Study about cats and I think it's weird

[catlady76paws]

I've been part of a Facebook group, called Cat Behaviour and Welfare and is being run by people who did an education based on a study and just every fibre of me is screaming bullshit. It's a dutch page and to me it's wrong...

Just a little excerpt: "This fantastic 'litter box' is actually the bottom of a rabbit hutch, but of course this is exactly the size that suits a 5 star stay for the cat in the house. Did you know that cats want a box that is 90 cm long? And that they just don't even exist? That is why it is necessary to move to 'trays' that can serve perfectly as a litter box and this is an ideal example of this. Just for your information: you also need at least 2 'litter boxes' per cat and they should also be far from food/drink/litter boxes. in other words to be able to offer a cat in the house what it needs in terms of behavioral needs, you also need a lot of space for that. If you don't already have room for sufficient and sufficiently large litter boxes, then no cat will fit. Cats are simply animals that need a lot of space and unfortunately this is not known everywhere."

Now I don't mind big litter boxes, I took the bottom of a storage container for under the bed, to put down for our senior(14, bit overweight, maybe deaf and may have arthrosis) because she kept pooping outside of the regular litterbox(it works magnificent and hubby is not angry for having to clear up poop). But the way they're saying it is like no body can have a cat anymore according to their 'rules', which is a cat needs 150 m² of space per cat and "and perhaps we should also ask ourselves whether cats prefer to live with people or 'in nature'. in fact, imprisoning animals because people like that company is, of course, by definition unfriendly to animals, because we put people first instead of animal welfare." This remark gave some off vibes.

I have had people come on the page asking about introduction or issues where cats don't meet eye to eye immediately and all those topics are shut down by the woman running the group, telling the poster to just get rid of the second cat, you can not house multiple cats together. I've sent mutiple people tips on how to help their cats or redirecting them to pages that can help.

Now I have plenty of cats in my household but according to them it shouldn't be possible because you can only house cats together that are from the same nest. Sure.... I have 3 brothers and 1 sister and the 2 big bro's have it out for their little bro..and sometimes the sister but mostly the youngest brother.

A lot of my information comes from english and american sites and of course from observing my own lovely felines. I can just sit there and watch their interactions or reactions all day, with so many personalities I always see something new.

I just wanted to get this off my chest and hear if anything like this is from a known study. Where's the science?

Oh and I thought cats were ground animals, prey and predator and the reason they like boxes is because it makes them feel save as they lived in dens in the wild. According to them cats are tree dwellers...

Thank you if you read this huge wall of text

 

[di and bob]

I agree with YOU on most of your points. I have been observing and loving cats for over 50 years. Cats do have preferences for litter boxes, but although a larger size is preferable, cats do just fine with whatever you give them. If they don't like it, or can't use it, they start going on the floor and having behavioral problems The rule of thumb as to how many boxes is one per cat PLUS ONE. 3 cats would have 4 boxes etc. But once again, depending on your house size, and providing there is no bullying from another cat when one is trying to go, I have had 3 cats use one box at times with absolutely no problems. I usually try to have a box per floor of a house. As per the size of the home, I have had very happy cats in tiny homes. Two or three cats can be very happy in a tiny apartment. Just provide some entertainment. Cats are solitary creatures but do form clowders. They keep other cats away, which is why it is so hard to introduce cats to each other, they are territorial. They also feel very safe when in hidden, tiny places. They have been persecuted and hunted for thousands of years, they are instinctively driven to hide and seek safety. The main thing to remember is they are NOT dogs. They are not pack animals that are driven to please an alpha.That is why physical punishment does not work for a cat. You can not beat them into doing what you want, or spray them with water, etc. They become afraid of you and will avoid you then. They are independent and too intelligent for their own good. Once you get a cat, you can receive one of this world's greatest treasures. One you earn. A cat's love.........

 

[Kflowers]

Sounds, and without any proof, that the 'can't have multiply cats together lady' was taught this early in her life and when she found a second cat that she liked, she took it to shelter and left it there. Now she has to do everything possible to believe she did the right thing in taking that cat to shelter, so in her world and every world she touches, "you can't have multiple cats together.' Of course, this is just a supposition and maybe wrong.

 

[catlady76paws]

di and bob : I highlighted what they said on that group so it's clearer that that is not necessarily what I believe. My rule of thumb is also 1 litterbox per cat plus 1, but as I always say more is better, especially when you have a multi-cat household and put them in unconventional places. Then even the underdog can crap in peace without someone guarding the exit.

But the way this particular facebook group is going around, practically implying if you don't have 150 m² you shouldn't own a cat or don't get a second cat.

