Terrible Introduction - Advice Please

[seekstris]

Hello All,

I am new to the site, and have come really in despair trying to get advice after talking to almost everyone I know about cats.

So to start our first cat is a female Burmese (Prin) who we have had since a kitten, and is now almost 2 years old. We wanted to get her a friend so got another female Burmese kitten (Ori) who we have now had for around a month. Both are house cats and the original cat had been a lone cat, which may have made things difficult, however she did visit other cats on a fairly frequent (bi-monthly) basis when we visited my parents for various things.

We did the research and read the articles, and initially separated the rooms and kept them separate and scent swapped. Half a week in we started letting them see each other through a crack in the door which seemed to go well, so after a full week we tried to introduce them face to face.

and this really is where the nightmare started. It seemed to go well with some sniffing but then the original cat attacked and we separated. The next time there was no sniffing and the next time there was literally fur flying. We then went back to square one. After about two weeks of that the original cat managed to get into the "safe" room and again there was fur flying before we could break it up (and I was an unfortunate casualty getting mauled when breaking it up).

So we went back to the start again. Throughout this we also swap the rooms etc to let the little one have a bit of a run about. At the advice of our vet we put the original cat into a cat carrier and place this next to the cat fence. The problem is as soon as the kitten sees the original cat she hides under the bed in her room literally as far away as possible and we cant get her to come out.

My plan was to do the cat carrier exercise on a frequent basis until it all settled down and the original isn't trying to dig out and be aggressive and the kitten feels comfortable but all she does is hide so I have no idea how I can achieve this.

I really would appreciate any advice as almost no one I has talked to has had a bad introduction and the advice online I can find doesn't cover this. It is stressing me and my partner out, especially as we have grown to love both cats now.

 

[Desertmouse]

Aww poor kitties, it sounds like it’s been stressful for everyone involved! It sounds like you have been doing things right, so don’t feel like you did something wrong.

Have you been giving the cats treats when they get near each other? Can Prin reach Ori in the carrier? Would it be safe to put the carrier in the middle of a room with you and Prin and then try playing with Prin, giving her loves and treats and just showing her live is good with Ori in the room? If yes, I might also try reversing the roles.

Unfortunately it sounds like poor Ori has lost some confidence because of the attacks. I’m your place I would spend some time down on her level doing whatever (reading, working on tablet ect). Try and avoid loud noises until she seems more confident, give her lots of praise in a soft high voice and of course treats and play (with her winning).

Good luck! I’m sorry things are not going great just yet but don’t give up hope!

 

[seekstris]

Thanks for the reply

So we have always tried to end on a positive and tried the distraction but its tricky as Ori just wants to play (being a kitten) and the normally playfull Prin wants food. However when face to face neither are interested in play or food respectively.

When the origonal cat (Prin) is in the basket its safe for Ori but she won't play or do anything but hide which is what worries me. I didnt want to put Ori in the basket because would that not stress her out if Prin tries to attack the basket as there is no way of escaping?

In terms of confidence Ori is actually fine most the time, its only when she sees the origional cat that she cowers and hides. The rest of the time she is playful and boisterous and she is now fine round the rest of the house. There was a period where she wouldnt go into the hall or the dining room (where two of the attacks happened), but she is over that now and is fairly confident everywhere.

 

[Desertmouse]

Thanks for the reply

So we have always tried to end on a positive and tried the distraction but its tricky as Ori just wants to play (being a kitten) and the normally playfull Prin wants food. However when face to face neither are interested in play or food respectively.

When the origonal cat (Prin) is in the basket its safe for Ori but she won't play or do anything but hide which is what worries me. I didnt want to put Ori in the basket because would that not stress her out if Prin tries to attack the basket as there is no way of escaping?

In terms of confidence Ori is actually fine most the time, its only when she sees the origional cat that she cowers and hides. The rest of the time she is playful and boisterous and she is now fine round the rest of the house. There was a period where she wouldnt go into the hall or the dining room (where two of the attacks happened), but she is over that now and is fairly confident everywhere.

Hmm...mind if I ask what kind of carrier you have? Is it possible for Prin to get her paw out to swipe at Ori?

It sounds like things are better then I thought anyways! In your place I would have Prin in her carrier in the middle of the room and have Ori join you guys, if you can play with her (pets, treats to if you want) a little bit away to make her comfortable and then let her explore a bit. If she just wants to hide even if you are a bit from the carrier then I would just leave her be and do whatever you would normally be doing. Hopefully Ori would get to the point where she will come explore and maybe sniff at the carrier. Of course if/when she comes out of hiding give her lots of praise/playtime/treats.

If your carrier is like mine I wouldn’t worry about having Ori in it, in fact it might be easier given that Prin probably sees the house as hers. But then you said basket so maybe your carrier is a lot different then mine. My thought is just to give Prin a chance to check out the new kitten without chancing Ori getting hurt.

