The Biting Issue has Worsened

[duckdodgers]

I've asked on here before how to deal with Stella's biting issue, and despite attempting the suggestions things only seem to have gotten worse.  Today when I was holding her she bit me on the cheek.  I don't remember exactly what was happening, but I guess I looked down or something and she did it.  Didn't draw blood or anything, but that is just not acceptable.  I don't know if she was attempting to nip at my hand and my face got in the way, but I am not pleased.

I never, ever use any part of my body in play with her or encourage any sort of biting.  Hissing or growling does not deter her in the slightest anymore.  I basically roared at her today as a knee jerk reaction to biting my cheek, and she ran to the other side of the bed.  She gets regular play times with me, as well as my ferrets when they are out.  They've been here for about a month now, and they love each other.  I can't remember all of the suggestions that y'all had at the moment, but I have done my best to incorporate them into our lives. 

What can I do?  I like to think that she is not just a "mean cat".  She loves to play with and be around me, and she sleeps snuggled next to me at night.  She enjoys when visitors come over and likes to interact with them.  I am just getting worn out with this behavior, and tonight's act has left me even more frustrated.  It's not as though I can go her whole life without touching her, but I fear that she may escalate even worse. 

For what it's worth, she is 7 months, spayed in late January, and I have had her since she was about 5-6 weeks old.  Biting has been an issue since I got her, but I was hoping that with training and time that she would outgrow the behavior. 

 

[catspaw66]

Do you snuggle your ferrets up to your face?  Remember that they are part of the weasel family and are predators.  Maybe she is acting instinctively to their smell.  Even though she plays with them, she can react to the odor on you aggressively.

Try not snuggling the ferrets for a few days and see if that helps.

 

[cat person]

I've asked on here before how to deal with Stella's biting issue, and despite attempting the suggestions things only seem to have gotten worse. 

How old is Stella? Is Stella spayed? What breed/type of cat is Stella, if, applicable?

Today when I was holding her she bit me on the cheek.  I don't remember exactly what was happening, but I guess I looked down or something and she did it.  Didn't draw blood or anything, but that is just not acceptable. 

Does Stella, only bite you, when, you hold her?

I don't know if she was attempting to nip at my hand and my face got in the way, but I am not pleased.

I can understand why you where not pleased

.

I never, ever use any part of my body in play with her or encourage any sort of biting. 

That is, very very good

.

Hissing or growling does not deter her in the slightest anymore. 

Is she the only cat? If not, does Stella react appropriately to other cats hissing and growling at her? Or, is she the dominant cat in the household? Is Stella a completely indoor cat? If so, has Stella always been a completely indoor cat? Does she try to go outside at any opportunity?

I basically roared at her today as a knee jerk reaction to biting my cheek, and she ran to the other side of the bed. 

Can you possibly explain to me, what roared means in this context? I am guessing, you mean yelled, but, I just want to make sure. Yes, I can be mega ditsy.

She gets regular play times with me, as well as my ferrets when they are out.  They've been here for about a month now, and they love each other. 

Who, do you feel, is the "dominant" one(s) in the relationships? Meaning, the cat or the ferret(s)? Does Stella seem to have "limits" when playing with the ferrets?

I can't remember all of the suggestions that y'all had at the moment, but I have done my best to incorporate them into our lives. 

I never saw, any, of the previous posts, I am sorry.

What can I do? 

My major suggestion, from, living with hybrid exotic cats, pure exotics and the occasional very "odd" domestic, I can say this: 1) Some cats do not tolerate being held, 2) When a cat, whatever species, bites you, DO NOT SHOW FEAR. Lastly, when you have a bitty cat, always, keep a sock and or a stuffed animal handy. When the cat, bites you, stay calm and shoved the above item, in the cats mouth. Then, and only then, walk away CALMLY. Also, have you tried Bitter Apple spray? Have you tried Tabasco sauce? Meaning, have you tried to put them on your hands intermittently to discourage biting?

I like to think that she is not just a "mean cat".  She loves to play with and be around me, and she sleeps snuggled next to me at night.  She enjoys when visitors come over and likes to interact with them. 

