Something's fishy

[mssandora]

Can fishy foods raise the pH level of a cat's urine? My Tyler who just discovered he's a boy (thank goodness he's getting neutered next month) was excessively licking his boy business. I noticed it was raw. Called the vet. She suggested I bring in a urine sample. He had some crystals and a 7.0 pH level in the urine. We've switched him over to mostly canned food now. The other vet that I saw said the rawness was caused by the excessive licking, but mentioned that we had to get his pH level down as that's what's causing the crystals. He suggested that we put him on SD c/d or Purina ur. I really don't like what's in those foods. Currently, he's eating natural balance wet, blue spa wet and innova dry (just as a snack to nibble on during the day). He's only 7 months old. I really don't want to put him on a prescription diet especially one I don't like.

Could the fish foods, plus the fact that prior to this he was eating mostly dry have caused this...and could a more canned food diet help this situation. And, has anyone heard of UTI paste. I've seen it at the pet store...but am a little leery of it.

BTW, I'll be taking another urine sample in this week to check his pH levels again. But thought if anyone had any suggestions or thoughts...that would be great.

 

[catsallover]

I have 2 cats who had crystals, and turns out one of them gets crystals and an infection from eating fish. I had them on prescription food to get rid of the crystals (for about about a year, maybe- it's been a while

) and then switched to mixing, and then alternating, a 20 lb bag of regular SD and a 10 lb bag of prescription food (because I have 4 older cats who free feed- got permission from my vet to try it

). Then I realized I was having to put her on a bag of the prescription and antibiotics everytime she ate canned food with fish in it (they get canned food as treats), and read the SD- no fish. Old food had fish. Then I came here and found a better food-(thanks everybody!

) (Felidae Chicken and Rice) and still no problems after a few months from either cat.

Like I said, I discussed what I was doing with my vet, and your cat will probably need to be on the RX for a while until the crystals go away, at the very least. Royal Canin also makes an RX line- one of my vets carries it regularly. I have also read several threads that say feeding wet food will help, but mine drink plenty (they really love it now that we have a new dog- for some reason, my cats LOVE a dog drooled water bowl

)

I hope he's better soon!

 

[mssandora]

I have also discussed this with my vet and he's fine for the time being with my bringing in another urine sample and having it tested. His pH level was at 7...optimum is 6.2 - 6.4. The vet said they've seen them much higher (8.6). The only reason I even took a sample in was because Tyler is getting neutered next month and as I mentioned, has discovered his boy business and was "grooming" it to the point it was raw. The vet said that he had some crystals. No blood and no pus. He's not straining. Not urininating outside the box. Not urinating small doses. No signs really of any problems. The vet checked him over and the rawness was due to overgrooming because he liked the way it felt.

Before this incident, however, Tyler was eating not only a mostly dry diet (with canned food as a treat), that dry food was Frohmm Salmon...so he was getting an overdose of fish. The vet suggested a mostly canned diet for more moisture in the food and no fish.

I, like you, would never do anything without discussing it first with my vet because I try to do everything I can not to put any of my 4 cats at risk. I personally, however, do not like the ingredients in the foods that he recommended as they are mostly by-products and grain. To me, that's putting them at risk. That's why, I would, if possible, like to find something healthier. I read labels and none of the canned food he's currently eating has any fish in it. The innova dry has a bit of herring, so we'll look for a food like that that doesn't have any fish products in it. And if he has to go on a prescription diet, then it will be done. But, honestly, reading the ingredients and the levels of everything in the prescription...he's currently getting a better food...with no more ash...no more magnesium than what the prescription provides. The dry science diet also has BHA and BTA in it, which I won't give him.

And who knows. Perhaps the decrease of fish. The increase of canned food (for more water) will lower his pH level without having to put him on a prescription diet at 7 months old.

 

[kura]

I only give my cats tuna from a can, every so often as a treat and they have never had this problem... Maybe you feed your cats too much canned or fresh fish?

 

[yosemite]

Some cats have real problems with fish. I think you are on the right track. Also remember that a lot of vets know next to nothing about nutrition. There are some instances of course where your cat may need to be on a special diet due to medical issues, but overall try feeding something with no fish, no by-products, corn and fillers. IMO vets often recommend food that the sales reps leave at their office and don't really have a clue whether it's good or bad food. You are right to look for a better quality food.

