Slippery Elm Bark, Wet food, Managing Constipation

[abbyntim]

 
Since my last post here, Dory's going every other day...squeee!  I feel like I'm jinxing it by posting.  Last Saturday, she went on schedule--3 days.  Then she went Sunday, which blew my mind and since then, she's been going every other day.  That's pretty close to her pre-prozac days.  

I'm not sure how Cisapride worked and how much it's affected her schedule post-dosing.  I'm quite pleased and pleasantly surprised Cisapride seems to have worked in jumpstarting her BM schedule without long term dosing.  Dory was on it for only 20 days.  I've also decreased Dory's prozac dosing from 5mg every other day to 2.5mg every third day since early April.  Next week, I'll step her down to 1.6mg and hope to stop it altogether in July.

That is terrific, so glad to read this! And I am really glad the cisapride worked after only 20 days; it could be she just needed some stimulation to "remind" her. Whatever the reason, this is great news!

 

[oneandahalfcats]

I just re-read tdonline's update and missed reading the mention of the 20 days.

  Very glad that cisapride was able to work for Dory.

 

[tdonline]

 And I am really glad the cisapride worked after only 20 days; it could be she just needed some stimulation to "remind" her.

Yes, that was exactly what I had in my mind when I went to the vet.  And for once, it worked as I had planned and hoped!

Dory is still on her every other day schedule.  This week I've stepped her down to a teeny tiny dosage of 1.6mg of prozac every 3rd day.  We'll go the rest of the month at this dosage and at that point, I may stop it altogether.  I'm not sure if it's worth stepping it down further to every 4th day.  But I can't cut the pill any more than 1.6mg.

 

[scorpgirl68]

Can I ask what low fiber diet you are feeding. I have a male cat who also dislikes pumpkin and has been having constipation issues for a couple months. Trying to get the right dose of Miralax with the wet food while also trying to make sure he is getting enough calories.

 

[scorpgirl68]

Does the SEB have a flavor, my cats seem to detect the smallest hint of change in their bowls.

 

[scorpgirl68]

May I ask what you were feeding your beloved feline? I read your comment about the clay possibly causing the constipation and it got me thinking that maybe the wet food I am feeding is causing constipation in one of my male felines. I have been feeding mine Natural Balance Indoor which has the following ingredients:

Chicken, Chicken Broth, Chicken Liver, Salmon, Oat Bran, Brown Rice Flour, Natural Flavor, Calcium Carbonate, Guar Gum, Cranberries, Dicalcium Phosphate, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Potassium Chloride, Salt, Taurine, Choline Chloride, Parsley, Carrageenan, Zinc Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Vitamin E Supplement, Copper Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Niacin Supplement, Sodium Selenite, Thiamine Mononitrate, Calcium Pantothenate, Calcium Iodate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Riboflavin, Vitamin A Supplement, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement.

I see no clay component, unless I am missing that. I also note that it contains Carrageenan and Guar Gum which both (disputably) cause constipation?

Frustrated and confused.

 

[scorpgirl68]

I'm trying to think back to when we introduced wet food and why exactly. I'm beginning to wonder if it's the canned and not the dry. Wondering if I should stop feeding the wet. Dilemmas abound. I just want what is best for my felines but maybe what is best is dry....

 

[scorpgirl68]

I feel your pain and frustration. One of my felines is dealing with constipation and I am having a trying time trying to find a "formula" that works with this poor fella. The other feline is finicky and underweight so feeding them is a chore. I hope that by the time I get to the end of this thread that your baby has found relief. Unfortunately my boy is going outside of his box on his, i.e. my, favorite places. The suggestion was given to me that I give my boy up but that is not going to happen. Good luck to us all.

 

[oneandahalfcats]

Hi Scorpgirl68 ...

 
Can I ask what low fiber diet you are feeding. I have a male cat who also dislikes pumpkin and has been having constipation issues for a couple months. Trying to get the right dose of Miralax with the wet food while also trying to make sure he is getting enough calories.