Stella, does not sound like a "mean" cat, from your description, at least, in my humble opinion.

I am just getting worn out with this behavior, and tonight's act has left me even more frustrated.  It's not as though I can go her whole life without touching her, but I fear that she may escalate even worse. 

I am not sure, what to say or how to help, on that issue. I am sorry

.

For what it's worth, she is 7 months, spayed in late January, and I have had her since she was about 5-6 weeks old. 

Are you saying, Stella, was spayed around 5 months old? If so, it can take a few months for the hormones to "calm down", in my experience. When you first got Stella, was she the only cat in your household? Do you know, if, she had any siblings, to teach her "how to act"? Was she raised by a mother cat or was she bottle fed?

Biting has been an issue since I got her,

How many times, has, Stella bitten you? Have you noticed any pattern to Stella's biting episodes?

but I was hoping that with training and time that she would outgrow the behavior. 

I am fairly sure, it will get sorted out

.

 

[duckdodgers]

Do you snuggle your ferrets up to your face?  Remember that they are part of the weasel family and are predators.  Maybe she is acting instinctively to their smell.  Even though she plays with them, she can react to the odor on you aggressively.

Try not snuggling the ferrets for a few days and see if that helps.

I do snuggle with them, though not usually with my face.  This has been an issue since before I got them, though the face bite was a one-time very recent event.

 

[duckdodgers]

How old is Stella? Is Stella spayed? What breed/type of cat is Stella, if, applicable?

She is ~7 months old, spayed.  Just a generic formerly feral DSH kitten

Does Stella, only bite you, when, you hold her?

Not necessarily, she will when I try to pick her up or if she is lying there and I'm petting her.

Is she the only cat? If not, does Stella react appropriately to other cats hissing and growling at her? Or, is she the dominant cat in the household? Is Stella a completely indoor cat? If so, has Stella always been a completely indoor cat? Does she try to go outside at any opportunity?

No, I also have a 17 year old female.  No, she does not react appropriately to hissing/growling from Alafair.  Despite all of the playing that I do with her she still seems completely enthralled by her elderly sister and attempts play.  This consists of her jumping on Alafair, Alafair hissing and growling, and Stella ignoring her complaints.  I try to prevent this by redirecting her to a more appropriate activity such as wrestling with a stuffed animal or chasing a toy, but occasionally I miss things.  She has been completely indoor since I got her at about 6 weeks.  Prior to that she was born to a feral mother and I took her home the day she was captured.  She does try to go outside, but I usually only open the front door when she is locked in the back of the apartment.  I keep the cats separated when I am away to give the old lady a break from the pesky kitten.

Can you possibly explain to me, what roared means in this context? I am guessing, you mean yelled, but, I just want to make sure. Yes, I can be mega ditsy.

Yup, I just yelled pretty loudly.

Who, do you feel, is the "dominant" one(s) in the relationships? Meaning, the cat or the ferret(s)? Does Stella seem to have "limits" when playing with the ferrets?

I can't really tell.  The ferrets basically ignore her unless they are trying to play, but she will often follow them around and sometimes jump up behind them.  If they don't want to be around her they will hop away, and if she wants to avoid them she will jump up on the bed or something.  She doesn't not seem to be bothered by them, except for one time when I heard her hiss at one of them.  I think on that occasion she was sitting on her cat post with her tail swinging and one nipped at it.  That was several weeks ago. 

I never saw, any, of the previous posts, I am sorry.

That's fine!

My major suggestion, from, living with hybrid exotic cats, pure exotics and the occasional very "odd" domestic, I can say this: 1) Some cats do not tolerate being held, 2) When a cat, whatever species, bites you, DO NOT SHOW FEAR. Lastly, when you have a bitty cat, always, keep a sock and or a stuffed animal handy. When the cat, bites you, stay calm and shoved the above item, in the cats mouth. Then, and only then, walk away CALMLY. Also, have you tried Bitter Apple spray? Have you tried Tabasco sauce? Meaning, have you tried to put them on your hands intermittently to discourage biting?

