cat with FLUTD, for instance, or diabetes, where frequent urine samples may be needed.

However I feel that the stress caused by forcing the cat to sit in a litter box against her will would outweigh any benefit.

To most cats, litter boxes are pretty much sacred ground. While I do know that cats are trainable, and have trained many cats to accept from me many things they may think are unpleasant, messing with a cat's litter box habits is asking for trouble.

 

[initforlove]

Originally Posted by otto

I too praise my cats when I see them in the litter box but would never cause them stress by forcing them to stay there. Mazy especially, my FLUTD kitty, I always thank her for showing me that she is peeing well.

I've never had to force a kitten, or a rescued stray for that matter, to stay in a litter box to teach them how to use it. Show him or her where it is and they know what to do with it.

I can see where a cat who can pee on command could be helpful, for a cat with FLUTD, for instance, or diabetes, where frequent urine samples may be needed.

However I feel that the stress caused by forcing the cat to sit in a litter box against her will would outweigh any benefit.

To most cats, litter boxes are pretty much sacred ground. While I do know that cats are trainable, and have trained many cats to accept from me many things they may think are unpleasant, messing with a cat's litter box habits is asking for trouble.

I understand that you believe the stress would be unbearable for your beloved furchild

but let me put it this way

the first thing that the vet told me to do when my cat was diagnosed with serious urinary complaint is to make the cat flush the urinary system with as much fluid as possible. he suggested that an extra salty diet might force the cat to drink more and therefore pee more

note the word force in the above

therefore me creating a loving bit of quiet time together with my cat while I encourage the cat to pee cannot be bad for kitty - it is MUCH healthier for cats to flush their urinary system before they ever get ill -one of the contributing factors for cats being prone to urinary problems is because they do not pee often enough and tend to hold pee in

so whereas I understand your viewpoint I still stick to mine that it is a good thing to establish a friendship loving atmosphere with peeing your cat more often and especially last thing at night and first thing in the morning

there is no stress because it is based on affection and i do not hold the cat there against my cats will for long enough so the cat will get stressed - it makes a second attempt to leave the box and I let it right away.

when my cat did swish her tail she was actually not restrained by me in any way so it was just her trying to make a decision if she wanted to go or to squat. she chose to squat but if she chose to go i would have let her


may I suggest that anyone who adopts kittens make that a part of your routine so your cat will simply be used to the fact that you always put in in the litter box before bedtime - you may never develop urinary problems - we can only hope
cheers

 

[otto]

Originally Posted by initforlove

I understand that you believe the stress would be unbearable for your beloved furchild

but let me put it this way

the first thing that the vet told me to do when my cat was diagnosed with serious urinary complaint is to make the cat flush the urinary system with as much fluid as possible. he suggested that an extra salty diet might force the cat to drink more and therefore pee more

note the word force in the above

Yes, cats with UT problems need to drink more and pee more, however adding salt to a cat's diet is not the way to accomplish that.

Salt is not good for cats, and salt causes water retention.

therefore me creating a loving bit of quiet time together with my cat while I encourage the cat to pee cannot be bad for kitty - it is MUCH healthier for cats to flush their urinary system before they ever get ill -one of the contributing factors for cats being prone to urinary problems is because they do not pee often enough and tend to hold pee in

Yes, the more cats pee, the better. Mazy, my FLUTD kitty, does not pee as often as I would like. She is a poor drinker too. Her last urine culture was good though, so I try not to worry too much.

so whereas I understand your viewpoint I still stick to mine that it is a good thing to establish a friendship loving atmosphere with peeing your cat more often and especially last thing at night and first thing in the morning

there is no stress because it is based on affection and i do not hold the cat there against my cats will for long enough so the cat will get stressed - it makes a second attempt to leave the box and I let it right away.

when my cat did swish her tail she was actually not restrained by me in any way so it was just her trying to make a decision if she wanted to go or to squat. she chose to squat but if she chose to go i would have let her


may I suggest that anyone who adopts kittens make that a part of your routine so your cat will simply be used to the fact that you always put in in the litter box before bedtime - you may never develop urinary problems - we can only hope
cheers

Agree, it might work starting with a baby, as it will be a case of "always this way". Good point that the attitude of the person doing the restraining will have a lot to do with the level of stress the cat may experience.

In any training of cats, patience and love is the key.

Your arguments seem to make sense, but I am still not convinced it is a good idea to force a cat to stay in a litter box against her will.