 

[seekstris]

I've got two, but both theoretically from the cage she can get a paw out, but we put that up against the cat gate so the combination of the two make it almost impossible as Ori is the other side of the gate.

Its just terminology I think carrier/basket just me being silly and forgetting the word. It's like this () if I am allowed to post links. Its a fairly standard one.

So basically its just time. That makes me feel a little bit better. Prin really hates the cat carrier (as most cats do I guess) as she doesnt like the travel or vet association. So far I have been doing it for five minutes, but am I right by your suggestion to just leave her in there for a while in the middle of a big room and just be patient with it? And leave it for 10-15 mins even if Ori doesnt come out from hiding?

 

[rubysmama]

Hello and welcome to TCS. All the people you've talked to who have never had a bad cat introduction, are lucky. If you scan through this forum, you will see you are far from the only one with this problem. Eventually, though, most cats do learn to co-exist, and even become best buds.

TCS has an article on How To Fix An Unsuccessful Cat Introduction that may be helpful.

I'll post a few more that might have useful tips.
The Multi-cat Household
How To Safely Break Up A Cat Fight
How To Get A Cat To Come Out Of Hiding?
10 Must-know Tips For Happy Living With A Shy Cat

 

[Desertmouse]

Hmm...so my idea would be to let her be in the carrier without the cage in whatever room you were going to be in the most with both cats, one of the in the carrier. I THINK it would be alright to do with that carrier since if Prin does get a paw out she can always run away, but you might want to get a second opinion. I can say that it is what I would do, but I wouldn’t do it without being in the room to keep an eye on them. But really even if you just keep doing what you are I think it is going to help, it just might take a little longer. I would suggest upping the time to half an hour or even an hour if Prin will put with it.

You’re right about it taking time though, really any way you go about it, it’s going to take time. I wish I could think of another way to work with this that you haven’t already tried, I worry about forcing Prin into the carrier that she hates and her linking that to Ori....I hope someone will have better suggestions but this is all I can think of that you haven’t tried.

I used to think all cats hate carriers to, but I’ve found out that a lot of cats really like then and use them as a cat cave to feel safe. The suggestion that worked for me (until our small dog decided to take over the carrier I swear....) is I put it out in a quiet corner of her favorite room with a blanket she liked in it then I propped open the door so it couldn’t close on her and she started sleeping in it!

I’m sorry I’m not more help, I keep trying to think of something else but I’m just not sure

 

[seekstris]

Thanks Guys, I do appreciate the help. It makes me feel better that its not totally abnormal and that there is still hope. I think my key at the moment has to be to get the kitten to be a bit more confident around the other cat. So putting Prin in the basket is the best bet for now.

 

[seekstris]

Frustratingly had another turn of events today with misplaced aggression from the original cat prin.

We had had that early days but today the kitten was in a room that is not her safe room and prin was free around the rest of the house. She obviously knew the kitten was there as did spend a period trying to get into the door.

When we swapped them back first I had to pick her up to lock her into a room to allow for a safe return and she bit me on the arm hard multiple times in quick succession and then stopped. Then when we had swapped back I was laying on the sofa and she was sniffing my leg and then aggressively bit my leg. Thankfully she only got me once and the jeans then took the brunt.

If that continues I'll take her to the vet but just makes all of this much harder and more stressful on me and my partner.

 

[rubysmama]

Please be watchful of any bites that break the skin. And ensure you get immediate medical attention if they look at all infected.

Cat Bites - What Every Cat Owner Needs To Know

 

[Tobermory]

I don’t think anyone has suggested this yet, but you might try Feliway diffusers. Feliway is an artificial feline pheromone and there are two kinds. The original, which they’re calling Classic now, and newer the Multicat. Here are the descriptions from the website:

Feliway Classic: When comfortable and happy, cats mark their territory as familiar by rubbing their face against corners, furniture, people, or other cats at home. They leave an odorless message known as a feline facial pheromone. When present in the environment, these "happy messages" provide comfort and security to cats. By mimicking the natural feline reassuring messages, FELIWAY CLASSIC helps your cat happily adjust to pace of modern life. You can provide calming and comfort at home and help prevent or reduce urine spraying, scratching or hiding.​

Feliway Multicat: Mother cats communicate with her kittens through natural messages released into the air. These "harmony messages" are called cat appeasing pheromones. They help maintain social bonds between cats of all ages. By mimicking these natural feline appeasing messages, FELIWAY MultiCat helps your cats live in harmony and avoid tension, conflict and fighting.​

I’m currently using both. I adopted a three-year-old semi feral girl, Mocha, in the fall, and the two 13-year-old resident kitties, Lily and Iris, were very unhappy about it. In fact, Lily was angry and aggressive toward Mocha, who is not at all aggressive and loves other cats. I had prepared for her arrival by getting the Classic version to reduce everyone’s stress, but Lily continued to be so angry and upset that I also bought the Multicat. I had the Classic in Mocha’s safe room and both kinds plugged in in the room where Lily spends most of her time. I noticed a real improvement in Lily’s behavior.