I try to carry around a toy, but it always seems that I'm caught without one when I really need it.  I'll need to be more consistent there.  I will try the bitter apple on the hand thing!  I've met numerous bitey adult cats and understand that many of them just do not tolerate being held or petted.  However, I mostly attributed it to the way that they were raised or a lack of proper interaction.  I've only had three kittens in my life, but I just kind of assumed that with proper training and upbringing that this wouldn't be an issue.  How naive of me

Are you saying, Stella, was spayed around 5 months old? If so, it can take a few months for the hormones to "calm down", in my experience. When you first got Stella, was she the only cat in your household? Do you know, if, she had any siblings, to teach her "how to act"? Was she raised by a mother cat or was she bottle fed?

She was spayed at the end of January, and was apparently in heat when the surgery was done.  I noticed no physical or behavioral changes to indicate the heat, and was quite surprised when they told me.  I had my elderly cat when I brought her home, but they were not officially introduced until she had been here for a couple of weeks.  I initially had no intentions of keeping her because of the old lady cat, but it was either keep her or give her to animal control.  She was raised by a feral mother until capture (a campus police officer literally grabbed her out of a bush, and he gave her to me), so I am assuming that there were also siblings present.  I think that I saw the mother, and she appeared to be very young.  Still almost a kitten herself.  Even if she did have siblings, she was taken away from them far too young.  It beats growing up a feral kitty though. 

How many times, has, Stella bitten you? Have you noticed any pattern to Stella's biting episodes?

It's a daily thing.  The bites are not enormously hard and they do not draw blood, but it's fairly frequent.  Sometimes I see certain behaviors (tail twitching, laying ears back, sitting there with her mouth partly open and eyes wide, etc) and know to be careful, but sometimes it seems random.  Sometimes when I need to put her away when leaving the house I don't really have the time to check and be careful with her.

I am fairly sure, it will get sorted out

.

Thanks so much to both of you!!  She has been a perfect angel since yesterday, and I now feel that I overreacted a bit.  I do want to get the issue resolved though.

 

[di and bob]

Believe me, if she bit you being mean she would have laid your cheek open. It sounds like she's nipping you because she doesn't like something. If emitting a loud yell works to startle her try it again, ONLY when she bites you. You don't want her to be afraid of you, only associate something unpleasant that happens when she bites. I wouldn't recommend this usually, but it sounds like you are at your rope's end! I don't think she is doing it to be mean, I really think she doesn't realize she is doing something you don't like. Somehow you have to teach her that nipping is NOT allowed.

 

[cat person]

How old is Stella? Is Stella spayed? What breed/type of cat is Stella, if, applicable?

She is ~7 months old, spayed.  Just a generic formerly feral DSH kitten

From, reading your post, Stella, is TRULY a formally feral kitten and that IMHO makes a big difference in how you address yourself to her. Since, in my experience, kittens like Stella, have more in common, behaviorally speaking, with, the exotic and foundation hybrid cats, that, I have owned over the years.

Does Stella, only bite you, when, you hold her?

Not necessarily, she will when I try to pick her up or if she is lying there and I'm petting her.

When, you are touching her and Stella is laying there, does, she seem like she is sleepy or overstimulated? Or, does Stella, "randomly" bite you?

Is she the only cat? If not, does Stella react appropriately to other cats hissing and growling at her? Or, is she the dominant cat in the household? Is Stella a completely indoor cat? If so, has Stella always been a completely indoor cat? Does she try to go outside at any opportunity?

No, I also have a 17 year old female. 

That is in your favor. Though, the 17 year old cat, is most likely too old, to be bothered with Stella and in my humble opinion rightly so

.

No, she does not react appropriately to hissing/growling from Alafair. 

That, is very very important to note, in my humble opinion.

Despite all of the playing that I do with her she still seems completely enthralled by her elderly sister and attempts play. 

I am NOT normally, a big proponent of getting a domestic kitten/cat a friend, but, in this case it might be helpful. To you, to Alafair and to Stella.