That said, I agree with everything you say. The love of a cat is something else and people don't see that. They don't see the soul, the love behind the eyes. It's just a pet to them and it can fend for itself, it doesn't care for attention, which is absolutely not true.
Sure I have one cat who is very aloof and will run if I come over and start talking sweetly, but the next moment she's a loving ball of fur, head butting, purring, meowing(she never meows). But to understand that, most people don't.

My husband and I always say, there are people with cats or catpeople, you can pick which one very quickly.

K Kflowers : you might be on to something there. She says she has done education and training in the behaviour of cats. And the only way you can help the cat is through her agency, with a certified cat-behaviorist. To me it sounds like they don't understand cats at all.

 

[di and bob]

I think experience speaks for itself. You do whatever works for you. Cats do not meow in the wild, just when they need to, like a mama calling her babies to eat, etc. We teach them to meow at us for attention, but a feral or timid cat usually does not make a sound to draw attention to themselves. I have found cats with an Oriental background are real talkers. I have a feral mama right now who just stares at me with her huge eyes, and all her grown children are meowing at me for their dinner. It is quite a contrast. cats are notoriously hard to introduce. I had two cat families that took over a year to finally get along and even then it was mostly ignoring each other. But whatever brings peace. But they DID learn to get along. I also believe strongly that people who dump cats to fend for themselves should go through EXACTLY what their poor cats went through, in a special place in Hell........

 

[catloverfromwayback]

Cannot house multiple cats together???

Phoebe, who started pining as soon as Maddie crossed the bridge, and spends her days with Daisy, who I adopted to keep her company, would like a word with this person.

 

[catlady76paws]

catloverfromwayback I hear you. They should pay a visit to my house. I have introduced so many cats.

Example, I took in mother(Rose) and daughter(Molly), turns out they didn't like each other very much but tolerated the other. Now Molly is handicapped with a harelip and mild CH, I think(her head wobbles when she get excited). Anyway, over the summer a lot of kittens found refuge at my place and it was clear Molly wasn't fond of the rambuntious youngsters.
I took a gamble but she lives with Baby(15) and Cookie(2ish?) now. Molly has started meowing(she can't, it's hilarious) and coming out for cuddles. She doesn't miss the previous group and Rose doesn't miss her either.

It's all about understanding the behaviour and they will let you know.

Yesterday Berry cornered Peter in a cube and I heard from her meow what she was doing. I told her to stop, looked at her intently and she turned away from Pete and then I said: lie down...can you believe she actually did? Then started squinting at me. But according to them that isn't possible.

I learned on this site, why my Thirteen(Rest in Peace, sweety) was meowing and biting my son when he was crying. A woman came on the facebook group, telling them the cat was 'biting' her crying baby. So I told her, it's because the cat is trying to keep him quiet so he won't attract predators. One so called expert jumped on it and tried to tell me, it was highly unlikely this was the case. It was medical and the woman should go to a vet and be sure to call the groups special phone number to get help from a professional behaviorist.
I replied back and I later found out they deleted my additional replies.

To read that these so-called experts won't even try to find a way and just keep blaring their beliefs instead of looking at the cat is mildly infuriating. There are ways.

 

[Kflowers]

i'm always a little wary of anyone who says they are the only one who can do any particular thing regardless of what that thing is.

 

[Hellenww]

One so called expert jumped on it and tried to tell me, it was highly unlikely this was the case. It was medical and the woman should go to a vet and be sure to call the groups special phone number to get help from a professional behaviorist.
I replied back and I later found out they deleted my additional replies.

To read that these so-called experts won't even try to find a way and just keep blaring their beliefs instead of looking at the cat is mildly infuriating. There are ways.

This sounds like a money making scheme. A bunch of lies about cat behaviour that only they can solve and when someone else offers to help they shut it down.

 

[Furballsmom]

I've sent mutiple people tips on how to help their cats or redirecting them to pages that can help.

Bless you for hanging in there with this and helping these folks and their cats!

 

[catlady76paws]

This sounds like a money making scheme. A bunch of lies about cat behaviour that only they can solve and when someone else offers to help they shut it down.

This. Someone else also mentioned a cult, only their way is valid. There are other people in there as well giving off a sound that this is ridiculous but I can imagine a different opinion to the head honcho is heavily moderated on

Furballsmom the only reason I'm staying in that group. To see if I can help the cats (and their owners but I suck with people hahaha)

 

[catloverfromwayback]

catloverfromwayback I hear you. They should pay a visit to my house. I have introduced so many cats.

