So What Exactly Is Wrong With Vegan Cat Food?

[orange&white]

Yeah! The flaw with her experience is that she had also been feeding dry so it’s hard to tell which one is the bigger culprit. But I’m guessing they sort of made the problem bigger together because if I understand her story, they all got immensely sick after just a few months of having them? Makes me feel so bad.

Yes, after several expensive vet trips to have her cat catheterized just so he could pee, she decided maybe a diet of all veggies and carbs wasn't such a great idea afterall.

 

[Yanaka]

Yes, after several expensive vet trips to have her cat catheterized just so he could pee, she decided maybe a diet of all veggies and carbs wasn't such a great idea afterall.

All. The. Carbs.

 

[kittyluv387]

Everyone else has explained very thoroughly. I don't have dogs and i love cats more but people should not be feeding dogs a vegan diet either. That is also cruel! They come from wolves. Sure the dogs are omnivorous but they are certainly not herbivores!! Why do you think they still have sharp teeth?? All animals should be fed a species appropriate diet and people should stop being narcissists about it.

 

[FlawlessImperfection]

It seems with dogs it's more commonly accepted that Vegan dog food is perfectly fine. But I don't see remotely the same acceptance with cats.

All I keep seeing with cats in post are people saying they're "obligate carnivores" and need taurine.... and that's it? Or a bunch of people just giving anecdotal evidence of irresponsible "not thinking" pet owners feeding their cats just a few vegetables and beans and not a carefully prepared "proper vegan cat diet" with the "necessary stuff".

There are taurine supplements and clearly there are cats surviving on vegan diets or else vegan cat food companies would go bankrupt. I really haven't heard anything bad from anyone feeding a "proper vegan cat diet" to their cats having any problems.

So what exact vitamin and minerals do cats need that are found in meat that you can't supplement with regular supplements or things like vegecat/vegekit? And what would be long term side effects of a cat not eating meat but a "proper vegan cat diet" cause I'm sure by now there's being cats that have lived healthy for a normal cat life span on a "proper vegan cat diet"

Obviously with cats with special needs, and kittens that need KMR or such exceptions can be made, but what about a typical healthy cat?

I understand just hearing “because they are obligate carnivores” sounds like our parents saying “because I said so” as kids- and often, we wanted to the opposite. To explain I will use our ferret Hobbes, who is also an obligate carnivore. Cats and ferrets have similar teeth, they have mostly tearing surface and almost no chewing surfaces, unlike a dog. You can give your dog crunchy treats to clean his teeth, but not so cats because they don’t chew- they gobble, just adjusting it enough to go down the throat. Most important is their very digestion, we all have enzymes made to break down the foods we are made to eat, and what foods we can’t break down are passed without benefit. Plants have tough cell walls that most herbivores have developed systems to break down. Cows with multiple chambered stomachs, and chewing their cud and so on. It’s known that even certain breeds of cats of cats or dogs do better with dietary tweaks because of their ancestry, so taking their food away entirely is not giving them what they need. Finally they love it. They really, really love to eat, and training is fun because of their prey and food drive. I know most vegans are so because they love animals, and I know they also love their pets and wouldn’t to harm them either. It’s a hard thing I understand to feel you are supporting something you don’t believe in, but remember that taking a animal into your home requires you to love and provide the very best you can for it’s health and happiness. Taking away meat takes away both those things sadly, and even if people refute the evidence of health, there is no way to argue the loss of happiness. I know you wouldn’t want to do that to someone you love, and some vegans choose animals that can live on vegetables for that reason. Owning a pet means getting love, but also giving up, money, time, space, cleaning etc, and it’s okay to admit if you are or are not ready for those challenges- even wise to do ahead of choosing a pet. My ferret was disgusted by my thing plant based, although it was always around because my dog gets a wide variety (including meat) to meat his omnivore dietary needs. I’m sure a cat would feel the same. I’m glad you’re asking questions and I hope you find an answer into whether you will care for a cat with a proper diet, or get a veggie loving pet who love you too. I used to come home from lunch when I was young to share a daily salad with my litter trained bunny, best of luck in your decision.