 

[initforlove]

Originally Posted by otto

Yes, cats with UT problems need to drink more and pee more, however adding salt to a cat's diet is not the way to accomplish that.

Salt is not good for cats, and salt causes water retention.



Your arguments seem to make sense, but I am still not convinced it is a good idea to force a cat to stay in a litter box against her will.

yes that is why i do it very gently and no more than second attempt to leave the litter box and that was only the first 3 times that i did it - no need to any longer

these days there is no restraint of any sort - I place my cat in litter box and she squats for me if there is something in her bladder and I whisper good kitty and that is it

anyhow I really hope your furbaby drinks and pees more and may her condition be well stabilized and managed as soon as possible no matter which way you do what you do for her

 

[hissy]

I just want to chime in here to say that if your cat is peeing outside the box and has been to the vet and you have been told he is healthy- unless they do an cystocenteses (which is a needle draw from the bladder) any other way to obtain urine can result in a false-positive reading. If the cat has struvite stones or crystals, these can shift from time to time until they are dealt with.

I wouldn't advise anyone to forcibly keep their cat in a litter pan for any reason. And a swishing tail is the first indication that kitty is getting annoyed- then angry then who knows what will happen.

For a vet to tell you to give your kitty salt water would make me very uneasy and I would find a new vet PRONTO- Drinking salt water can lead to kidney damage, rapid dehydration and other issues.

I understand that you don't live in the United States and so the protocol may be quite different in your county- but please don't leave this type of advice here on these forums as a way for people to deal with outside-the-box peeing. When cats pee outside the box, there are always reasons why it is either health, environment (including stress) litter box maintanence, the type of litter used or they are sending messages to the other cats in the home and to the owner.

if anyone has pee issues with their cats- please see our reference post

http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9563


Thanks!

 

[momofmany]

I actually did a version of this with my Muddy after he was diagnosed with a FLUTD type disease and was under treatment. I needed to transition him back to using the litter box on a regular basis.

I started the process by giving him solid praise when I saw him go into the box and use it. When he hopped out I gave him extra love. After a while, I'd walk to the litter box and call him (Muddy almost always comes running). If he didn't hop in by his own, I placed him in it. If he hopped out right away, I didn't try to keep him there, but more often than not, he stayed and peed for me. He got praise and love afterwards. So he quickly learned that good litter box habits brought a positive reward, therefore he was glad to use it. It just took a couple of days to fully transition him back to using the litter box consistently again.

This is slightly different than the OP method, using positive reinforcement for good behavior, rather than trying to force what might be considered an unnatural behavior on a cat.

 

[initforlove]

Originally Posted by Momofmany

I actually did a version of this with my Muddy after he was diagnosed with a FLUTD type disease and was under treatment. I needed to transition him back to using the litter box on a regular basis.

I started the process by giving him solid praise when I saw him go into the box and use it. When he hopped out I gave him extra love. After a while, I'd walk to the litter box and call him (Muddy almost always comes running). If he didn't hop in by his own, I placed him in it. If he hopped out right away, I didn't try to keep him there, but more often than not, he stayed and peed for me. He got praise and love afterwards. So he quickly learned that good litter box habits brought a positive reward, therefore he was glad to use it. It just took a couple of days to fully transition him back to using the litter box consistently again.

This is slightly different than the OP method, using positive reinforcement for good behavior, rather than trying to force what might be considered an unnatural behavior on a cat.

ok for some reason some ppl here think i forced my cat and I did not

i did exactly what you say you did - I returned the cat to the litter box once - if it hopped out right away

the swishing tail episode had nothing to do with me - the cat was trying to make up her mind if she wanted to squat or to jump out and I had actually walked some distance away when she started the tail swishing

the thing about the vet telling me to give the cat more salt to make her drink more - that was salty food but for some reason someone has misinterpreted that to mean salty water

can you see that is the problem with a lot of the posters here - that you seem to be latching on to something and misinterpreting it in a way it was never meant

once again - I place my cat gently in the litter box and I stroke her gently and speak gently to her, I will place her in the litter box if she hops out right away but only once

she is not forced to sit there and get stressed because she is allowed to jump out right after that

I found that within a day of doing this the cats peed when i put them in the box and i praise them - there is no forcing or anger or stress going on and as I mentioned - I feel to remind your cat to pee is a good thing especially if your cat has peeing issues [but not instead of proper vet care - just as an adjunct to vet care] flushing the urinary system is good for kitty as it is for ppl - hence ppl are advised to drink 8 glasses of water a day lol

Cheers