Starting a raw diet!

[labugsy]

Hi everyone,

I am getting ready to start my kittens on raw food and could use some advice. I recently (within the last 7 weeks) adopted 3 kittens. I have never had any pets before because my mom is allergic to cats and dogs. About 1 month ago, my boyfriend and I adopted a 4 month old kitten named Wobbles (the rescue group gave him that name, and we got used to calling him Wobbles, so it stuck). We had talked about adopting a kitten, but I didn't get to do a lot of research beforehand because of the situation. He is an amputee... my poor baby's previous owners threw him out on the street and thankfully a kind neighbor brought him into the vet. He was dragging his left hind leg behind him and couldn't walk on it, and it was cut up and bloody... ends up his leg had been broken for over a week and his owners had thrown him out instead of taking him to the vet. Fortunately, the woman who rescued him was a friend of a friend, and we found out about him after she had contacted a rescue group. We were able to contact the rescue group quickly enough that we could pay for his amputation, and we decided to adopt him right away. So, after he was ready to leave the vet, he came home with us. So, essentially, I was more concerned with getting him healthy than researching what to feed him... so I put him on the dry food recommended by his vet (science diet), with canned food twice a day. Thanks to all the time I spent reading these forums while he was healing, I soon learned that dry food was NOT the way to go... but I was panicked about feeding raw, so I switched to a premium (NV Instinct, Wellness, Hound and Gatos, and Tiki Cat chicken varieties) canned diet 100% of the time.

About one month after Wobbles' surgery when he had fully recovered, we decided to get him a companion because my boyfriend and I both work, and he is a VERY social kitten. Long story short, we went to the shelter intending to get one kitten... and ended up with two, who we named Iris and Elsa. They are all roughly the same age (4.5-6 months), so out house is a little bit insane right now but it's so, so much fun

. All three are on an all wet diet, and doing well... up until recently. Within the last four or five days, Wobbles has started vomiting and having diarrhea after his Wellness CORE kitten food. I'm not sure why, but he has been to the vet (twice) and tested negative for any parasites. All three kittens have been deformed multiple times, are up to date on vaccines, and are spayed/neutered. Then, I opened one of their cans of food the other day and it smelled a little off... and then I noticed a large, dead fly in the middle of the can. Needless to say, that was the last straw for me with any commercial pet food. Not sure if the case I bought was bad (expiration dates were fine), but the other two kittens were fine. Wobbles has always had a very sensitive stomach (cannot stomach any wheat, corn, or a lot of starchy vegetables), and is a very picky eater. After all this, I decided it was time to get over my fear and start raw feeding. I probably would have done it sooner except my vet HATED the idea. Needless to say, I am taking them to a holistic vet from now on, who will hopefully do more than give me poor quality Science Diet food when they are having digestive problems.

So, last night I decide to try some raw chicken thighs on them, and see how they feel about just raw meat (no bones or organs). Well, to my surprise, Wobbles and Iris loved it! They went absolutely crazy for it, and were running in circles around my kitchen island, trying to find more of it. Any time they see a paper plate (what I fed them the raw chicken thigh on) they start freaking out because they think they are getting chicken. Elsa would not eat it initially, but did eat it easily when I put just a smidge of wet food on it, and has eaten it twice since.

Sorry for carrying on and on with background, but the main question I have is... what is the best way to transition them? I'm relatively sure they will take to it well (or as sure as I can be... they change their tastes on a whim). I'm just worried that with Wobbles' sensitive stomach, he will get sick on it and then develop an aversion to raw food. Does anyone have any advice on transitioning kittens/cats with sensitive stomachs? I was planning on transitioning them all slowly by mixing it with their wet food (but NO Wellness

) Oh, and even before I decided to transition to raw, I decided to use a probiotic for all three of them (still waiting on my shipment). My general plan is to buy the whole fine ground chicken, rabbit, and turkey from my pet carnivore, and add  Alnutrin (the one designed for use with bone and organ), as well as some chicken livers and hearts to bring up the meat to bone ratio a little bit, since MPC's 10% is a little on the high side. I also have salmon oil capsules to add before serving, and the probiotic, when I get it. Does this sound like a good diet and am I missing anything major? My holistic vet approved, but I just wanted to ask a larger group of people for their thoughts  

. I've been researching for what seems like forever now, and this is the diet I feel is best and I am most comfortable with. However, I don't know anyone else who feeds raw, and all my pet parent friends and family think I'm a little bit crazy... but I want to do what is best for them, and all the research I've done says that a raw diet is the way to do that. I really think it is what is best for Wobbles' food sensitivities as well... and I hope I didn't give him those sensitivities by feeding him dry food for a few weeks.

