Starting the raw switch next month

[xcourtney3]

I've been trying to find a way to afford switching my two kitties to raw. Ordering online is just too expensive. Today I found an Italian Greyhound breeder two towns over that also sells and feeds Blue Ridge raw. I called her and inquired about their "kitten mix". It's sold in 2lb chubs, $3.30 per chub. We've estimated it would take about .5lbs per cat, per day (They're a bit overweight right now) which would be about 30lbs a month. (Please chime in if you think this math is off) This would take about $49.50 per month to feed the two of them. I'm not sure if this is a "good" price, but it seems to be manageable for us. I'm pretty sure we could lower the price if we put together the food ourselves from different sources, but I'm not quite brave enough for that yet.

Here's the kitten mix info:

Ingredients: Ground beef, ground chicken, ground beef heart, ground beef liver, ground chicken bone, ground whole egg

Guaranteed Analysis: Crude Protein (min) 19%; Crude Fat (min) 3%; Crude Fiber (max) 1%; Moisture (max) 76%

The lady said this is a pretty complete meal for everyday feeding, but I wanted to get a second opinion. Would I need to add supplements or anything?

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Congrats on taking that first step in thinking you're going to go to raw next month!  Now, how much to your cats weigh, approx, and ho active are they?  I'm thinking that 8 oz of raw per day seems high, so that's good on your budget!  The problem I see right away is....what if your cats dont' like this particular mix?  I say this because my cats are somewhat particular

(an understatement!) and so far 2 only have liked lamb of the 5 choices they have been given, and 1 has liked lamb AND a beef/salmon mixture.  What I am getting at is cats are kind of finicky, and even will switch it up among brands...might like lamb made by one mfr, but not by another, and so on. 

As to whether that kitten mix is appropriate, I'm going to let others address that, because they have more experience at it than I do.  I DO know that you need the meat protein, which is in there, you need some organs, which are in there, and you need some calcium, which is in there, but you also need that stuff in certain percentages, and we need to know what these percentages are.  I did just take a quick look at their website, and in their FAQs, they recommend adding supplements, but they don't really suggest what.  AND, unless you actually get the kitten MIX,  you MUST add organs.  All the other products (which do say they are for dogs/cats) say specifically that they do not include organs...IF I am reading this correctly, which seems really odd to me.  But I must say, that price is fantastic...that's like $1.45 a lb!!!!!!!!! 

 

[xcourtney3]

My cats are probably about ~15 lb (female) and ~17 lbs (male). They are definitely overweight. They are 2.5 years old, and not terribly active. They do run around and play with each other but I wouldn't consider that especially active as they prefer napping. I was basing the amount on 3% of their weight (I think). I'm afraid to feed them too little because I don't want them to get sick, but I do need them to lose weight. So if someone can chime in with some portion control advice that would be fantastic!
 

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

I'm gonna reply real quick before I have to sign off for the day.  Carolina has a thread going here where she started converting her brood in January.  She's got a 20 lb boy, and I believe when she was feeding him 2% raw per day he was still gaining weight

!  I'm pretty sure that she is now feeding him 1.8%  and he is slowly starting to lose weight.  So...3% might be a little high, but each cat is different. 

You probably should get them on a probiotic before you start, though, to get their digestive tracts at optimal speed., AND a digestive enzyme once you start the raw.  And from what I've heard (from everyone), the digestive enzymes seem to help the cats digest all their food, which tends to make them gain weight without eating a lot (but it's also very helpful to them when trying to digest raw food)

Have you checked this thread:  http://www.thecatsite.com/t/240809/raw-feeding-resource-thread

It's loaded with information, but well worth the time it takes to go thru it, especially if you're not going to start till next month. 

 

[feralvr]

Hi and welcome to our raw camp!!! I would definitely check out the Raw Resource Thread that Sally provided :nod: You really do need to have some other proteins and meat sources to offer the cats other than just one day in and day out. I feed commercially made raw food. Nature's Menu http://www.naturesmenu.com/ and Hare Today https://www.hare-today.com/ are extremely inexpensive to order via phone. Have you been feeding your cat's wet food? This will make the transition much easier than going from dry to raw. Some cats just take to the raw immediately and other's not so well :lol3: Can be a bit of a challenge with the fussies. Congratulations on making the effort to feed raw. A healthy life style choice for you cats, thats for sure! I also took a quick peek at Blue Ridge. You would definitely have to add some supplements and that would be easy to do, just would take a little more time, that's all. Hare Today as a supplement that they just send you along with your order to mix in. Most other commercially made raw diets have everything included, so no supplementation necessary. Other than the digestive enzymes and probiotics, which I would recommend starting soon with your kitties. I use this one . Other's use Prozyme. There are many to choose from. Just a good idea to get the cats started during the beginning stages of the transition. Much luck and I am certain others will chime in soon as well. Keep us posted!!!!