 

[sabrinah]

Domestic cats are simply not evolved to tolerate non-meat food the same way dogs are. The general idea for the evolution of dogs from wolves stems from a few wolves learning they can scavenge food from humans. Those that are less skittish and less aggressive will stick around the humans longer, get more free food, conserve energy, and avoid injury, thus increasing reproductive success. Those wolves that weren't as trusting had to get food the old fashioned way which is hard and dangerous. Now, it is at this point theories diverge a bit. It is either said that humans made the calmer wolves breed together (highly unlikely, as wolves are quite picky breeders and would not be tame enough at that point), or natural selection favored the tamer wolves since they got more food without the hassle. The individuals that performed tasks that benefited humans (for example, chasing down rabbits) were rewarded for their helpful behavior, more than likely with food. The entire evolution of dogs is based on food. They have had ample time for their digestive systems to adapt to non-meat foods. Should a dog be on a vegan diet? I personally don't think so but they have a significantly better chance of doing decently on it than a cat.
The domestication of cats did not involve opportunistic kitties sticking around to steal scraps. Cats have always been prized for their hunting abilities, for keeping pests down. People wanted cats around to eat their rodents, not their vegetable scraps. They have not evolved to process anything else and their entire physiology is based on hunting. Cats have teeth meant to slice into rodents, not grind up vegetable roughage. Protein from beans is not the same as protein from chicken. While I 110% understand the discomfort in feeding meat to animals when you don't eat it yourself, it's part of what comes with owning little carnivores.

 

[FlawlessImperfection]

Domestic cats are simply not evolved to tolerate non-meat food the same way dogs are. The general idea for the evolution of dogs from wolves stems from a few wolves learning they can scavenge food from humans. Those that are less skittish and less aggressive will stick around the humans longer, get more free food, conserve energy, and avoid injury, thus increasing reproductive success. Those wolves that weren't as trusting had to get food the old fashioned way which is hard and dangerous. Now, it is at this point theories diverge a bit. It is either said that humans made the calmer wolves breed together (highly unlikely, as wolves are quite picky breeders and would not be tame enough at that point), or natural selection favored the tamer wolves since they got more food without the hassle. The individuals that performed tasks that benefited humans (for example, chasing down rabbits) were rewarded for their helpful behavior, more than likely with food. The entire evolution of dogs is based on food. They have had ample time for their digestive systems to adapt to non-meat foods. Should a dog be on a vegan diet? I personally don't think so but they have a significantly better chance of doing decently on it than a cat.
The domestication of cats did not involve opportunistic kitties sticking around to steal scraps. Cats have always been prized for their hunting abilities, for keeping pests down. People wanted cats around to eat their rodents, not their vegetable scraps. They have not evolved to process anything else and their entire physiology is based on hunting. Cats have teeth meant to slice into rodents, not grind up vegetable roughage. Protein from beans is not the same as protein from chicken. While I 110% understand the discomfort in feeding meat to animals when you don't eat it yourself, it's part of what comes with owning little carnivores.

Well informed answer, nicely done.

 

[epona]

No, it's not right really. My parents and brother are vegan, my husband is pescetarian (veggie + fish) and I was vegetarian for 30 years - our cats are carnivores and eat meat. They have a short digestive system and cannot absorb appropriate nutrients from non-meat sources.

They are obligate carnivores (ie they have to eat meat) and are very predatory - if you want a pet that can have a veggie or vegan diet, then cats are a really bad choice for that.

 

[gareth]

If you want something to eat rabbit food I recommend a rabbit.

What people do with their own life is their choice. What they do for their animals is a responsibility to feed them what you s best for them, not makes you feel warm and fuzzy. Cats need amino acids and proteins from meat, and are wired to eat meat. Their dental makeup is that of a carnivore, and their digestive system is built for processing small furry things. If that thought disturbs someone then again I recommend a rabbit.

 

[Elfilou]

I was vegan for about two years and I'm now vegetarian but I've not once considered feeding my cat a vegan diet. It's very, very clear in the vegan community that cats are carnivores and I would say that probably 98% of vegans feed their cats a regular canned food diet. I would even say that vegans are more aware about the wet food vs. dry food debate than your average cat owner. Sensible vegans and vegetarians recognize their responsibility to make sure their animal thrives, perhaps even more than the average cat or dog guardian.