Also, it is not good to give them very much human canned tuna and then only that which is packed in water rather than oil which you did not say you did anyway, but I noticed the other poster mentioned it. My cats won't touch anything with fish in it.

 

[kura]

I give them canned tuna in brine, about once or if they are lucky twice a month. I was told it's better for them rather than oil.

 

[sharky]

When my 18 yr old got her first UTI the vet immeidiately said no fish for a month

... It worked

 

[gizmocat]

You can change the food to another protein source. I feed my cat 'rabbit' and her health has dramatically improved.
Many cat foods contain fish oil and some such as California Natural have shifted to flaxseed oil instead. This is a superior food that I can recommend to everyone. I fed it to Gizmo until we ascertained that she was allergic to chicken.

 

[catsallover]

Originally Posted by mssandora

I have also discussed this with my vet and he's fine for the time being with my bringing in another urine sample and having it tested. His pH level was at 7...optimum is 6.2 - 6.4. The vet said they've seen them much higher (8.6). The only reason I even took a sample in was because Tyler is getting neutered next month and as I mentioned, has discovered his boy business and was "grooming" it to the point it was raw. The vet said that he had some crystals. No blood and no pus. He's not straining. Not urininating outside the box. Not urinating small doses. No signs really of any problems. The vet checked him over and the rawness was due to overgrooming because he liked the way it felt.

Before this incident, however, Tyler was eating not only a mostly dry diet (with canned food as a treat), that dry food was Frohmm Salmon...so he was getting an overdose of fish. The vet suggested a mostly canned diet for more moisture in the food and no fish.

I, like you, would never do anything without discussing it first with my vet because I try to do everything I can not to put any of my 4 cats at risk. I personally, however, do not like the ingredients in the foods that he recommended as they are mostly by-products and grain. To me, that's putting them at risk. That's why, I would, if possible, like to find something healthier. I read labels and none of the canned food he's currently eating has any fish in it. The innova dry has a bit of herring, so we'll look for a food like that that doesn't have any fish products in it. And if he has to go on a prescription diet, then it will be done. But, honestly, reading the ingredients and the levels of everything in the prescription...he's currently getting a better food...with no more ash...no more magnesium than what the prescription provides. The dry science diet also has BHA and BTA in it, which I won't give him.

And who knows. Perhaps the decrease of fish. The increase of canned food (for more water) will lower his pH level without having to put him on a prescription diet at 7 months old.

I wasn't implying that you weren't discussing things with your vet, only that if you tried correcting the problem the same way I did (Inspired partially because my vet looked a little aprehensive when I said it was working, before I

figured out what her problem was,) to be sure and let your vet know- for the most part, we don't personally know each other here, and, other people are probably going to read this too

,who may be inclined to try something like that, and they shouldn't, unless they talk to their vet first

.

Did you look up the ingredients for the Royal Canin Rx? I've heard other people say that it is better than the Purina and SD, though I don't remember what was in it- it's been a while

.

And unless I'm mistaken (and someone please correct me if I am

), sometimes a prescription food is required to disolve the crystals, and then the cat is put on a prescription for maintence if needed- just turns out my cats' maintence is as simple as "no fish"

-and Felidae- Chicken and Rice is a very good food, with no fish. I feed mine the dry, with "Natural Life Chicken and Veggie Platter for treat time- no fish, none of the ingredients you mentioned that you didn't want. However, if your vet just noticed crystals without any obvious problems yet, just the change in food may do it.

I'm glad you caught it early- boys!

!

 

[mssandora]

You're right cats...sometimes it's hard to read things and not take it in the manner that it was intended. So if I jumped to any conclusions as well, I apologize.

We're switching the dry food for now to california natural. It's made by the same people that make the innova that he was used to eating, except it doesn't contain herring. I'm still watching him closely and want to get a sample in early this week and see if there's any change. And then get another sample in next week to see if the pH is even lower.

I will DEFINITELY check the ingredients in the Royal Canin Rx and see what's in that.

The initial vet that I spoke with did feel that by upping his canned food that the increased moisture could help to keep the crystals from forming. After speaking with the other vet, however, I do want to keep an eye on his pH.

Thanks so much for all your advice everyone.

 

[catsallover]

It's okay

been there...

- I'll try to phrase it a little better next time I have to say it

. Let us know how it goes!