This consists of her jumping on Alafair, Alafair hissing and growling, and Stella ignoring her complaints. 

How long have they been interacting together?

I try to prevent this by redirecting her to a more appropriate activity such as wrestling with a stuffed animal or chasing a toy, but occasionally I miss things.

It sounds like, you are doing everything right. We ALL miss things, since: we all go to work, go to school, have a life, have kids, you get the idea. Hopefully, you get the idea

.

 She has been completely indoor since I got her at about 6 weeks.

Now, I have a VERY different view, regarding, domestic cats, then, almost anyone on this forum

. All, the domestic cats, I have ever had, where, indoor/outdoor cats. With the exception of one, that was mentioned, on this forum, who, willingly lived inside by her own choosing. She, was terminally ill, with, a rare form of enzymatic disorder. So, she, lived inside full time with my F3 Savannah. They where best buds. But, any domestic, that, I ever tried to keep inside 24/7 went crazy and or drove me crazy! My hybrids, where, strictly indoor pets, for selfish reasons. One, I did not want to worry about, them, getting a disease from a feral cat, while, they where in their enclosure. Two, since, they both (F1 Bengal and F3 Savannah) had immaculate litter box habits, I did not want to change that. BUT, it cost me. I had double door entries on my home, since, they always tried to escape. The F3 Savannah, far worse, then the F1 Bengal. Plus, whenever, I was not home, I had a cat safe room, they could stay in. Or, they would destroy my home. By destroy, I mean breaking anything! My pure male Serval, had, a very large enclosure that, was attached to a room of my home. That room, was tiled and had Lexan on the walls. Yes, he sprayed. This is normal for exotics, but, required a TON of cleaning on my part. Now, my current two DSH's. One, if, she is kept inside against her will does spray. Plus, she gets very aggressive. But, letting her outside, keeps her and me happy and calm. The other one, is, around 14 years old and just stays on my deck and comes in and out at will

. I mean, so, does the other one. But, she loves to go outside on my property and go hunting

.

  Prior to that she was born to a feral mother and I took her home the day she was captured.

You took on a lot and I must commend you. Since, I am sure you know, that, a kitten, that, was not handled in the first six weeks of life, is a very challenging companion animal.

  She does try to go outside,

1) Can you let her outside? Even if, it is just on a harness and leash? 2) Would you be willing to let her outside "unattended", if, it was possible?
 

but I usually only open the front door when she is locked in the back of the apartment. 

That is how, I lived with my hybrids, so, I have a great deal of sympathy, for, your current situation

.

I keep the cats separated when I am away to give the old lady a break from the pesky kitten.

That, is very very very very wise!!!

Can you possibly explain to me, what roared means in this context? I am guessing, you mean yelled, but, I just want to make sure. Yes, I can be mega ditsy.

Yup, I just yelled pretty loudly.

Well, at least, you got your point across.

Who, do you feel, is the "dominant" one(s) in the relationships? Meaning, the cat or the ferret(s)? Does Stella seem to have "limits" when playing with the ferrets?

I can't really tell.  The ferrets basically ignore her unless they are trying to play, but she will often follow them around and sometimes jump up behind them.  If they don't want to be around her they will hop away, and if she wants to avoid them she will jump up on the bed or something.  She doesn't not seem to be bothered by them, except for one time when I heard her hiss at one of them.  I think on that occasion she was sitting on her cat post with her tail swinging and one nipped at it.  That was several weeks ago. 

From that description, I can't tell either

. But, Stella, clearly has limitations. Since, she is not constantly stalking or trying to injure the ferrets. Furthmore, since, she will jump away from them, you know, Stella, has gotten bitten, at least once, she, knows when to "submit". Those, are all good, normal, healthy signs.

I never saw, any, of the previous posts, I am sorry.

That's fine!

Thank you, for, being so understanding.