Even though I loathe factory farming practices and the way in which these animals are tortured to become food, I would not torture my cat by depriving her of food she can thrive on. There is a dilemma here but not one that I can solve unless I'm willing to give up my cat - which I'm not. I would never. She's my best friend and family.

Also, most commercial catfood is made of factory farming -byproducts- so by buying these canned foods you aren't directly increasing the demand for more animals to be slaughtered. I choose to feed more high quality and partially raw so I am contributing to increasing the demand. So who's more important? My cat, or the chickens, cows and pigs that she eats? To me personally, it's my cat. I know it's selfish but we are human and are more attached to the beings we know than those we don't. I can turn a blind eye and that's a luxury.

Lastly, in a lot of online vegan and vegetarian communities the better choice is obvious; adopting a cat from a shelter and feeding them meat vs. not rescuing a cat? Adopt and feed them meat if you have the means to. Most vegans and vegetarians are against breeding and for rescuing and feeding a species appropriate diet. The most popular cat advocates on social media right now (Kitten Lady, Jackson Galaxy) are vegans but feed their cats what they need.

There is an ethical dilemma caused by today's society, but don't think that all vegans and vegetarians are so stupid as to feed their cats plants.

 

[Vega's Dad]

Yeah, I disagreed with 25% vegan too

"I feed 25% vegan food" sounds like "I'm still 25% virgin". I eat lots of meat myself but I may claim I'm vegan or vegetarian, we'l
, part of me
Cats are not Vegan. They are all named Megan

 

[Yanaka]

saleri I’m curious to know how you reply, now? Just because usually these topics make us upset for nothing as it seems the OP never comes back.

 

[saleri]

saleri I’m curious to know how you reply, now? Just because usually these topics make us upset for nothing as it seems the OP never comes back.

I was merely curious and asking around since it seems like this "conversation" is very one sided. Didn't mean to make anyone upset.

I'm vegan myself but feed my two kittens a raw diet and don't plan to stop anytime soon.

The points of certain amino acids and the intestines were more or less expected. Although I do wish some other people used scientific evidence instead of getting emotional.

There are evidence that you can get taurine supplemented completely:

Scientific Opinion on the safety and efficacy of taurine as a feed additive for all animal species

Plus you can get D3 from sheepskin.

Although I'm surprised by the people that don't think dogs can become vegetarian or vegan, some of the longest living dogs were that(believe the oldest ever was vegetarian?), and I've heard of plenty of stories of dogs being perfectly "happy" and healthy. It's often reserved when a dog gets certain allergies, kidney stones and other illness. I mean most dogs in certain countries are vegetarian by default.

Biased obviously, but good info nonetheless.

Vegetarian canine diets

 

[Neo_23]

I was merely curious and asking around since it seems like this "conversation" is very one sided. Didn't mean to make anyone upset.

I'm vegan myself but feed my two kittens a raw diet and don't plan to stop anytime soon.

The points of certain amino acids and the intestines were more or less expected. Although I do wish some other people used scientific evidence instead of getting emotional.

There are evidence that you can get taurine supplemented completely:

Scientific Opinion on the safety and efficacy of taurine as a feed additive for all animal species

Plus you can get D3 from sheepskin.

Although I'm surprised by the people that don't think dogs can become vegetarian or vegan, some of the longest living dogs were that(believe the oldest ever was vegetarian?), and I've heard of plenty of stories of dogs being perfectly "happy" and healthy. It's often reserved when a dog gets certain allergies, kidney stones and other illness. I mean most dogs in certain countries are vegetarian by default.

Biased obviously, but good info nonetheless.

Vegetarian canine diets

Actually, I think the problem is that you didn't address any of the points that we made but instead replied with a general "you didn't give any science so your points are useless" which is usually the ultimate cop-out response. I think this is one of those topics where science is really not needed because the answer is pretty clear cut. But, as a scientist, I would certainly hope that anyone trying to run a study on vegan diets with cats would be prevented from running that study by an ethics board as it certainly would be abuse.

