Struvite Crystals, Allergies And Over Grooming

[lemes]

Hello, I'm hoping for some advice.

A few months ago my cat started over grooming the area between her back legs. It got to the point her skin was pink and irritated and all the fur between her back legs was gone. Thought it was an allergy at first, but when I couldn't figure out what she was allergic to I took her to the vet.

We did blood work, urine test, and she received a steroid shot and an antibiotic shot. My vet thought she might have a bladder problem like cystitis and was over grooming the area because of pain. Moxie got much better immediately after the shots and began to grow her fur back. During this time her urine test showed she has a very high concentration of struvite crystals in her urine.

About a week ago the over grooming started again. She went back to the vet yesterday and now the vet has changed her mind and thinks the over grooming is due to an allergy, because Moxie is peeing normally and isn't going outside the litter box. However I now feel like the struvite crystals causing irritation makes the most sense. Moxie is on buprenorphine and another drug for the next week rule out whether the over grooming is due to pain.

I'm looking for any advice, experience or resources on struvite crystals, allergies and over grooming.

Moxie has been mostly raw fed for years, with occasional canned food and a little grain-free kibble for her puzzle feeders. The vet is talking about prescription urinary food or prescription hypo-allergenic food and I'm a little lost. I want to do what's best for Moxie and I don't want her to be in pain, but I'm not sure just tossing a prescription food at her is the answer.

 

[Mamanyt1953]

From my VERY limited knowledge, I do know that allergies to anything can happen at any time, so she may have developed an allergy fairly recently to a previously fine food. And that's the limit of my real knowledge. I'm sorry I couldn't be more help, but once one person answers, for some reason it often triggers others to answer, as well!

Also, for the "ouchy" spots, you can brew a cup of chamomile tea (available with the other teas at your local grocery store), chill it in the fridge, and swab it on. Since it is also safe at low dosages internally in cats, the small amounts that they may lick off during grooming is NOT going to be harmful at all. It's great for soothing any skin irritation in cats and humans.

 

[LTS3]

What kind of raw food are you feeding? A commerical brand or homemade? Can you try a different protein for a couple of weeks to rule out a possible allergy to a specific protein?

 

[hbanan]

My effie lost all the fur from her legs and stomach due to a protein allergy. I did switch to a prescription limited ingredient diet (Royal Canin PR) and it made all the difference. The hair grew back. My opinion is it is worth a shot, it certainly won't hurt. However, just remember when switching foods, especially from a raw food diet do it gradually. The advantages of getting the prescirption hypoallergenic food is it made in a controlled area. Even if you get good quality raw food made from an alternative protein, such as rabbit, there's not guarantee that it's not being prepared in the same area where chicken is. For the record I do feed my babe Nature's Instinct canned rabbit as well as the royal canin, but I would start with the prescription stuff and see if that helps.

 

[lemes]

From my VERY limited knowledge, I do know that allergies to anything can happen at any time, so she may have developed an allergy fairly recently to a previously fine food. And that's the limit of my real knowledge. I'm sorry I couldn't be more help, but once one person answers, for some reason it often triggers others to answer, as well!

Also, for the "ouchy" spots, you can brew a cup of chamomile tea (available with the other teas at your local grocery store), chill it in the fridge, and swab it on. Since it is also safe at low dosages internally in cats, the small amounts that they may lick off during grooming is NOT going to be harmful at all. It's great for soothing any skin irritation in cats and humans.

Thank you so much for the chamomile suggestion! I'll definitely give that a try. I've been hesitant to do anything for her topically for exactly the reason you mentioned, knowing she'd just end up ingesting it.

 

[lemes]

What kind of raw food are you feeding? A commerical brand or homemade? Can you try a different protein for a couple of weeks to rule out a possible allergy to a specific protein?

Homemade raw, various protein sources. Most recently she's been getting quail, pork, chicken, kangaroo and elk. I've tried cutting everything out except for the quail and pork (she eats the quail for bones), but I did that for about ten days, and since the skin irritation was just getting worse I stopped. She mostly gets pork organ meats (liver and kidney, I can get beef and chicken liver easily but can't find another consistent source for kidney besides pork) so taking her off pork and quail as well as beef and chicken will probably mean switching to commercial raw for a while.

The vet thinks the only sure bet to rule out cross contamination from production is to use a prescription food. I also think the vet isn't too crazy about raw, although she's never said that outright.