My major suggestion, from, living with hybrid exotic cats, pure exotics and the occasional very "odd" domestic, I can say this: 1) Some cats do not tolerate being held, 2) When a cat, whatever species, bites you, DO NOT SHOW FEAR. Lastly, when you have a bitty cat, always, keep a sock and or a stuffed animal handy. When the cat, bites you, stay calm and shoved the above item, in the cats mouth. Then, and only then, walk away CALMLY. Also, have you tried Bitter Apple spray? Have you tried Tabasco sauce? Meaning, have you tried to put them on your hands intermittently to discourage biting?

I try to carry around a toy, but it always seems that I'm caught without one when I really need it.  I'll need to be more consistent there.

Yes, I learned, that, consistency with that, is, very very helpful

.

 I will try the bitter apple on the hand thing! 

Just, so you know, some, domestic cats like it (Bitter Apple). But, my F3 Savannah and pure male Serval, learned, to not play bite, via, Bitter Apple and Tabasco Sauce

. I know, they, where play biting cause, they purred and drooled on me as they did it. But, boy o boy, did it still hurt and needed to stop

.

I've met numerous bitey adult cats and understand that many of them just do not tolerate being held or petted. 

It is good you know/understand that

.

However, I mostly attributed it to the way that they were raised or a lack of proper interaction. 

Yes, I suspect, you are a hundred percent correct!!! I am not sure, how, to "fix it"

. I must commend you, for, keeping her and not giving her away!!!!!!!!!!!

I've only had three kittens in my life, but I just kind of assumed that with proper training and upbringing that this wouldn't be an issue.  How naive of me

I don't think, you, where naive

. I think, you, are doing just fine

!

Are you saying, Stella, was spayed around 5 months old? If so, it can take a few months for the hormones to "calm down", in my experience. When you first got Stella, was she the only cat in your household? Do you know, if, she had any siblings, to teach her "how to act"? Was she raised by a mother cat or was she bottle fed?

She was spayed at the end of January, and was apparently in heat when the surgery was done.  I noticed no physical or behavioral changes to indicate the heat, and was quite surprised when they told me. 

Of course, ask the veterinarian, but, it can take a few months, for, the hormones to calm down. Though, you didn't see any behaviors, that, indicated she was in heat, so, yet again, I am not sure

.

I had my elderly cat when I brought her home, but they were not officially introduced until she had been here for a couple of weeks.  I initially had no intentions of keeping her because of the old lady cat, but it was either keep her or give her to animal control.  She was raised by a feral mother until capture (a campus police officer literally grabbed her out of a bush, and he gave her to me), so I am assuming that there were also siblings present.  I think that I saw the mother, and she appeared to be very young.  Still almost a kitten herself.  Even if she did have siblings, she was taken away from them far too young. 

I would say, you are doing a great thing, by, keeping Stella. Sadly, I suspect the lack of social interaction, with people during the critical six (6) weeks is affecting her personality. Also, as I said, well, wrote earlier

, I have never made domestic cats, live indoors completely. Unless, they choose to do so. Since, every domestic cat, that, I tried to make into an indoor cat, went bunkers or drove me bonkers. Again, I am very different, from, most people on this forum. But, I truly belive, that, domestic cats, can safely go in and out at will. Hence, making, a happier cat and human relationship

.

It beats growing up a feral kitty though. 

That is very very very true

.

How many times, has, Stella bitten you? Have you noticed any pattern to Stella's biting episodes?

It's a daily thing. 

Ugh, again, I must say, you are a GREAT person, for, keeping the cat. Most people would not.

The bites are not enormously hard and they do not draw blood,

I am very very glad to hear that

. Since, that, indicates, the bites are not meant to be agressive

.

but it's fairly frequent. 

That isn't good, for, the "cat human relationship" in my experience. 

Sometimes I see certain behaviors (tail twitching, laying ears back, sitting there with her mouth partly open and eyes wide, etc) and know to be careful,

Do you touch her, when, she is exibiting any or all of those behaviors? When, does Stella, lay her ears back at you? My hybrids and exotics NEVER did that to me. Even, all but one, of the domestics, I have owned, almost never did that. Again, I commend you for keeping Stella.

but sometimes it seems random.  Sometimes when I need to put her away when leaving the house I don't really have the time to check and be careful with her.