I am presently feeding a rotation of Nature's Variety Instinct canned, Hound & Gatos canned and some commercial raw. As my female doesn't care for NV that much, she gets a bit of Fancy Feast canned pate on occasion. Out of the majority of commercial canned, I find NV and H&G to be the lowest for carbs, and fiber fillers. I also feed a bit of Nature's Variety Duck and Rabbit dry food with contains some raw boost, at the end of the day.

How often is your kitty having a BM these days, versus before you switched him to wet canned? Some cats will produce less volume and go less frequently when being fed a wet canned diet. If a dry food contains a lot of corn, wheat and other types of carbs, this can produce a large volume of stool and cause more frequent BMs, which is good for regularity but can also be a sign that the nutrients of the food are not being absorbed.

Sufficient calories are important especially when it comes to feeding wet canned versus dry food as dry food contains far more calories than wet, which is one reason why many cats feel more satisfied with dry food. This is not to say that a cat can't be satisfied on wet canned, but it is important to ensure that a cat is getting what he/she needs according to their ideal weight, metabolism and activity level.

 
Does the SEB have a flavor, my cats seem to detect the smallest hint of change in their bowls.

SEB has a very slight sweet taste. The best way to introduce this is by making the syrup recipe and adding a small amount to feedings. My female Maggie, who is the one who will detect changes in food, will eat wet canned with SEB in it. When sourcing SEB, look for bulk powder that doesn't contain magnesium stearate, as this ingredient prevents gelling when making the syrup.

 
May I ask what you were feeding your beloved feline? I read your comment about the clay possibly causing the constipation and it got me thinking that maybe the wet food I am feeding is causing constipation in one of my male felines. I have been feeding mine Natural Balance Indoor which has the following ingredients:

Chicken, Chicken Broth, Chicken Liver, Salmon, Oat Bran, Brown Rice Flour, Natural Flavor, Calcium Carbonate, Guar Gum, Cranberries, Dicalcium Phosphate, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Potassium Chloride, Salt, Taurine, Choline Chloride, Parsley, Carrageenan, Zinc Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Vitamin E Supplement, Copper Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Niacin Supplement, Sodium Selenite, Thiamine Mononitrate, Calcium Pantothenate, Calcium Iodate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Riboflavin, Vitamin A Supplement, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement.

I see no clay component, unless I am missing that. I also note that it contains Carrageenan and Guar Gum which both (disputably) cause constipation?

Frustrated and confused.

Initially I thought the montmorillonite clay in NV was going to pose a problem for Max, but in my experience in feeding NV wet canned and dry, which both contain this ingredient, Max's BMs have remained consistent. In speaking with NV on a number of occasions, I learned that the reason for the clay in NV is two-fold. One, it is used to help bind the food in the absence of carageenan and guar gum that you find in other commercial brands. And two, as clay has detoxifying properties, it can help to absorb accumulations of toxins in the body.

In looking at the ingredients list you have posted, I don't see anything that would be considered truly bad. In looking online at the guaranteed analysis, this food contains 9% protein, 5% fat and 2% fiber, all of which are within reasonable amounts. 

 
I'm trying to think back to when we introduced wet food and why exactly. I'm beginning to wonder if it's the canned and not the dry. Wondering if I should stop feeding the wet. Dilemmas abound. I just want what is best for my felines but maybe what is best is dry....

I think wanting the best for our felines is the goal of many cat parents .. Case in point. I haven't mentioned this in my thread here as it seems like so long ago, but Max was fed Purina cat chow at one time. This was the food that the shelter had him on. When we adopted him along with Maggie, we continued feeding this, and for quite some time Max was as regular as can be in the BM department. I decided at one point that we could do better, and so we looked into a holistic food with better ingredients, but, this is where Max's problems with elimination began. After transitioning through different foods, including RC High Fibre prescription food that was recommended by one vet, we finally decided it was time to get off of exclusively dry food, and onto high protein wet canned. Discovering SEB and introducing this was the turning point for Max, when other things such as a course of cisapride, proved ineffective. Today Max is back to having normal and regular bowel movements. Not as regular as he once was perhaps in going every morning like clockwork, but normal for him. I attributed some of the change to the fact that he now gets mostly wet canned, which produce less volume stools and less frequent trips to the litter box.