 

[ldg]

Since Lauren and Sally already addressed the main issues, the only thing I thing I want to add is a suggestion for a supplement. When I was ordering premixed ground from Hare-Today, I would mostly dethaw the chubs, add the water and the supplement as instructed, and then package into the amount I'd need to feed each meal, and refreeze the packages. https://www.hare-today.com/product_...d=290&osCsid=60052891922d198a8f198dc65de46344 I provided a link to the smaller package, but they do have the same thing in a larger size. :nod:

I think you're going to find you need to feed less than you're planning! Mine are eating at just around 2% or less of their body weight. :nod: They use ALL the nutrition in raw, and if they're not very active, they just don't need much! I thought two of mine were losing weight - turns out they gained a little. What happens is that they'll start to look thinner - but muscle weighs more, and you'll find they're converting their fat to muscle. :nod: If you don't have a good scale to weigh them, because they both need to lose weight, I'd get one. I'd start at 2.5% and see how it goes for a week. I suspect you'll find you only need 2% - and maybe even a little less. :nod:

 

[xcourtney3]

Thanks for the advice, guys! My husband and I went over the numbers and I think we're going to feed closer to .34 of a lb which I think is about 5.4 ounces/day. So I think I'd need about 21 lbs/month for them both? I was considering feeding kitten mix primarily, since it's already got muscle meat/bones/organs and I don't have a grinder yet to get stuff from the grocery store on my own. (they've never had whole prey, except maybe the first few days/weeks of life when they were alone outside. I want to eventually work my way up to that but I think ground is the best way to start. I've tried feeding them small chunks of chicken and beef hearts in the past and it was a no-go) However, I was thinking about getting a meat/bone mix of a different meat to feed as a mid day snack. I'm wondering if that would be TOO MUCH meat/bone per day and not enough organs..? Also, I think I need to supplement a little, but what would I need to use? Is there one supplement that has most of everything? I know a lot of people use fish for the omega-3s. The cats both have had sardines when they were very little and LOVED them. However, Simba has had an episode of urinary problems in 2010 so I don't know if I can do that. This is a bit overwhelming lol
 

 

[ldg]

Regarding the supplement, I think maybe you missed my post. :lol3:

Since Lauren and Sally already addressed the main issues, the only thing I thing I want to add is a suggestion for a supplement. When I was ordering premixed ground from Hare-Today, I would mostly dethaw the chubs, add the water and the supplement as instructed, and then package into the amount I'd need to feed each meal, and refreeze the packages. https://www.hare-today.com/product_...d=290&osCsid=60052891922d198a8f198dc65de46344 I provided a link to the smaller package, but they do have the same thing in a larger size. :nod:

It's VERY easy to use. One scoop per pound of meat/bones/organs, and it just melts when you add the recommended amount of water, so very easy to mix in!

On the mixes - just ask what percentage the bone is of the mix. Can't hurt to ask what the organs are, and what % they are. Ideally, you're looking for 8% - 10% bone, 5% liver, and 5% "other secreting organ." Heart, lung, gizzard - those are organs, but don't count as "other secreting organs." Those would be kidney, spleen, pancreas - that kind of thing. Most commercial mixes, unless they're whole prey ground, have just liver, maybe kidney, and target 10% bone, which is fine, if you add a supplement.

If the bone percent is higher, all you have to do is add some regular meat to "thin out" the amount of bone they'd be getting.

For me, it was easiest to start with the ground mixes. It got me used to feeding raw, and the kitties used to eating raw.

Three of our boys had problems with crystals, but it was back in 2004 and 2005. Some kitties are very sensitive to the fish - others not so much. I'm feeding sardines once a week (not as a meal, but as a "snack."). So far, no problems.... :cross:

 

[xcourtney3]

Ok, just got back from the vet. My male weighs 19lbs, female weighs 17lbs. I asked the vet how many calories per day I would need to feed each cat in order to ensure weight loss. She gave me the numbers: 100 cal/day for female, 125 cal/day for male. Does this sound right to anyone? It seems *really* low in my head, but maybe I just don't understand.
 

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Sounds way off to me.  Of course, it depends on how active they are, but an average cat should consume about 20 calories per lb of body weight of they are at their desired weight.  If they are too fat, then you would want to drop that a little.  But based on that, I'm wondering if she was telling you the number of calories you should DECREASE per day, not the total to feed?  But for raw, most people don't count calories, but do a % of what they weight (first converting their pounds to ounces!).  For example, feed between 2 - 3 % of their body weight.  So my 7 lb girl gets 2.4 ounces of raw per day.

 

[ldg]

That sounds WAY off to me too!!!!!! I found that my gang - inactive, older cats - only needed about 15 calories per pound when I was feeding canned food. But that's still a calorie count that is a heck of a lot higher than the numbers the vet gave you.

But raw feeders don't look at it that way, as Sally pointed out. The calories from raw vs. kibble are canned are completely different: in raw, they come from protein and fat almost exclusively. In canned and kibble, there's calories from carbs, and those don't get utilized as energy, they just go to fat. So when feeding raw, you really don't need to think in terms of calories, you just need to figure out where their metabolism is in that range of 2% - 4% of their body weight. SO much easier to use a food scale to feed a meal rather than sit there and multiply to get calories!!!

I started mine at 2.5% of their body weight - and they started gaining weight, so I reduced it.

Most of mine - but I think most of the kitties being transitioned right now by others on this board - are eating around 2% of their body weight. I have one fatty that has a REALLY - and I mean - REALLY slow metabolism. I've had to take him down to about 1.5% of his body weight. I THINK he's starting to VERY SLOWLY lose weight now. I know Carolina's Bugsy, who weighed 20 pounds, had to be taken down to 1.85% of his body weight to start losing weight, and he's losing a rather steady 4 oz a week now, a very safe rate of loss at that weight. :nod: You really don't want them losing faster when they're that overweight, or they run the risk of developing fatty liver. You don't want their liver flooded with fat stores - their systems aren't designed to process them properly.