Stubborn Fic

[Mad-crazymoo]

Hi cat people sorry for the possible long post but I'm getting stressed and nothing seems to be working.
My 15yr old girl started displaying signs of uti,she had a flare up over a year ago and nothing since.Nothing has changed in the house except for us going on holiday but we have been back 2months so can't see this being the issue. I took her to the vets who felt her abdomen and gave 2 injections and I had a 5 day course of tablets (can't remember what they were atm) nothing seemed to improve I call vets back and they said they didn't think she needed any more medical attention and I should maybe change foods to the hills c/d urinary stress
After the weekend things were no better I take her back, again they say her stomach area feels soft, another injection and a week of loxicom, I do this but still there is zero improvement. At this point I notice her not popping, she goes through the motions sits and strains and squeezes but nothing comes out, we go back and they suggest an ultrasound of bladder and liquid parrafin for her poop
They do ultrasound and full blood work all are normal apart from thickened bladder lining they say is usual from uti /fic.
They give another injection and tell me to finish what's left of the loxicom.
At this point I still don't think she has popped either.i ring to update and they suggest getting a sample of urine.i go get the special litter but by now she's not doing enough to get a viable sample.by the next morning, any output of dribbles have stopped completely and she is squatting on the beds and on the floors which has never happened. I ring the vets they ask me to bring her in and that as she had a uterine tumour 3yrs ago a full abdomen xray and to collect a sample. When I lifted her into the carrier some drops of bloody liquid dripped.
The vet said this time bladder was rock hard, they managed to get a urine sample as she peed while sedated, waiting on results of that but xrays all came back clear nothing at all no masses, they said she had no blockage else she would be able to pee at all.
We take her home she's given another injection and another course of loxicom, but not to give if she's.not eating as it can cause ulcers and the stomach to burst.As she's only eating the jelly they say its not enough to give the meds so go back for 2 days for a daily painkiller.
Still there is no change they say it has to be due to stress trigger but we cannot think of anything different to what it was before, none have said anything about her not pooping which I find strange if she had backed up poo would this not show on xray?
I took her back for a further check up and I said she still does not pee properly they press her bladder area and she pees over the table, and said her bladder feels better than it did at the xray, so why is nothing changing? She has Started Laying down in the litter the other night she was leaking urine while lying down on us, but then it had stopped the next day.we bought a feliway plug in, tried the veterinary food but she just licks the gravy, I just don't know what to do anymore if it's not medical I've tried the cystease advance capsules but she doesn't eat much, feels like we going in circles and nothing is any better

 

[duckpond]

my first thoughts are to see a different vet. I am just not sure your vet is helping, and it sounds like she has some major problems.

 

[Mamanyt1953]

Absolutely, get a second opinion of this. SOMETHING should be working, or SOMETHING they are missing is happening.

 

[Echy]

Definitely get a new vet, she could have a serious problem, there must be something that works. They are missing something. "At this point, I notice her not pooping, she goes through the motions sits and strains and squeezes but nothing comes out." She could possibly be constipated or she's not eating enough so she has nothing to poop out.

I hope she gets better, be sure to keep us informed.
~Echy

 

[Mad-crazymoo]