Example, I took in mother(Rose) and daughter(Molly), turns out they didn't like each other very much but tolerated the other. Now Molly is handicapped with a harelip and mild CH, I think(her head wobbles when she get excited). Anyway, over the summer a lot of kittens found refuge at my place and it was clear Molly wasn't fond of the rambuntious youngsters.
I took a gamble but she lives with Baby(15) and Cookie(2ish?) now. Molly has started meowing(she can't, it's hilarious) and coming out for cuddles. She doesn't miss the previous group and Rose doesn't miss her either.

It's all about understanding the behaviour and they will let you know.

Yesterday Berry cornered Peter in a cube and I heard from her meow what she was doing. I told her to stop, looked at her intently and she turned away from Pete and then I said: lie down...can you believe she actually did? Then started squinting at me. But according to them that isn't possible.

I learned on this site, why my Thirteen(Rest in Peace, sweety) was meowing and biting my son when he was crying. A woman came on the facebook group, telling them the cat was 'biting' her crying baby. So I told her, it's because the cat is trying to keep him quiet so he won't attract predators. One so called expert jumped on it and tried to tell me, it was highly unlikely this was the case. It was medical and the woman should go to a vet and be sure to call the groups special phone number to get help from a professional behaviorist.
I replied back and I later found out they deleted my additional replies.

To read that these so-called experts won't even try to find a way and just keep blaring their beliefs instead of looking at the cat is mildly infuriating. There are ways.

I’ve had many cats, too. Had five for years. Oh and they had one litter box between them - a big baby bath. I’ve never had any issues of cats refusing to use it. Only issue is Phoebe squatting a bit high sometimes and peeing over the edge!

 

[catlady76paws]

I don't have litter boxes according to my rule but I have big ones and multiple places. I also have multiple territories because I put the cats in groups that match.

I have one cat, Merlin, who some times pees on the floor, we clean it up and "scold" him. He even peed on me but I've not once thought of getting rid of him, yes we joke about it but nah, he's a sweet cat otherwise. I have feliway diffusers hanging and when they're nearly empty we'll know because Merlin will have more accidents.
His sister does the same but in the bathtub and dirty laundry and not on me.
But it's fine.

I have a Phoebe too, except he's called Kumal. Sticky litter boxes from his pee. He'll start low and slowly his butt will go up, sometimes his feet will leave the ground.

I'm glad I am not alone in feeling this particular Facebook group has a weird look on cat behaviour. I'm gonna keep lurking over there and try to help people who get shut down by their weird vision.

 

[gilmargl]

Just a thought!
It is unbelievable just how much rubbish, fake news, and, perhaps well-intentioned, but incorrect information provided by self-educated role-players is propogated on Facebook. It is best to completely ignore anything suspicious or what you consider wrong. Those who need to set-up such Facebook accounts have some mental deficiencies and reacting to their nonsense only increases their self-righteousness, willingness to defend their ideas and satisfies some perverse sense of their own importance. They don't care how many likes or dislikes they receive, so long as they get attention.

TCS fortunately appears to delete threads where the thread-starter sends, for instance, horror pictures - just for the reactions! When such pictures appeared a second time, and my suspicions were aroused, I made a search and the original thread couldn't be found. Thank you TCS!

Oh, and by the way, I did have one foster, who'd been kept in a cage solely to produce colourful kittens. When first kept in a large room, she needed a whole field of litterboxes packed close together until she accepted one or 2 smaller boxes in different corners of her room. But, I would never recommend such a procedure for all cats.

 

[catloverfromwayback]

He'll start low and slowly his butt will go up, sometimes his feet will leave the ground.

LOL! Phoebes has never managed to levitate while peeing but I wouldn’t put it past her to try! Their litter is in the bathroom in this unit, so at least the floor and walls there are made to get wet and easy to clean. I swapped their old tub for a Moderna sifting tray recently - only successful part of the pine litter experiment. It’s as high as the old tub but shorter, so I can get a decent depth of the tofu litter I’m currently using without having to break the bank buying two bags at a time.

 

[Alldara]

Beware of anyone trying to sell you anything. Always a good rule in my book! They have their best interest in mind, not yours.

"cannot house multiple cats together"

Well. I've informed Calcifer of her statement and he has said, "WMaah wmahh!" Which I'm quite sure translates to a reminder that he does not even tolerate being in a different room to his cat family for more than 15 minutes. I'm also reminded of Nobel's severe depression as a solo cat.

Each cat is an individual and I certainly wouldn't want to disregard anyone who *can't* keep a second cat because their cat does not tolerate other cats, or living beings in general...