Regarding wet food, I would recommend that you continue feeding some of this. Cats need a high protein diet and this traditionally comes from meat. As we can't be sure that they are getting sufficient amounts of this from dry, it is important that wet canned or homemade meat be a part of the diet. That said, depending on what you were feeding before, and how well your kitty was doing before switching to wet canned, it could be that he/she is missing out on something that is vital to keeping him regular. As mentioned above, some cats do well with some fiber in their diet, while others do not. There are different forms of fiber and so in your case, maybe it is just a matter of finding the right one. SEB is a form of fiber, but it doesn't create bulk like psyllium for instance. It is also effective in soothing the digestive tract if there is a problem with indigestion or too much acid. Pumpkin is fine as a source of soluble fiber to help prevent constipation if a cat enjoys this, but when a cat is constipated, in my experience it has little effect in turning things around. Laxatives can help to pull water into the colon to keep stools soft, but as far as helping with motility, I don't believe they are much of a contributing factor. I prefer to use food, plenty of moisture in the diet and supplementing with SEB and probiotics to manage constipation.

Speaking of probiotics, rather than looking to a diet change, I would recommend introducing a good probiotic as a first measure. It could be that the constipation is due to poor or impaired digestion. I use Natural Factors Double Strength probiotic with 10 billion CFUs (or active cultures). The higher the CFU the better. One other thing to start doing if your cat isn't a big water drinker, is to add water to wet food. This will help to hydrate the colon and in turn add moisture to stools.

Hope this helps.

 

[oneandahalfcats]

 
I feel your pain and frustration. One of my felines is dealing with constipation and I am having a trying time trying to find a "formula" that works with this poor fella. The other feline is finicky and underweight so feeding them is a chore. I hope that by the time I get to the end of this thread that your baby has found relief. Unfortunately my boy is going outside of his box on his, i.e. my, favorite places. The suggestion was given to me that I give my boy up but that is not going to happen. Good luck to us all.

Regarding the pooping outside of the litter box, if this is a recent occurrence, the cause is usually related to some change. Have you changed litter material recently? Litter box not cleaned enough? Depending on how many cats you have, is it possible that there are not enough litter boxes? Sometimes both constipation and elimination can be behavior related, so something to think about as you go through the process of elimination to address the constipation. 

You might want to post this particular question, in the Behavior forum, here : http://www.thecatsite.com/f/5/behavior

 

[scorpgirl68]

Thank you for your responses. Zuri is my constipated boy and Brody is my finicky/thin boy.

Prior to the wet food Zuri was going every day or other day with large volumes. It had been months of him being on the canned food, last July, before me seeing an issue with constipation. At first it was once or twice in a 6 month period but since April of this year it has been constant to where he is storing his BM and is only going every 3 or so days. And when he goes it is of large volume, size and amount. Right now he is getting 1/4 6oz can in the a.m. with a tablespoon of Merrick Bistro dry which is corn, wheat and soy free. He gets another 1/4 6oz can when I get home from work and a tablespoon or so of kibble before I go to bed. At this point I would rather have the regularity and worry about the nutrition absorption later, which got me thinking of trying a "lesser" kibble with grain but still feeding premium wet.

I'm not sure yet about trying the SEB but will keep the ingredients in mind. I will also consider probiotics if I can't get a handle on this food situation.

I have tried the Natures' Variety but both cats turn up their noses. I've tried several other canned that had the same response. They both eat the Natural Balance Indoor and the thin one, Brody, is a very finicky eater so I don't want to switch brands/flavors yet/until I have to if it is causing the constipation. I am almost thinking of trying Fancy Feast as I read the classic is not a bad choice. Idk. I also have the same problem with dry food, trying to find one that both will eat. Brody gets the same wet but with Evo dry because that seems to be the only food he won't spit out. Ugh!

I will mention that I have had other felines that got fed mostly dry Purina until they reached 15 or so and started early stages of renal failure. Those two lasted with healthy and happy lives to the ages of 21 and 19 so I wonder if I "over thought" the feeding process with these new orphans.