I called the vets on my lunch and explained the situation,said someone was meant to call me back when I updated them Thursday but nobody did,they said that if she is leaking urine it could be neurological which would mean there isn't a lot that can be done, if she is withholding urine it will stretch the bladder so that she will start to leak and the bladder will never recover and if this is the case I may need to start thinking what is right for her (I think they mean the euthanise word) my son has suffered chronic constipation since birth so I know how the bowel gets stretched and loses muscle tone which causes poo leaks so I guess it's similar with the bladder,its just one of them things, did she start being constipated which led to pee issue, or the pee issue leading to constipation I know my son got so blocked it cut his urine off he had to be hospitalised, don't know if the same applies in cats, her appetite decreased a lot which could be linked to being bunged up, if you can't go you dont feel like eating. The vet said to give her the liquid paraffin 3-5ml twice a day and if she hadn't pooped by tomorrow they would give her an enema if that didn't work it would be sedation and surgical removal.but I read doing an enema on hard poo can rupture the colon so I'm wary of doing that
Tonight she did the straining and did about half a pinky finger poo in the tray she then jumped out and dragged her butt over the tiles when she got up there was a poo about another half pinky finger,my hubby said that's not a poo it looks like a finger,but it was a poo which is something that hadn't happened in a while (could be that she's not eating much) ill never know I guess.
I did mention lactulose to the vet as someone I know said their vet had given it their cat but had said to go chemist as the human stuff the same but they offered to prescribe me some at the vets.I didn't go to pick it up.
Obviously they said if she not eating a full meal she can't have the loxicom and if I wanted to do the injection route they could arrange it, but I'd have to buy a full bottle, although most would be wasted as only has a 28 say shelf life and id need a week worth, it was £80 a bottle.they mentioned the anti spasmodic but said its not without risks and said basically its up to me how I wish to progress they will do whatever I wish to do. I have thought of a second opinion but they say each time I take her there it's causing stress which doesn't help. I don't have pet insurance as its classed as pre existing condition it would be excluded,, I've spent around £600 in 3 weeks on scans xrays tests etc, if I go elsewhere I don't have that money to spend out again. I did put some laxative on some dreamies treats which she ate I don't want her eating dry things but was the only way I could think to get them into her

 

[Mad-crazymoo]

I was also questioning that I've read that fic in older cats over 10 is quite rare,if they have its usually caused by an underlying health issue like diabetes /kidney disease but as bloods came back normal points me to bacterial,, is there a reason why vets wouldn't prescribe an antibiotic at the first sign just in case it was bacterial or is that a bad thing to do as if it did turn out bacterial, it could have been sorted when it started a month ago

 

[Echy]

I called the vets on my lunch and explained the situation,said someone was meant to call me back when I updated them Thursday but nobody did,they said that if she is leaking urine it could be neurological which would mean there isn't a lot that can be done, if she is withholding urine it will stretch the bladder so that she will start to leak and the bladder will never recover and if this is the case I may need to start thinking what is right for her (I think they mean the euthanise word) my son has suffered chronic constipation since birth so I know how the bowel gets stretched and loses muscle tone which causes poo leaks so I guess it's similar with the bladder,its just one of them things, did she start being constipated which led to pee issue, or the pee issue leading to constipation I know my son got so blocked it cut his urine off he had to be hospitalised, don't know if the same applies in cats, her appetite decreased a lot which could be linked to being bunged up, if you can't go you dont feel like eating. The vet said to give her the liquid paraffin 3-5ml twice a day and if she hadn't pooped by tomorrow they would give her an enema if that didn't work it would be sedation and surgical removal.but I read doing an enema on hard poo can rupture the colon so I'm wary of doing that
Tonight she did the straining and did about half a pinky finger poo in the tray she then jumped out and dragged her butt over the tiles when she got up there was a poo about another half pinky finger,my hubby said that's not a poo it looks like a finger,but it was a poo which is something that hadn't happened in a while (could be that she's not eating much) ill never know I guess.
I did mention lactulose to the vet as someone I know said their vet had given it their cat but had said to go chemist as the human stuff the same but they offered to prescribe me some at the vets.I didn't go to pick it up.
Obviously they said if she not eating a full meal she can't have the loxicom and if I wanted to do the injection route they could arrange it, but I'd have to buy a full bottle, although most would be wasted as only has a 28 say shelf life and id need a week worth, it was £80 a bottle.they mentioned the anti spasmodic but said its not without risks and said basically its up to me how I wish to progress they will do whatever I wish to do. I have thought of a second opinion but they say each time I take her there it's causing stress which doesn't help. I don't have pet insurance as its classed as pre existing condition it would be excluded,, I've spent around £600 in 3 weeks on scans xrays tests etc, if I go elsewhere I don't have that money to spend out again. I did put some laxative on some dreamies treats which she ate I don't want her eating dry things but was the only way I could think to get them into her

I'm really sorry, I don't know how to help. I hope she's okay. The only information I can provide is to do the surgery, I know its dangerous and there are risks but just think about it. I'm sorry that I can't be of better help.
I'm praying for your kitty.