Thank you so much in advance for any advice/support... I still kind of feel a little overwhelmed by feeding a raw diet (and some days just being a mom to three kittens in general!) so any advice from the more experienced crowd is great!

Lauren

 

[ritz]

Welcome to The Cat Site. And we here don't consider you crazy for wanting to feed your cats species appropriate food.
Sounds like you did your homework! I remember researching the issue to death (analyze, paralyze) so just decided to go the commercial raw route for a while until I was more comfortable with frankenprey/prey model raw. Ritz loves all food, so transitioning was never a problem.
I think giving them bits and pieces of raw is fine; start giving them more raw, less canned until they are on 100% raw. Once their raw diet is more than 15% of their total diet, you will need to balance using the 80/10/5/5% guidelines.
What ingredients were in Wellness? She may be reacting to an additive versus protein, so try avoiding that protein all together for a while.
PS: heart is considered a protein, not an organ. And you will have to invest in a good quality scale.

 

[vball91]

Hi and welcome to TCS. It sounds like you have done your homework and are ready. Your kittens seem like they will be easy to transition to raw. I think your plan sounds good. The only other things I can think of that you may want to add are raw egg yolks and sardines once in a while to round out the nutritional profile. One other thing, some cats seem to have a definite texture preference, so some prefer ground raw and others prefer chunks/slices. Good luck on the transition and keep us posted. Oh, and we love pictures here, especially of kittens.

 

[stiletto]

Kittens transition so easily, especially if they were strays before. Chances are their momma fed them raw to begin with. They'll be back on in no time!! =D

 

[labugsy]

Thank you all for the encouragement

 

I am picking up my order from my pet carnivore tomorrow evening, so I am planning to mix up their first batch of raw this weekend! I'm excited to see how they take to it, and hopefully it goes well!

Ritz- Thank you for the advice, I will definitely transition them slowly. I'm still not sure what he reacted to in the Wellness... Turkey and chicken are the only proteins, but there is some herring further down on the ingredient list. He eats other turkey and chicken foods fine, so I'm still not sure what was up. He's been acting fine lately on his other foods, with no digestive troubles. And thanks for the input about heart being a protein instead of an organ... I definitely would have grouped it with organs. And I invested in a good scale a while ago. I was going to invest in a grinder too, but I would like to eventually transition them to a frankenprey diet at some point. I have always wanted to, but the idea was so intimidating, until I looked up a bunch of menus here and on other sites and it doesn't see quite as scary, as long as you put the time in to come up with menus that work for your cats and are balanced.  I thought I would try the ground raw first (since it's a little more similar to canned) and then slowly transitioning them when the time comes. But I'm taking it one step at a time.

Vball91- I feed them a little bit of water packed, low-salt sardines a couple times a week as a treat and they love them. I tried a raw egg yolk the other day and only one of the kittens would eat it (Iris eats anything), but the other two kittens sniffed at it... then stuck their paws in it and tried to play with it. I am going to try and mix it in with their ground raw to see if I can hide it that way. I'm going to try and give them a variety of textures (if they'll let me). The raw chicken I gave them to try was in little cubes and very thin slices, and they ate it fine. I also bought a supplement with and without calcium so if one kitten doesn't like the ground texture or anything else about the MPC fine ground, I can still get them on raw with just boneless chunks at first.

Stiletto- I didn't even think about that being what their mom fed them before they were taken in but that's probably true... hopefully you are right and they are in fact back on it in no time

I will keep you posted on how their first meal goes! Thanks for the help!

 

[laralove]

I use this recipe  (the one without bones, and I use egg shell instead of bone meal). When I transitioned Oliver to raw, he didn't take to it at first. When he didn't eat it the first time, I put it in the fridge and waited a couple of hours, then tried again. Still wasn't having it. So we mixed it with some of his commercial wet and then he ate it. I think it was a textural issue for him, because he LOVED raw if I just cut the meat into little pieces and served him that way. His reaction was similar to what you described from your kitties: he'd run around the kitchen all excited and meowing for more. 