 

[Mamanyt1953]

It's safe. Depending on the size of the cat, they can have up to a tablespoon at a time, up to 3 a day internally for stress.

 

[lemes]

My effie lost all the fur from her legs and stomach due to a protein allergy. I did switch to a prescription limited ingredient diet (Royal Canin PR) and it made all the difference. The hair grew back. My opinion is it is worth a shot, it certainly won't hurt. However, just remember when switching foods, especially from a raw food diet do it gradually. The advantages of getting the prescirption hypoallergenic food is it made in a controlled area. Even if you get good quality raw food made from an alternative protein, such as rabbit, there's not guarantee that it's not being prepared in the same area where chicken is. For the record I do feed my babe Nature's Instinct canned rabbit as well as the royal canin, but I would start with the prescription stuff and see if that helps.

Thanks for your reply! My vet also mentioned that cross contamination could be an issue with non-prescription allergy foods. Moxie is really used to getting a huge variety of different foods so sticking to one thing will be really hard for her.

How quickly did you start to see improvement in your cat? My vet wants Moxie on the prescription food only for two months, and if she's still having issues after that I'll have to start looking for an environmental cause. I won't even know where to begin if it turns out to be environmental.

 

[lemes]

Forgot to mention that on Tuesday we also did an x-ray to rule out bladder stones. Vet thought it was very unlikely but I decided to do the x-ray anyway just to be sure. No sign of bladder stones on the x-ray.

Does anyone have any experience with struvite crystals in cats? My vet seems really unconcerned with them despite Moxie having a very high concentration in her urine test. The vet's attitude is that if Moxie isn't peeing outside the litter box they aren't a problem. But I'm assuming they're uncomfortable even if she's still using the litter box alright? Is there anything I can do about them? Any supplements I should try, anything to avoid? Does anyone have any experience with prescription urinary food? Does it help?

 

[Mamanyt1953]

That I can't help with. But wanted you to know that I'm still here, and forming the "cheering section" for you and Moxie.

 

[kissthisangel]

Crystals are less concerning in female cats, their urethra is much wider and shorter than a male cat. It means that females do not become blocked, male cats block easily. Might be why the vet is not overly concerned. Crystals can cause inflammation and UTIs in females though, which can understandably lead to licking and overgroming in the area. I have read up on it recently since Charlie suffered a blockage.

I hope Moxie does well and recovers soon I'll watch the thread to get updates.

 

[lemes]

So Moxie has been on the painkillers since Tuesday and the over grooming continues. She looked a little better yesterday but today her little belly is quite pink looking. It seems like she's not over grooming due to pain, which is a comfort I guess.

Next step is going to be some kind of allergy food. Still debating if I want to switch her to canned food for a while or if I'll pick up some commercial raw food. The vet will probably want to do another steroid shot on Tuesday, although she doesn't want to do too many as they can cause diabetes in cats apparently.

 

[LTS3]

Steroid use can induce diabetes in some cats but it's usually long term use that does it, not one or two shots.

I'd try commercial raw food for awhile. Can you get Rad Cat? That's a good brand with no extras like veggies to try.

 

[lemes]

Just got back from the vet. I hope you guys don't mind if I keep updating this as a kind of record to myself? Anyway here's what's happened so far:

Last week I needed to dissolve Moxie's medication in tuna in order to get her to take it, so she had a few days of mostly eating the tuna and leaving her regular food (I know that's not safe long term, it was a needs must situation as she refused the pill pockets). Her belly was looking a lot less irritated around Wednesday/Thursday of last week.

Thursday night I started mixing the tuna/medication mixture with Ziwipeak lamb to get some more food into her as I didn't have any ground raw on hand. Low and behold by Saturday her belly looked awful, super pink and irritated. So lamb is now on my short list.

Sunday I couldn't stand just waiting for her appointment anymore so I went to the pet store and picked up some Natural Balance Limited Ingredient Venison and Green Pea food. So she's been on only this food all day Saturday, all day Monday, and today.

I've been looking at her belly so much I just can't tell anymore if it's getting better (and Moxie is really unhappy when I try to look at it so it's hard to get a good look when she's flailing around), but the vet thinks she looks better than last week. Vet even pointed out a few spots where it looks like her fur is starting to grow back a little. She's only been on the new food two-ish days so that seems a little fast but she is much less pink and irritated so I'm cautiously optimistic so far.