Keep us informed!
~Echy

 

[FeebysOwner]

That's a lot of info to digest - sorry if I missed something in all of it. I read it multiple times, so hope I caught most of it.

First off - you can ask for copies of the x-rays and other tests so that you could share them with another vet without having the expense of repeating them all. I realize that doesn't resolve the stress issue of another vet visit, but sometimes that just can't be helped.

Secondly, I am guessing the 5 days course of tablets were perhaps an antibiotic? Although, here in the US, it is typically a 10-14 day treatment. My 14+ yo Feeby was prone to UTIs, due to stones - and even had surgery to remove them about 8 years ago. She was put on urinary related food, and so far so good. Recent x-rays show her bladder looks fine.

However, in the past year the UTIs have cropped back up. So much so that she repeatedly peed outside the litter box, among a few other places as well. Never happened with earlier UTIs. The vet also did a 3-day urine culture to be sure exactly what type of infection it was - different antibiotics for different kinds of infection. The antibiotics have so far worked every time - but, again, certain kind and usually a 14 day treatment.

It turns out because of her age, some arthritis, and being overweight, she cannot keep herself clean "back there", thus creating all kinds of problems. All of this can also lead to less eating, hence less poop. This has been true for her as well.

She also had a couple of bouts of anal glands getting clogged, which can cause a bloody like liquid leaking from her behind. This also can be caused by lack of proper cleaning, and poop reduction due to less eating. She has had a couple of anal expressions done (just squeezing out the goo from the glands) - free of charge here in the US.

Not all the same as your issues, but thought it might give you some other options to consider about what is going on.

 

[Mad-crazymoo]

That's a lot of info to digest - sorry if I missed something in all of it. I read it multiple times, so hope I caught most of it.

First off - you can ask for copies of the x-rays and other tests so that you could share them with another vet without having the expense of repeating them all. I realize that doesn't resolve the stress issue of another vet visit, but sometimes that just can't be helped.

Secondly, I am guessing the 5 days course of tablets were perhaps an antibiotic?
I'm not sure exactly what they were, I will have to dig out the receipt to see what they were called, but I think it was possibly a pain killer or anti inflammatory as they said I could have the liquid form which she is currently on
Although, here in the US, it is typically a 10-14 day treatment. My 14+ yo Feeby was prone to UTIs, due to stones - and even had surgery to remove them about 8 years ago. She was put on urinary related food, and so far so good. Recent x-rays show her bladder looks fine.

However, in the past year the UTIs have cropped back up. So much so that she repeatedly peed outside the litter box, among a few other places as well. Never happened with earlier UTIs. The vet also did a 3-day urine culture to be sure exactly what type of infection it was - different antibiotics for different kinds of infection. The antibiotics have so far worked every time - but, again, certain kind and usually a 14 day treatment.

It turns out because of her age, some arthritis, and being overweight, she cannot keep herself clean "back there", thus creating all kinds of problems. All of this can also lead to less eating, hence less poop. This has been true for her as well.
My jessi was a little overweight since she had an operation 3yrs ago she looked like a little Buddha when she sat but they said she was 4kg but has lost some since as they are dosing her for 3.5kg now. She did struggle a little to get round and sometimes had kitty clagnuts stuck to her bum so it's something to think about

She also had a couple of bouts of anal glands getting clogged, which can cause a bloody like liquid leaking from her behind. This also can be caused by lack of proper cleaning, and poop reduction due to less eating. She has had a couple of anal expressions done (just squeezing out the goo from the glands) - free of charge here in the US.

Not all the same as your issues, but thought it might give you some other options to consider about what is going on.

 

[Mad-crazymoo]

That's interesting as jess was a little chubby since her op 3yrs ago, she did struggle a little to get round to clean herself properly she was 4kg when this all started and they said then she had lost a little now since a month is 3.5kg,she often had what I call kitty clagnuts stuck to her bum
I'm not sure what the tablets were, they have thrown so many names at me I will have to try and find the receipt, not sure if they were pain killer as they said I could either do that or take her back daily for an injection.