Anyway, after a few meals with wet mixed in, he started taking it 100%. Also, after freezing then thawing, it thickened, so that helped. Point of my post is that if you go through all the work to make the homemade raw and they don't take to it right away, don't be discouraged. They've already shown they like it, so it won't take them long to adjust. And they may take to it right away!

And thank you for doing your research before jumping into a raw diet.

 

[ritz]

Ritz won't touch raw egg yolk but loves it cooked. (I eat the whites as a source of protein.) I do not know if cooking the yolk changes the nutritional value. It does have a fair amount of calories in either case.
And I started Ritz off with commercial raw (RadCat) for the same reason you did: it looks/feels like canned food.
Ritz was addicted to Fancy Feast Classic Seafood, which is one reason I transitioned her to raw. Interestingly she no longer cares for fish of any kind, like sardines, though will thankfully eat the food that I've put Krill Oil on. But since Ritz is prone to UTIs, I'm not taking any chances--so wouldn't feed her sardines/fish anyway.

 

[labugsy]

So I tried the kittens on their first partially raw meal tonight and they all ate it, with varying degrees of enthusiasm. My ground raw from MPC hasn't had enough time to thaw yet, so I decided to try some chicken thigh pieces with Call of the Wild sprinkled on them and mixed that into a little bit of their canned food. Iris ate it all enthusiastically, and went and picked out any chunks of chicken left in the other kittens' dishes. I also split half a chicken heart between Iris and Wobbles while I was prepping their food, and they loved that, to my surprise. Wobbles seems to have some trouble chewing though... he would pick pieces up and try and chew them, then they would sort of fall back out of his mouth, and he would have to pick it up again and keep trying to eat it... is this normal? The vet said his teeth and gums looked fine last time he was there. He also seems to like to carry his food to other places to keep it away from the other two kittens. Weirdly enough, he also seemed to prefer eating the chunks of chicken plain as opposed to having them mixed in his wet food. Elsa still won't eat raw chunks of chicken on their own, but will easily eat them mixed in her wet food.

All in all though, it went pretty well. Hopefully I will have a batch of ground raw to give them by Saturday. I'll keep you posted on how that goes!

 

[laralove]

So glad it went relatively well. Oliver had some issues keeping bigger pieces in his mouth at first. I think it was just an adjustment since he was used to pate. He doesn't have problems with it now. Hopefully the ground is a hit!

 

[labugsy]

Well, I have good news! All the kittens LOVE their ground food! They gobbled it up and are currently begging for more. I made the batch all chicken, since that is the main protein in most of the wet foods they eat now. Really though, they have eaten almost any protein I put in front of them in canned form. The only common protein I have never tried was beef, as I was concerned about them being sensitive. I might try and mix it in 50/50 with chicken at some point. Right now I made batches of chicken, rabbit, and turkey.

I also noticed when I gave them chunks of meat today, Wobbles chewed them much better. Weirdly enough, he would eat the chunks of chicken thigh completely raw,but not sprinkled with Call of the Wild... but when I mixed one tiny teaspoon of his normal wet foods in, he ate it enthusiastically (Call of the Wild and all) and even ate around the wet food to get to the chunks of chicken?? So as best I can figure he doesn't like the smell or something, since he still ate all of it. I am planning on giving them one meal of meat chunks a day for dental health, so I'll have to figure something out for him. Maybe less than the recommended dose on the package, or I might give him some of his meat without Call of the Wild as the ground from MPH probably is a little bone heavy anyways (even though I did add 10% ground hearts and gizzards to the ground mix to bring down the bone percentage)

All three kittens ate the ground food on it's own with no issues, so I am going to start integrating new proteins one by one. Iris was so excited when I was making a second batch of ground today, she ran into the kitchen at full speed, jumped, and latched herself to my thigh and didn't want to let go! She has certainly never done that before! I think she was trying to climb up my leg to get on the counter, since she is still too small to jump that high. It was cute, but definitely a reminder that she is due for a nail trim this weekend... And now because I made the mistake of giving them some treats while I was mixing up their food earlier, they all think that any time I am preparing anything in the kitchen, it is raw food for them. Which to me a is at least a little proof that they like raw food more than wet since they have never acted this way before. And when they are eating their raw food they just seem so much happier. They make little growling sounds, and Elsa purrs the entire time she is eating, which she never used to do.