You have to expect that people on a cat site who care deeply about cats would get emotional whenever the topic of animal abuse is at hand.

By the way, taurine is supplemented in almost all commercial cat foods. That's a given. Unless you are serving raw animal hearts you absolutely have to supplement it (some people supplement it anyway with hearts because we usually never feed raw hearts completely fresh right after the kill). That's a little bit different though than deciding that your cat should be completely vegan.

 

[saleri]

Actually, I think the problem is that you didn't address any of the points that we made but instead replied with a general "you didn't give any science so your points are useless" which is usually the ultimate cop-out response. I think this is one of those topics where science is really not needed because the answer is pretty clear cut. But, as a scientist, I would certainly hope that anyone trying to run a study on vegan diets with cats would be prevented from running that study by an ethics board as it certainly would be abuse.

You have to expect that people on a cat site who care deeply about cats would get emotional whenever the topic of animal abuse is at hand.

By the way, taurine is supplemented in almost all commercial cat foods. That's a given. Unless you are serving raw animal hearts you absolutely have to supplement it (some people supplement it anyway with hearts because we usually never feed raw hearts completely fresh right after the kill). That's a little bit different though than deciding that your cat should be completely vegan.

"I think this is one of those topics where science is really not needed because the answer is pretty clear cut"

What?

"I would certainly hope that anyone trying to run a study on vegan diets with cats would be prevented from running that study by an ethics board as it certainly would be abuse. "

Why? If they can find a sustainable and healthy diet to feed their cats, you would be opposed to that? And even if in the worst case scenario that a few cats are somehow harmed in the short term on a improper vegan diet, finding a possible vegan diet for cats will save millions of other animals.

I mean your non-scientific points boil down to what, a cat having to eat a slightly less tasty diet? It's not even a pill, they'll still get to eat other solids that cats probably will enjoy eating somewhat. I don't even understand the argument about "life-long hunters" and what they need to eat? Just continue to play with your cat in hunting like things and what your feeding them relative to this "shouldn't matter"?

 

[Neo_23]

"I think this is one of those topics where science is really not needed because the answer is pretty clear cut"

What?

"I would certainly hope that anyone trying to run a study on vegan diets with cats would be prevented from running that study by an ethics board as it certainly would be abuse. "

Why? If they can find a sustainable and healthy diet to feed their cats, you would be opposed to that? And even if in the worst case scenario that a few cats are somehow harmed in the short term on a improper vegan diet, finding a possible vegan diet for cats will save millions of other animals.

I mean your non-scientific points boil down to what, a cat having to eat a slightly less tasty diet? It's not even a pill, they'll still get to eat other solids that cats probably will enjoy eating somewhat. I don't even understand the argument about "life-long hunters" and what they need to eat? Just continue to play with your cat in hunting like things and what your feeding them relative to this "shouldn't matter"?

I hope you know how radical and ridiculous you sound in your post. You think that you are actually helping animals by making "a few cats suffer" so that the rest of them can all become vegans? What's next? Are you going to go out into the wild and start feeding cougars broccoli?

The point is that eating meat is not just a food for cats, it's a part of their lifestyle. Their entire physique, way of living, mentality, and metabolic system was built for hunting and then consuming raw meat. So yes, when you take away something so central to a creature's life only because you believe that your pretentious vegan morals are superior to how nature intended animals to exist that is called abuse.

I certainly hope that my tax dollars will never be spent on such nonsense science such as converting carnivores into herbivores just to please a few vegans.

 

[saleri]

I hope you know how radical and ridiculous you sound in your post. You think that you are actually helping animals by making "a few cats suffer" so that the rest of them can all become vegans? What's next? Are you going to go out into the wild and start feeding cougars broccoli?

The point is that eating meat is not just a food for cats, it's a part of their lifestyle. Their entire physique, way of living, mentality, and metabolic system was built for hunting and then consuming raw meat. So yes, when you take away something so central to a creature's life only because you believe that your pretentious vegan morals are superior to how nature intended animals to exist that is called abuse.

