TEXT BOOK pregnancy...delivered 'something' ...NOT a baby???

[cccdlx]

Samantha is 2 1/4 years old.  She belongs to a friend and doesn't live with me full time. This is her first breeding to a non-sterile male. She is an indoor only cat.  I started mixing Royal Canin dry kitten in with her regular food soon after the mating. I also feed wet daily,  She was away from all other cats and progressed normally.  Weight gain was good for a first time. Pinked-up nicely and seemed to have lots of milk.  When labor began all was well.  I left for a few hours.  What I found in the nest when I got back in no way, shape, or form resembled a baby. It was bright red, 2"x3" and had a rubbery firmness to it.  She continued with the contractions the next morning.  What I saw protruding had even the vet puzzled.  She told me that may be a prolapse of some kind.  No surgery was necessary and Sam is fine now.  It's been over a month ago. Was this a False Pregnancy???  I thought they didn't go full term?

I'll try again to send the pics I took.  Unless it might be better to send them in a PM.

 

[cccdlx]

I put the picture of the 'thing' in my default album.  So if anyone out there knows about this please clue me in.  Thanks:-)

 

[StefanZ]

Prolapses do occur now and then. Although not common with cats. More common with pigs for example. 

If this thing departed, my guess it was a "monster".   Ie a more or less deformed kitten.  Which happens now and then, with kittens like with humans, and others.

You were lucky it wasnt alive, so you werent faced with the necessity of  choosing to try and keep it alive, or sending it on as soon practically possible.

Good luck!

 

[cccdlx]

Thank You StefanZ

The thing was not a kitten.  Flat as a pancake.  There was very little blood.  (the pic of it is in my TCS default album) Certainly not enough to be evidence o a birth.  However, she was sure there was a baby.  When we got back from the vet, Sam searched frantically or it.  I did my best to help her find it.  Poor girl.  It took her several days to clam down.  I even tried to find some orphans for her to nurse. 

The prolapse resolved itself and Samantha is all recovered. 

 

[maewkaew]

Ever see a placenta?    because that would have been my thought.  a placenta or part of one.   They're around that size, they are red,  they're sort of like a slab of liver and the texture looks more like a placenta than  an undeveloped fetus.  

If it was a placenta,  the question is,  so what happened to the kitten?    all i can think is maybe while you were gone, she had a stillborn  fetus and consumed it. (or had multiple stillborns & placentas and ate everything but that one bit.) 

And do you mean the next morning she was still contracting,   and at that point you saw something different  protruding,  but it went back in???     A uterine prolapse would look like a red sausage sticking out of her, it would  be still attached.     I've seen photos of it.     Is that what it looked like?  if it was a prolapsed uterus it's lucky it went back in on its own. 

Have you had her t the vet to make sure she doesn't have anything else in her?   It does seem like she would be very ill if that were the case,  but I've heard ofa  a cat  getting ill a couple months later due to retained fetal or placental tissue.   

If you ( or your friend)  could  just have her spayed now,  that would  remove any risk along with removing the organs.    It sounds like you meant this was an intentional breeding.    

 

[StefanZ]

I agree with Maew.

Also, I did found now afterwards that pic, and yes, it is much sooner a placenta than a deformed kitten.

Besides, IF it was a deformed kitten, it should have the placenta with it anyway.

 

[cccdlx]

I guess I've seen one now. I've seen amniotic sacs ...BIG difference!!!

She had a pause of about 10 hours before the contractions increased to a couple about two to three minutes apart. Very mild. I stayed by her side. That's when the prolapse appeared. A QUICK TRIP TO THE VET!!!! X-rays showed she had nothing left to expel. THANK GOD Not enough stains in the nest to give evidence of more than that one. I thoroughly scoured the room also.

I'm not ready to spay her just yet. This was her first try. Yes it was intentional. Her bloodlines goes back to the original Desert Lynx. I do want to wait until next year before I bring her back the the big guy.

 

[maewkaew]

 ,  I would recommend getting her checked to make sure she is cleaned out.    and you might consider antibiotics before the next breeding.  Clearly something went wrong and it's hard to say if it was genetic  or an infection like Strep G  or what.   

I dont' know how many heats she had before breeding.  but over 2 yrs old is a bit late for a first breeding in most cats. . If she did have a lot of heats without breeding that can lead to cystic endometrial hyperplasia,  which may cause infertility or early embryonic death. .

Keep in mind if she really did prolapse  she might do it again and worse.   So if you breed her again and she starts labor you need to have an adult stay home with her.    

  It  may be a good idea to see a reproduction specialist.    

 You  definitely  need a good breeding mentor .   

  Are you a member of a breed club ?  (IS there still an active breed club for Desert Lynx?)  are breeders working together to breed to a standard? 

 I hope  you do have some  way of tracking pedigrees and figuring out inbreeding coefficents?   

 I know the Desert Lynx isn't currently accepted  by any major cat association   and  I can see there would be some major roadblocks  due to the similarities with recognized breeds like the Pixie-bob and American Bobtail.    Is there a way to incorporate with one of those breeds?      It would be nice if there were a way to join the wider cat fancy.  What is the difference in the standards between DL and those 2 breeds?    

 I know  the Highlanders are in Preliminary New Breed in TICA.  and that was the Highland Lynx which is similar to Desert Lynx but with curled ears....but that would mean the ones with normal ears are non standard and could not be shown if the breed does get to championship. 

   

 

[cccdlx]

I truelly appreciate your knowledgable responses. As you can tell, I am a novice. I do hate the idea of an unattended delivery. 

The vet exam that day showed that there was nothing.  She doesn't live with me all the time.  The male she has been with for the last two years is shooting blanks.

No to this... 'a way of tracking pedigrees and figuring out inbreeding coefficents.'  I am thinking a genetic problem.  Breeding NST to NST.  Frosty has Japanese Bobtail in his top line, but he may have gotten the manx gene instead.  NOT GOOD That's one of the things I plan to look into. No plans for Samantha until sometime next year. I'm in no hurry.  I have absolutely no profit motive whatsoever.  The whole idea of "making a 'profit" is laughable to me.  Ieven lost a potential partner because she figured out it's mostly red ink.  Fine with me.  I want to take care o my friends better than that.

,

As for mentor...I am in touch with several people that have been helping me along.  Even if they aren't involved with the DLX they are always kind, generous and willing to share thier wisdom.  I am a firm beleiver in a multitude of counsel.  The REFR doesn't even have a code of ethics or cattery standards.

I don't there is such a thing as a cat specialist much less a reproductive one around here.  I'm still looking.

I put a little bit about the Desert Lynx/Highland Lynx connection in my post in the new cats thread. It's complicated and it's taken me a long time to untangle some o the information.  Several different naturally short tailed breed were there in the beginning, including Bobcat.  (Through AI)

Thank You again