When we swapped them back first I had to pick her up to lock her into a room to allow for a safe return and she bit me on the arm hard multiple times in quick succession and then stopped. Then when we had swapped back I was laying on the sofa and she was sniffing my leg and then aggressively bit my leg. Thankfully she only got me once and the jeans then took the brunt.

The Classic also comes in a spray form. I use it at home to keep Mocha from scratching the furniture, and we use it at the sanctuary where I volunteer to keep one of the cats from attacking our legs. Rio was previously in with the other kitties, but he hates other cats and was causing major bloodshed so now he’s the office kitty. But when we’ve beeen with the other cats, he can smell them on us and will go for our legs. So now we lightly mist our pants, wait a few minutes and then go into the office. It has stopped his attacks.

 

[seekstris]

Thanks for help. We are using both at the moment. The vet recommended it and said classic was actually better to stop aggression while the multicat will help them be closer friends when they are already friends (or something a bit more technical anyway)

I have the classic spray but haven't used it so thanks for the advice on when to use it. If it keeps going will give it a try, although if possible I think her smelling the scent on us is good (although if she attacks not so)

 

[Cjacob]

I am having the same issues as you are. I adopted a 1 1/2 year old female cat about a month ago and our resident 1 year old male is still acting very aggressive with her. It’s awful because the new cat really wants to explore but I can’t let her out with our resident cat as he keeps biting her neck to get her to submit. I’m trying frequent short visits and trying to make sure they end positively. Good luck and I hope they become friends or at least tolerate each other!

 

[seekstris]

I am having the same issues as you are. I adopted a 1 1/2 year old female cat about a month ago and our resident 1 year old male is still acting very aggressive with her. It’s awful because the new cat really wants to explore but I can’t let her out with our resident cat as he keeps biting her neck to get her to submit. I’m trying frequent short visits and trying to make sure they end positively. Good luck and I hope they become friends or at least tolerate each other!

Lets us know how you get on as its interesting to hear from someone in the same boat.

We have taken Ori away for the weekend to my parents who own Ori's mother. Ori is nervous when they are about but seems to be getting on with the other cat, not her mother though. She is fine and pretty brave when they are locked away in a seperate part of the house though.

 

[seekstris]

So bit of an update:

We have been swapping them almost contentiously and making it more even eg Ori spends one night out and Prin spends the next and we swap them over every few hours.

Ori is now getting braver and will go up to the cat basket and sniff around a bit. She still keeps her distance a little and is obviously nervous but if it keeps progressing it wont be long until she comfortable

After that the plan is to put Ori in the cat basket and have princess outside. Can anyone give some advice on what to do if Princess does attack the cat box? I know most guides say ignore her or something is that still valid? Or should we spray her with water?

 

[rubysmama]

Thanks for the update. Glad things are continuing to progress.

I can't advise on how to respond if Princess attacks the cat box, but please don't spray her with water.

The following article lists 5 Reasons To Never Spray Water On Your Cat

 

[Desertmouse]

So bit of an update:

We have been swapping them almost contentiously and making it more even eg Ori spends one night out and Prin spends the next and we swap them over every few hours.

Ori is now getting braver and will go up to the cat basket and sniff around a bit. She still keeps her distance a little and is obviously nervous but if it keeps progressing it wont be long until she comfortable

After that the plan is to put Ori in the cat basket and have princess outside. Can anyone give some advice on what to do if Princess does attack the cat box? I know most guides say ignore her or something is that still valid? Or should we spray her with water?

I wouldn’t spray her with water. Cats tend to associate that with the one doing the spraying and it can do bad things to your relationship. If you need to do something like that I understand that noise is better, so something like coins in a tin can. Ideally you would want to watch the body language and if she starts showing aggressive signs (like the tail moving back and forth very fast with the ears back and whatnot) you redirect with play. That would be ideal, but things rarely go in an ideal way and I’m not sure how realistic it is to ask you to watch your cat constantly. If you do see it though I would put something between her and the cat carrier to break her line of slight before starting the play.

 

[seekstris]

So things in general have been going well. Have them in cat carrier and they are curious. Both ways things seem positive no fat tail or signs of aggressiveness. So we started to let then out.

Prin chased ori and ori hide under the sofa. That was really the pattern of it. We did thst 3 or 4 times. In general there was no aggression until the kitten ran. Then shed dig at the underside of the sofa for around 10 mins then shed sit and watch from a far. No fat tail after the first minute.

Today had a bit of a downer as the kitten was drinking and prin snuck up on her. The kitten saw too late and panicked and ran straight into her. Cue a ball of fur and meowing. Kitten seems okay mentally although has some large scratches. Was a bit jumpy but is back to being playful now.

This feels like a bit of a downer but going to go back to basket see how they react and if it's okay go back to out of the box introductions.

Does that sound like a good plan? Not sure what else I can do really