Yea, that, is where an unsocilized or improperly socilized domestic isn't pleasent. I would say, try, and lure her into her room. Use some small treats, a toy, or something like that. If, that does not work, make sure, to protect yourself. A domestic cat bite, is NOTHING you want!

I am fairly sure, it will get sorted out

.

Thanks so much to both of you!! 

I hope, that, I was somewhat helpful. Please note, my responces, are in blue this time

.

She has been a perfect angel since yesterday, and I now feel that I overreacted a bit.

Any bites, to my face, would upset me. So, I do not see it as "overracting".

I do want to get the issue resolved though.

I do not blame you, one little bit!

 

[duckdodgers]

From, reading your post, Stella, is TRULY a formally feral kitten and that IMHO makes a big difference in how you address yourself to her. Since, in my experience, kittens like Stella, have more in common, behaviorally speaking, with, the exotic and foundation hybrid cats, that, I have owned over the years.

I have had limited experience with handling feral cats, and expected it to take a long time for her to learn to trust me.  I brought her home in a cardboard box, and was more than a bit wary of her when I took the lid off of the box to find this very hostile tiny cat.  I wanted to make sure that she did not have fleas, so I waited a few hours and scooped her up using an oven mitt.  She basically took on the consistency of a limp rag at that point and allowed me to bathe and dry her.  I was shocked to find that this feral kitten went from hostile to very tolerant of me in less than a day.  She would still hiss if I took a wrong step, coughed, or looked at her funny, but it led me to believe that she was less wary of humans than I originally thought.  Maybe someone had been feeding them, or she had seen numerous people walking around on the college campus and no one had hurt her.  None of the adult cats out there go anywhere near humans, but the kittens will sometimes venture much closer. 

Not necessarily, she will when I try to pick her up or if she is lying there and I'm petting her.

When, you are touching her and Stella is laying there, does, she seem like she is sleepy or overstimulated? Or, does Stella, "randomly" bite you?

Usually when she is sleepy she does not do anything but purr.  I guess it occurs more often when she is overstimulated, but it does not take much to get her to that point. 

That is in your favor. Though, the 17 year old cat, is most likely too old, to be bothered with Stella and in my humble opinion rightly so

.

Ha yeah, I try to make sure that she does not antagonize Alafair too much.  I like having two cats, but I can't seem to find a balance between letting Stella take advantage of her and letting Alafair have her space.  They had a proper and lengthy introduction process, but almost any Stella is too much for Alafair.  I guess it's also worth noting that Alafair hates almost any person that is not myself, but she does tolerate play with my parents' dogs.  She's a strange little animal. 

That, is very very important to note, in my humble opinion.

The strange thing is that hissing used to be a big deal to her as a young kitten.  If I sneezed, coughed, or made any noise that sounded like hissing Stella would loudly hiss back, arch her back, and sometimes hide.  Over time hissing noises has become less of a behavioral deterrent.  She will still hiss at other things, such as if her tail gets stepped on accidentally.

I am NOT normally, a big proponent of getting a domestic kitten/cat a friend, but, in this case it might be helpful. To you, to Alafair and to Stella.

Getting another cat/kitten is something that seems like a great idea, but is unfortunately not in the cards right now for various reasons.  Partially due to lifestyle, money, I'm going to be moving soon, and my dad (my apartment is in his name) will not allow it.  Oh, and apartment pet restrictions >_<

How long have they been interacting together?

I began allowing limited interactions in the same room since Stella was about 9 weeks.  Prior to that I wasn't going to keep her and didn't want to stress Alafair out with a newcomer that wasn't going to stay.  It took another week to get her checked out by the vet, but I started allowing them to paw at each other from under the door once Stella got here, exchange blanket scents and the like at about 7-8 weeks.  They have been interacting on a daily basis since. 

It sounds like, you are doing everything right. We ALL miss things, since: we all go to work, go to school, have a life, have kids, you get the idea. Hopefully, you get the idea

.