We decided not to do the steroid shot after all.

The vet recommended Rayne cat food, which does limited ingredient diets for allergies using kangaroo or rabbit. It looks like a good food but it's very expensive so I'm mulling it over. I'm also a little hesitant to change her food again so quickly when I'm seeing a little progress. Ultimate goal is to get her back on mostly raw and to figure out what triggered the allergic reaction in the first place so I can avoid it going forward.

My short list of potential allergens so far:
1. Chicken - in her treats and canned food
2. Pork - raw liver and kidney every week, pork muscle meat sometimes
3. Quail - raw, several times a week
4. Lamb - raw and in her canned food
5. Green lipped mussels - in Ziwipeak and Feline Natural canned food (she vomited up the Feline Natural Lamb and Chicken last time I gave it to her which is unusual for her)

So. That's where we're at for the moment.

 

[Mamanyt1953]

Well...some good news is better than none, and do feel free to keep a running blog here. We have at LEAST one other member who does that for her IBD/megacolon boy, and it stands at about 2,800 posts right now, give or take 20 or so. You're in excellent company.

 

[lemes]

Steroid use can induce diabetes in some cats but it's usually long term use that does it, not one or two shots.

I'd try commercial raw food for awhile. Can you get Rad Cat? That's a good brand with no extras like veggies to try.

I've never tried Rad Cat but it looks really good. I've not seen it anywhere locally though. There's a pet food store that sells a huge variety of raw food but it's about an hour and a half drive from me. I'm going to try to make it up there this week. They sell Carnivora which I've used before. I'm hoping they have a venison or rabbit option. Once I figure out which protein I'm going which I'll pick up the same protein in raw to keep things consistent.

 

[Lalka]

seems like you are switching to different meat very fast. I am all about raw diet even if i cant do it. Finding what ingredient is allergenic can takes months. You are feeding raw so give each meat a few weeks.
Give them a couple cans of wet food, they wont die...

 

[Lalka]

double post

 

[lemes]

seems like you are switching to different meat very fast. I am all about raw diet even if i cant do it. Finding what ingredient is allergenic can takes months. You are feeding raw so give each meat a few weeks.
Give them a couple cans of wet food, they wont die...

I'm really not sure why you think that? I'm not switching rapidly through different meats. She's on venison canned food now, but the vet doesn't trust commercial cat food to be truly allergen free (cross contamination) and would like me to consider a rabbit food made by a different company.

If I decide to go with the venison and she does well on it I'd like to pick up some venison raw food and start adding that as well, probably in a few weeks when her fur starts to grow back.

If I go with the rabbit canned food my vet suggested and she does well on it I'll pick up some rabbit raw food and start adding that, probably in a few weeks when her fur starts to grow back.

She gets canned food regularly. I never said anywhere that it would kill her? But she prefers raw, she's used to raw, she does better on raw, and though it's been only three days she's already looking for her usual food so my ultimate goal is to get her back to eating raw, if her allergies allow that.

Until last Friday/Saturday my vet and I weren't even convinced it was a food allergy so. It's been less than a week.

 

[lemes]

Moxie is going to lose weight during this. There's no way around it. She not super food motivated and we've gone stretches where she ate only canned food by necessity and she always ended up losing weight. Raw keeps her at an ideal weight and interested in her food. Canned doesn't. And I really enjoy being able to make most of her food myself so I'm kind of gutted to think I might not be able to anymore. I have nothing against people who feed their cats only canned food, at all, it's not a bad thing and if it works for your cat then great! It's not an elitist thing, sorry if it came across that way, there are lots of awesome brands of canned food out there. But raw is what works best for us so that's why I want to get back to it as quickly as possible, if I can, however I can.

Anyway sorry to serial post. I'm not sure if I want to try the venison canned food for another week, see if she continues to improve, or if I should just go for the vet's recommended food. It's gonna be about $6 a DAY for the vet's food so that, unfortunately, is why I'm hesitating. They have to order it in for me so I have to decide by tomorrow morning or wait another week (they get deliveries on Fridays).

Does anyone here use the Natural Balance Limited Ingredient food? I might email them and see what sort of procedures they have in place regarding cross contamination.

ETA: a word