But cats aren't even closely enough related to their wild ancestors that we even knew which wild cats they were related to. We had it wrong for years as a general statement (exotic breeds aside).

Their genetics and behaviours have changed so much over time with us that they have learned to live in groups and it can even benefit them as they age (co-grooming helps to keep elder cats clean, seeing where and what you get cats eat helps elder ones eat more with loss of smell and sight, observing younger cats keeps an older cat's brain more active). Much advice is usually if your you get cat is a pain, get another one. It works well!

As for litter boxes, again, each cat is an individual. Lily loved using a large ferret corner box (not exactly large huh?), Nobel an XL covered one.

Magnus, as a kitten didn't have access to the basement where the ferret one is unsupervised. He would wait at the basement door to be let down each morning to have his poo. Then come back up and we'd close the door for the day. Legitimately waiting for the smallest box in the house he had 100% access 24/7 to 3 other large boxes.


I think here on thecatsite, we all try to share what's worked for us, and encourage people to let us know what is or isn't working for them. There's always a few solutions to any problems and it can be trial and error for each cat. If the other place is causing stress, it's always okay to walk away. Most cat research is showing the same so far. Even nutrition seems to be based on if your cat has any underlying conditions in terms of what works best for them.

 

[Cat McCannon]

I've been part of a Facebook group, called Cat Behaviour and Welfare and is being run by people who did an education based on a study and just every fibre of me is screaming bullshit. It's a dutch page and to me it's wrong...

Just a little excerpt: "This fantastic 'litter box' is actually the bottom of a rabbit hutch, but of course this is exactly the size that suits a 5 star stay for the cat in the house. Did you know that cats want a box that is 90 cm long? And that they just don't even exist? That is why it is necessary to move to 'trays' that can serve perfectly as a litter box and this is an ideal example of this. Just for your information: you also need at least 2 'litter boxes' per cat and they should also be far from food/drink/litter boxes. in other words to be able to offer a cat in the house what it needs in terms of behavioral needs, you also need a lot of space for that. If you don't already have room for sufficient and sufficiently large litter boxes, then no cat will fit. Cats are simply animals that need a lot of space and unfortunately this is not known everywhere."

Now I don't mind big litter boxes, I took the bottom of a storage container for under the bed, to put down for our senior(14, bit overweight, maybe deaf and may have arthrosis) because she kept pooping outside of the regular litterbox(it works magnificent and hubby is not angry for having to clear up poop). But the way they're saying it is like no body can have a cat anymore according to their 'rules', which is a cat needs 150 m² of space per cat and "and perhaps we should also ask ourselves whether cats prefer to live with people or 'in nature'. in fact, imprisoning animals because people like that company is, of course, by definition unfriendly to animals, because we put people first instead of animal welfare." This remark gave some off vibes.

I have had people come on the page asking about introduction or issues where cats don't meet eye to eye immediately and all those topics are shut down by the woman running the group, telling the poster to just get rid of the second cat, you can not house multiple cats together. I've sent mutiple people tips on how to help their cats or redirecting them to pages that can help.

Now I have plenty of cats in my household but according to them it shouldn't be possible because you can only house cats together that are from the same nest. Sure.... I have 3 brothers and 1 sister and the 2 big bro's have it out for their little bro..and sometimes the sister but mostly the youngest brother.

A lot of my information comes from english and american sites and of course from observing my own lovely felines. I can just sit there and watch their interactions or reactions all day, with so many personalities I always see something new.

I just wanted to get this off my chest and hear if anything like this is from a known study. Where's the science?

Oh and I thought cats were ground animals, prey and predator and the reason they like boxes is because it makes them feel save as they lived in dens in the wild. According to them cats are tree dwellers...

Thank you if you read this huge wall of text

Cats can be “Bush Dwellers”, “Tree Dwellers” and everything in between. In general cats love to be up high where they can observe everything going on. Being able to get up off the ground boosts their self confidence.

 

[Alldara]

My wife has corrected me. It's still the smallest in the house but it's this one: Van Ness High Side Corner CAT Litter Pan | Walmart Canada

 

[Kflowers]

If you need a high sided litter box and your cat has trouble climbing in, or is older and may be starting to have joint problems, you can make a cat stair using a cardboard box - it's width should measure half the length of the cat, height just a couple of inches will do. You might want to cover it with contact paper (the stuff that's sticky on the inner side and smooth on the outer side, was once popular for lining drawers). You'll need to put something in the box to weight it down, so it won't slide when cat steps up and over the litter box edge - rocks are good, or old textbooks.