Haha, yup.  Life gets in the way of the cats!

Now, I have a VERY different view, regarding, domestic cats, then, almost anyone on this forum

. All, the domestic cats, I have ever had, where, indoor/outdoor cats. With the exception of one, that was mentioned, on this forum, who, willingly lived inside by her own choosing. She, was terminally ill, with, a rare form of enzymatic disorder. So, she, lived inside full time with my F3 Savannah. They where best buds. But, any domestic, that, I ever tried to keep inside 24/7 went crazy and or drove me crazy! My hybrids, where, strictly indoor pets, for selfish reasons. One, I did not want to worry about, them, getting a disease from a feral cat, while, they where in their enclosure. Two, since, they both (F1 Bengal and F3 Savannah) had immaculate litter box habits, I did not want to change that. BUT, it cost me. I had double door entries on my home, since, they always tried to escape. The F3 Savannah, far worse, then the F1 Bengal. Plus, whenever, I was not home, I had a cat safe room, they could stay in. Or, they would destroy my home. By destroy, I mean breaking anything! My pure male Serval, had, a very large enclosure that, was attached to a room of my home. That room, was tiled and had Lexan on the walls. Yes, he sprayed. This is normal for exotics, but, required a TON of cleaning on my part. Now, my current two DSH's. One, if, she is kept inside against her will does spray. Plus, she gets very aggressive. But, letting her outside, keeps her and me happy and calm. The other one, is, around 14 years old and just stays on my deck and comes in and out at will

. I mean, so, does the other one. But, she loves to go outside on my property and go hunting

.

I too believe that in many situations cats can go outdoors safely.  As far as I'm concerned it depends mostly on where you live- my parents have 4 acres that are off from the main road and back up to a swamp.  Jason loves his life as an outdoor cat there, though I would allow him inside more frequently than my father does.  He only takes him and puts him in an indoor room if it's really cold or stormy.  He's a happy cat that loves to bring us dead things, but our property is relatively safe.  Unfortunately many people who live in neighborhoods with small lots next to a major road are, at least to me, taking too great of a risk keeping a cat outdoors.  It's one thing tn   o let it roam your patio safely, but another to let it roam in hostile neighbors' yards and out with cars.  I happen to live in an apartment complex that has cars coming in and out, and there is a strict no outdoor cat rule.  My next place will likely be similar, but hopefully have a bricked-in patio that Stella and the ferrets can take advantage of!

I am impressed by the amount of work that people put into keeping exotics.  For the most part I am against keeping "wild" animals, but so many folks seem to do a great job creating the ideal situation for them!

You took on a lot and I must commend you. Since, I am sure you know, that, a kitten, that, was not handled in the first six weeks of life, is a very challenging companion animal.

Honestly, my original intentions were to take her home, get her spayed, and either release her as a semi-tame barn cat or back where she was found in an altered state if taming wasn't possible.  I changed my mind after she proved to be a sweet and friendly cat and attempted to find her a home.  At the time I thought it was just teething/play biting that would be outgrown soon.  For that reason I am glad that I decided to keep her.

1) Can you let her outside? Even if, it is just on a harness and leash? 2) Would you be willing to let her outside "unattended", if, it was possible?
 

Not really right now.  I have tried with the harness and she did not take particularly well to it once the leash was attached.  I haven't been working with it as of late, so I suppose I should try again.  Like I have said, I would let her outside, maybe unattended, if I was comfortable with our surroundings.  Right now I am not. 

That is how, I lived with my hybrids, so, I have a great deal of sympathy, for, your current situation

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Thanks!

That, is very very very very wise!!!

It just doesn't seem fair to constantly subject her to a rowdy kitten that she did not want and does not appreciate! 

From that description, I can't tell either

. But, Stella, clearly has limitations. Since, she is not constantly stalking or trying to injure the ferrets. Furthmore, since, she will jump away from them, you know, Stella, has gotten bitten, at least once, she, knows when to "submit". Those, are all good, normal, healthy signs.