All in all, I feel like they're doing great. I'm sure there are still plenty of little quirks I'll end up discovering (just like I learned Wobbles will refuse to eat rehydrated freeze dried raw unless it has an almost soupy consistency) but I think all three of them are definitely on the right track.

 

[labugsy]

Here is Wobbles, begging me to get up and make him some food

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• labugsy
• Feb 2, 2014

 

[labugsy]

And Wobbles and Iris together (Iris almost never sits still unless she is sleeping!):

20140104_112244.jpg

• labugsy
• Feb 2, 2014

And finally, Miss Elsa:

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• labugsy
• Feb 2, 2014

 

[labugsy]

And finally, some sleepy, content kittens after their first ground raw meal this morning:

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• labugsy
• Feb 2, 2014

Oh and this picture, just because it's one of my favorites =)

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• labugsy
• Feb 2, 2014

Alright, I'll stop with the pictures now!

 

[vball91]

It sounds like the transition is going great! And I love the pictures. Keep them coming!

 

[labugsy]

Hi Everyone!

Just wanted to post an update... the kittens are doing great, and are eating 100% raw now!! Elsa still needs a little bit of prompting every now and then in the form of toppers. Iris will eat literally anything I put in front of her. Wobbles will eat his homemade ground raw and raw meat chunks fine... but lately he will not touch raw meat with call of the wild. He has never been keen on the smell, and now it's gotten to the point where he eats it only if I feed him the pieces of meat one at a time, which is obviously something I want to avoid.

So... this all got me thinking.. if Wobbles and Iris love snacking on raw meat chunks and heart so much, and don't seem to like COTW, why not change their "lunch" meal everyday to a PMR? They eat 3 meals a day right now. Breakfast and dinner (before I go to work and before I go to bed) are ground raw (MPC or HT ground bone in mixes plus Alnutrin for meat/bones/organs), and their "lunch" when I get home from work is chunks of boneless meat with COTW. I like feeding them some ground since Elsa will only eat ground and not chunks of raw at all, unless they are supplemented with COTW (and even then sometimes she is finicky about the amount of powder), and it would be nice for the sake of my boyfriend and petsitters if there were some meals they could all eat that were the same. Plus, it helps me hide things that they might not like on its own. Elsa would be getting all three meals ground raw (varying proteins of course) with as many chunks mixed in as she will tolerate, so her dental health doesn't suffer.

What I am really wondering is if I could use the lunch meal as a sort of one meal a week PMR? As in use the 80/10/5/5 rules to balance their lunch meal over the course of a week? I like PMR for the ease of sourcing ingredients and the dental health. Plus, Iris just LOVES going at huge chunks of meat, so I think it appeals to her a LOT. However, I am nervous about them eating whole bones right off the bat, and also want more control over the Ca ratio in their food, so I'd like to supplement with eggshell powder (so that makes the percentages 90/5/5, I believe?) I know from researching I should use 1/32 tsp per ounce of meat and 3/64 per ounce of organ. What I wonder is, does their weekly allotment of calcium need to be evenly distributed between each meal? Or can it be served in any combination throughout the week? What I mean is right now, the kittens get 2.5 ounces of meat each at their "lunch". So, if I know that they eat 17.5 ounces at lunch per week, that's 1.75 ounces of liver/secreting organ and 15.75 ounces of meat. Using the above mentioned amounts of eggshell powder, they should be getting [(3/64 + 0.75*(3/64) + (15*(1/32)+(0.75*1/32)], or roughly 0.575 tsp of eggshell powder over the course of the week. Can I take that amount (roughly 0.60 tsp) and divide it amongst, say, three or four of the meals per week instead of all 7? Or is that too much calcium at one time? I know most PMR feeders who feed bone only feed bone in meals a couple times a week usually. I don't mind doing it either way, but if I can avoid measuring out very small amounts of calcium per meal, I'd like to.  

Thanks for the help!