I certainly hope that my tax dollars will never be spent on such nonsense science such as converting carnivores into herbivores just to please a few vegans.

Well the idea isn't to appease a few vegans but potentially eliminate the needless suffering of millions of animals at the slaughterhouse. I don't think most vegans care too much about what happens in nature, but that's another discussion. I mean assuming the typical cat lives 15 years, he/she will consume close to 2000 chickens over his life time. I would imagine it would be nice if we can provide an alternative diet and prevent these chickens from being slaughtered, in most likely less then ideal situations.

I don't quite understand why it would be radical for one if they had a vegan diet that was healthy for their cats to feed it to them.

 

[Neo_23]

Well the idea isn't to appease a few vegans but potentially eliminate the needless suffering of millions of animals at the slaughterhouse. I don't think most vegans care too much about what happens in nature, but that's another discussion. I mean assuming the typical cat lives 15 years, he/she will consume close to 2000 chickens over his life time. I would imagine it would be nice if we can provide an alternative diet and prevent these chickens from being slaughtered, in most likely less then ideal situations.

I don't quite understand why it would be radical for one if they had a vegan diet that was healthy for their cats to feed it to them.

I don't think approaching the problem by stopping domestic cats from eating meat is the best solution. It's not even realistic. As someone mentioned before, most of the meat that goes into commercial cat food involves by-products or unwanted meat from human grade slaughterhouses, so pets eating commercial pet food is really not at the core of the problem.

I don't think you're really getting the point that if a vegan diet was going to be healthy for cats they wouldn't be carnivores. You're trying to play God here by altering the basic needs of a living creature. This is not the solution.

 

[Yanaka]

Hmmmm I call BS on the oldest dog ever being vegetarian. lol According to a simpla Google search, both dogs that have lived up to 29 years old were not vegetarian, and the most recent one is pictured eating Frolic--one of the worst foods out there but meat-based. That's no science, and even if the oldest dog ever were vegetarian that wouldn't mean cr*p either. Talking about wanting scientific evidence...

Your first post didn't sound curious, it sounded hostile and with an agenda. I'm actually surprised you feed your cats meat, because it sounded like you were trying to feed them vegan. I have nothing against the vegan agenda and trying to preach it (I try to go vegan but I'm bad at it so I'm mostly vegetarian), but I don't know what's up with this topic and you not liking the answers.

If you want to torture a few thousand cats for your science, go ahead. Someone's probably already doing it to prove their point. I'm not sure you're being a good vegan representative here, though. There are cases where we need to listen to nature and others where that isn't relevant, I get it: like we don't need meat like our ancestors did, but felines do.

 

[cheesycats]

It would be well and good if there was a healthy vegan diet for cats but there isn’t. So I’m not sure why the topic is being argued. If someone wants to supplement their cat to death with fake vitamins while it consumed a diet it can’t properly digest or retain any nutrients from then good luck to them hopefully they are caught early and educated before they’re cats live a life of suffering and die an early death.

I doubt there will ever be a healthy way to feed a cat vegan at least not in our lifetime. But seeing as the creation of very crappy commercial kibbles since the late 1800s I wouldn’t be suprised if in 10,000-20,000 years cats have evolved to be omnivorous like dogs did when they evolved from wolves living along side not very smart humans. But we won’t be around to see such a thing. So no reason to even consider it.

 

[Yanaka]

BTW I really don't believe in dogs being able to be vegetarian or even *very* omnivorous. Seriously, the dogs I experienced eating grain in their food and veggies (like fresh veggies tossed at them from the kitchen), they all fart and have terrible poop and are overweight. No science here either, but it really doesn't look great and I hate some of these nonsense trends. If you don't want to buy meat-based stuff for the animals, just get a herbivore pet. If you want to promote the absence of slaughterhouses in the world, go get all the carnivorous pets spayed and get their population decreased until they don't exist anymore (and that's provided people have all gone vegan as well by then).

Edit: actually the only cruelty-free way to feed a cat meat would be synthesized meat from laboratories I guess (provided they are exactly the same nutrient-wise than organic meat). But that is no option for a while so stick to the meat until then, please.