I don't think they have bitten her on any other occasion- I supervise them fairly closely when they are out of their cage.  I think she just does not like them scurrying underfoot at every moment.  I am not at all concerned about the relationship between the three of them, mostly about the me-stella-alafair relationship.

Just, so you know, some, domestic cats like it (Bitter Apple). But, my F3 Savannah and pure male Serval, learned, to not play bite, via, Bitter Apple and Tabasco Sauce

. I know, they, where play biting cause, they purred and drooled on me as they did it. But, boy o boy, did it still hurt and needed to stop

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Heh, I just put some on my hand awhile ago, and she tried the bitey thing and gave me a surprised look.  Half an hour later she was sitting there licking my hand.  I'm hesitant to try the tabasco because I rub my eyes so much, and we all know the end result of that.  It may be worth a shot though!

Honestly, it doesn't hurt too badly since she has lost her kitten teeth.  It's still unpleasant though.

Yes, I suspect, you are a hundred percent correct!!! I am not sure, how, to "fix it"

. I must commend you, for, keeping her and not giving her away!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh, she hasn't done anything near bad enough to warrant giving her away!!  She's a handful, but it's all definitely worth it.

I would say, you are doing a great thing, by, keeping Stella. Sadly, I suspect the lack of social interaction, with people during the critical six (6) weeks is affecting her personality. Also, as I said, well, wrote earlier

, I have never made domestic cats, live indoors completely. Unless, they choose to do so. Since, every domestic cat, that, I tried to make into an indoor cat, went bunkers or drove me bonkers. Again, I am very different, from, most people on this forum. But, I truly belive, that, domestic cats, can safely go in and out at will. Hence, making, a happier cat and human relationship

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Here we're talking about all of her negative aspects, but I really do think that she's a great little cat.  She's a blast to have around, does funny things, and basically enriches life.  Unfortunately I do think that the lack of human interaction before 6 weeks, and a lack of mom/sibling interaction past 6 weeks has led to some problems.  They're worth working through though!

Ugh, again, I must say, you are a GREAT person, for, keeping the cat. Most people would not.

Like I said, it isn't too painful and no blood has ever been drawn.  I could see someone getting frustrated and getting rid of her though.  On the other hand, she has never had an accident outside of the litter box and has never scratched anything that she should not.  She has her good factors!

Do you touch her, when, she is exibiting any or all of those behaviors? When, does Stella, lay her ears back at you? My hybrids and exotics NEVER did that to me. Even, all but one, of the domestics, I have owned, almost never did that. Again, I commend you for keeping Stella.

I try to avoid it, but sometimes I don't notice or have to move her.  I haven't noticed a particular pattern in that behavior, but it's not so much pinning in the since that an angry cat would do.  Just sort of flattening them somewhat?  I wish I could get a video, but it's not like it's exactly a behavior I want to encourage for the sake of theatrics.  It sometimes goes kind of like this- flatten ears, go bug-eyed, open mouth a few centimeters, OMG HAND BITE, resume ear flattened, bug-eyed, mouth opened position.  Most of the time she doesn't give that much of an indication though.

Yea, that, is where an unsocilized or improperly socilized domestic isn't pleasent. I would say, try, and lure her into her room. Use some small treats, a toy, or something like that. If, that does not work, make sure, to protect yourself. A domestic cat bite, is NOTHING you want!

That's a good idea.  The bites do not seem dangerous, but I would like to avoid them for my sake and to not allow her to perform the behavior. 

 

[duckdodgers]

Believe me, if she bit you being mean she would have laid your cheek open. It sounds like she's nipping you because she doesn't like something. If emitting a loud yell works to startle her try it again, ONLY when she bites you. You don't want her to be afraid of you, only associate something unpleasant that happens when she bites. I wouldn't recommend this usually, but it sounds like you are at your rope's end! I don't think she is doing it to be mean, I really think she doesn't realize she is doing something you don't like. Somehow you have to teach her that nipping is NOT allowed.

Exactly- I guess that the term "nipping" may be better to use.  That sounds like a good plan though.

I think that this picture is perfect for the situation!