 

[Mad-crazymoo]

Jess is still leaking pee slightly when she is lying down, I think it seems she has some kind of ocd with the litter tray if we are not in the room she is happy to stay snoozing, but as soon as we go in where the trays are she will be there and go in and out constantly, if she hears me go to clean it she is there.
The vet told me some cats are pre disposed to have these flare ups and it can be genetic and wired in the brain, her late sister had regular occurrence of uti.
As she did a poo last night I don't know if to try lactulose, I tried the liquid paraffin on her food this morning but she sniffed and walked away. I've heard of some say to use pumpkin etc to help get things going.

Oh the vets just rang the urine sample results came back and they shown up some crystals, blood and they said while it didn't grow any bacteria there was bacteria present so they are giving a 10 day course of antibiotics,, they said they don't believe this is the primary issue as they still believe that Is the idiopathic cystitis and this has just aggravated things.
They also said the tablets I was first given on 12th August were an antibiotic, but now they will treat it with something more specific.hopefully I can make her feel better as I'm stressing as we go on holiday at end of month and don't want to leave her like this

 

[Mamanyt1953]

Are they giving anything to resolve the crystals? Depending on the type of crystal (there are two), there are meds that can help, and diet...but what is good for ONE type of crystal aggravates the other, so you have to be sure.

 

[Mad-crazymoo]

No they didn't tell me there were different types just said over the phone that some inflamed crystals were found traces of blood ,they said that it didn't grow bacteria in the sample but bacteria was found, they have given me 7 days of antibiotics called noroclav (unsure what its brand name is in other countries ) and to continue giving the anti inflammatory loxicom,, or if she isn't eating still then the injectable version.
They just told me to keep them updated. Collected the meds and she just ate it from my hand and I got some lactulose from the chemist and put a small amount on her food which she ate.
The vet did give me samples of hills c/d urinary stress wet food and also Royal canin s/o , but she just ate the gravy and left the meat its awkward as I have 2 other cats and they are constantly switching bowls so I'm trying to feed her away from the others

 

[Mad-crazymoo]

Things are no different with jess ,after she did the small poo on Monday night I haven't noticed that she has done any further, a friend of mine told me her vets give her cat lactulose and that he says it's identical to the human one, so it's cheaper to go to the pharmacy as you can buy a lot cheaper, so I got some of this and been putting 3ml on her food twice daily,along with extra water she seems to lick the liquid up, so I'm hoping it's getting in her system,, there really is no way to guess for sure I have to sit and watch her and remove the plate to stop the others eating it when she done.
I did she her having a good drink of water 2 nights back but not noticed anything since.
She still digs about to do poo and squeezes but nothing. There was a poo in the tray this morning, but having 3 cats impossible to know who done it, although both the others did one last night and I scooped it before bed.i tried putting all her stuff in one room so I knew for sure what she was doing but she went nuts being shut in, so I thought that could stress her so just let her be as normal. I'm still giving her the antibiotic twice a day and the loxicom (anti inflammatory) once daily I found if I syringe small amounts into some plain chicken she eats it.
She isn't leaking urine anymore that I've noticed, I was excited the other night as she done the biggest pee in a while,about a 50p piece but now she is obsessed every time I clean the tray she will have to visit every one and force something out. So it's gone back to something the size of a peanut.
I didn't know if to ring the vets and take her (as they said each time I do causes stress and will set back any progress ) I was hoping if they felt her abdomen they could tell if her bladder is less hard etc or if she has blocked poo (I know all the years my son had constipation the could feel hard lumps). Also the food the vet gave me hills c/d urinary stress and Royal canin s/o urinary I was told it is prescription but I have seen what seem identical packs on pet food suppliers. Are they the same thing ? Someone wrote on a forum they aren't as can only be prescribed by a vet so I'm a little confused
So that's where we are no further forward really although she was ripping though a bag last night to find her toy fish.