Tentatively Starting Raw

[aicha34]

I've been interested in trying raw for a while, and am finally starting to take the first few steps with our two kittens Luke and Leia (4.5 months). They're currently on a commercial canned diet.

I'm aiming for Prey Model Raw, although I'm still unsure whether to go all the way or do it in combination with some canned meals. I'm also not sure whether to give them real bones or supplement calcium, as I know my roommate is a bit unsure of the safety of giving them bones (and I'm worried about accurately giving the correct quantities 

).

To be honest, although I think it's the best nutritional option for them, I'm kind of terrified of the logistics of actually doing frankenprey! 

 I'm really worried about not getting the balance and quantities right, and inadvertently damaging their health by doing it wrong. I'm also concerned about whether I'll be able to source enough varieties of protein...

But I figure we can take it slowly, and I really want to get them eating at least some raw meals.

This site has already been immensely useful, and I sure I'll be relying on it a lot for more information as we get going! 

For now, here's a video we took of their first experience of raw chicken breast a few days ago. (Please excuse our giggling in the background; their growling was just too cute!)

They loved it! 

They've had a bit more mixed into their canned food and by itself over the last few days, and gobbled it down each time. I also mixed in a tiny bit of chicken kidney yesterday, which also went down a treat. So far so good!

 

[ritz]

Oh, adorable, funny video.  Thanks for sharing.

It seems like you're on the right path.

You can generally feed up to 15% raw without worrying about balancing.

But more than that, yes, be conscientious about balancing.

Regarding bones:  do what you feel comfortable.  Today, supplemental calcium (I assume you have a reliable, steady source); tomorrow, bones.

I'm fascinated by what meat/protein/organs people in different countries have access to.  For example, some of our posters in Australia can get kangaroo.  In the USA, I'm lucky if I can get venison.

Being in Tokyo, what proteins do you have access to?  The rule of thumb is three proteins.

Oh, and try feeding your furballs liver--that's the litmus test!

 

[vball91]

That's terrific they loved it so! I love watching kittens eating raw meat. They just instinctively seem to know that it's good. Yes, there's no hurry to go all raw. Mixing raw and canned is fine indefinitely. I'm assuming you know about supplementing calcium using eggshell powder since it seems you've done some research already. It's just the easiest calcium to source since you can make it yourself. And it's easy to use. Calcium is especially important for growing kittens, so if you're not sure about bones yet, definitely try eggshell powder.

 

[aicha34]

An update and a question!

Last week they tried pork (gobbled down), and also shared a raw egg yolk (didn't last long either). Yesterday I gave them a little chicken heart and liver (!!), which they also ate with no trouble! We're still at the stage of just trying out different proteins to experiment and see what they'll eat, but under 15% of their diet. More like treats, at the moment. I'm glad they've been so open to everything so far, and hope it continues! 

There is still a bit of hissing, growling, and swatting too... They get so protective of their food when it's real meat! But I love seeing them so enthusiastic about eating. They were like vultures with food before, but raw is definitely a different level again!

One issue is that Leia keeps wondering off with chunks of meat, and she flings it around a lot... --; I'm not sure if  it's because I'm cutting the pieces too big and she's struggling, or if she just likes to play with her food XD. Is this common?

Ritz, I've been investigating sourcing the meat. So far, in the local supermarkets I can find:

Pork: regular meat, liver (sometimes), heart

Beef: regular meat 

Chicken: meat (breast, thigh), liver, gizzards, wings, hearts

Duck: meat (but expensive)

I think I will have to rely heavily on ordering meat if they're going to get more variety (and for secreting organs), but I've found this site: http://www.themeatguy.jp/app/en/ (and English, hurray!)

They have things like whole rabbit (but not ground), quail, venison, lamb, kangaroo, and horse (actually one of the easiest meats to find in pet shops/online here). They also have liver from sources other than chicken.

Leia was eager to help me research:

image.jpeg

• aicha34
• Aug 27, 2013

I think my roommate thinks I've gone mad though! She's all for them eating some raw meat, but did cringe ask me why we couldn't just buy "normal" meat when I told her about the liver, heart, and gizzards XD. To be fair, preparing the liver and hearts wasn't massively fun for me either 

. 

I haven't started supplementing calcium yet, as we're feeding raw as such a tiny proportion of their diet, but I think I'll try making/buying eggshell powder this week!

A question: How do you determine overall quantities to feed with kittens? With canned I've never really weighed it out, and judge on how hungry they seem. But to get the proportions of meat to bones to organs, etc. right with raw it, takes a bit more forward planning. The kittens are both mixes, and I have no idea what their eventual sizes will be!

 

[vball91]

One issue is that Leia keeps wondering off with chunks of meat, and she flings it around a lot... --; I'm not sure if  it's because I'm cutting the pieces too big and she's struggling, or if she just likes to play with her food XD. Is this common?

A question: How do you determine overall quantities to feed with kittens? With canned I've never really weighed it out, and judge on how hungry they seem. But to get the proportions of meat to bones to organs, etc. right with raw it, takes a bit more forward planning. The kittens are both mixes, and I have no idea what their eventual sizes will be!

That's terrific that they are enjoying different proteins. The wandering off with chunks of meat seems to be normal for some cats. It may be that she's looking for a "safe" place to eat it, or she may just like to play with it (as if it was a mouse). This may stop on its own, or you may just have to bring her back to her placemat/eating place to try to train her to eat there.

It's the same with raw as for canned really for kittens. Figuring out how to feed them is just trial and error. It will take a little more planning with frankenprey until they are full grown and the amounts they eat stable. Most frankenprey feeders try to balance out the meat/bone/organs over the course of a week, rather than try to balance each meal (although some do that as well). One way you could do it is to prepare portions with the correct proportions for several days worth at a time. Then you could feed them as little or as much of it as needed. As long as they finish all of it, they are getting the proper proportions.

If you use eggshell, it's really easy to properly balance each meal. Organs typically aren't fed on their own since they are very rich and can cause a little digestive upset. So it would be easy to add 10% organs to the muscle meat, sprinkle the appropriate amount of eggshell, and serve. Here's a good thread on how much eggshell powder to use. http://www.thecatsite.com/t/263426/...hydroxyapatite-to-balance-meat-or-meat-organs