Regarding pooping outside of the box. I keep very tidy litter boxes, have kept the same litter and have multiple boxes (4) for the two cats. I believe with Zuri it is an issue with his constipation as he pees in at least two of the boxes, thankfully. I recently got two new boxes with a different type clump litter that Zuri has peed in but has not yet used for BM.

I will continue to adjust the amount of Miralax, I must have given him too much because he had diarrhea the other day. I will be making a follow up appointment with our vet soon to do further assessment.

Thanks again. I am at my wit's end but love my boys so...

 

[oneandahalfcats]

Thanks for providing a bit more detail. Based on your description of the amount of food, my immediate impression is that this is not enough food. On average, a 6.0 ounce can of food can be anywhere from 160-220 calories or so, depending on the ingredients. In checking the NB website again, the Natural Balance is 215 calories per 6 ounce can. You are serving what amounts to half a can which works out to a little over 100 calories for the day, which is not enough. If Zuri likes the Natural Balance, I would give him 1/2 a can to start the day, and a little more when you get home. You can continue with a bit of the dry food which is a minimal amount, and see if this can make a difference. I would also add some water to his wet food.

If you can post the weight and activity level, of both your cats, I can get a more approximate idea of caloric requirements.

 

[scorpgirl68]

 
Thanks for providing a bit more detail. Based on your description of the amount of food, my immediate impression is that this is not enough food. On average, a 6.0 ounce can of food can be anywhere from 160-220 calories or so, depending on the ingredients. In checking the NB website again, the Natural Balance is 215 calories per 6 ounce can. You are serving what amounts to half a can which works out to a little over 100 calories for the day, which is not enough. If Zuri likes the Natural Balance, I would give him 1/2 a can to start the day, and a little more when you get home. You can continue with a bit of the dry food which is a minimal amount, and see if this can make a difference. I would also add some water to his wet food.

If you can post the weight and activity level, of both your cats, I can get a more approximate idea of caloric requirements.

This is the frustrating part of feeding a wet food diet, neither wants to eat that much and there aren't that many calories in a can. Prior to feeding mostly wet food we were giving them plenty of dry to make up the difference. I try to give an extra small 3oz can before bed and sometimes they will eat it, sometimes not. That would make 150ish per and with the added dry kibble that makes up the difference?  Both are inside cats so activity level is at a minimum. After feeding they chase each other around for a several minutes and a couple times throughout the day. Zuri is 13.5lbs (5yrs) and loves to play. I spend 20+ minutes a day playing with his favorite toy that he jumps runs and hides with. Brody is 7.8lbs or so (6yrs) and I would like to see him at 8. He doesn't like to play as much but I will try to get him to chase a toy around for at least 5 min per day.

Thank you for taking the time with me. I'm kind of going it alone as the sig other wants to start feeding him Iams or other dry kibble.

.

 

[scorpgirl68]

Another thing is calorie amounts vary site to site. Some say 15 per lb and others say 35 per lb?

 

[oneandahalfcats]

 
This is the frustrating part of feeding a wet food diet, neither wants to eat that much and there aren't that many calories in a can. Prior to feeding mostly wet food we were giving them plenty of dry to make up the difference. I try to give an extra small 3oz can before bed and sometimes they will eat it, sometimes not. That would make 150ish per and with the added dry kibble that makes up the difference?  Both are inside cats so activity level is at a minimum. After feeding they chase each other around for a several minutes and a couple times throughout the day. Zuri is 13.5lbs (5yrs) and loves to play. I spend 20+ minutes a day playing with his favorite toy that he jumps runs and hides with. Brody is 7.8lbs or so (6yrs) and I would like to see him at 8. He doesn't like to play as much but I will try to get him to chase a toy around for at least 5 min per day.

Thank you for taking the time with me. I'm kind of going it alone as the sig other wants to start feeding him Iams or other dry kibble.

.

I understand. My female Maggie would like nothing better than to eat NV dry all day long, but I want her to have the benefit of meat protein as a base. In her case, as mentioned, I feed her a bit of Fancy Feast pates, which are grain-free and do not contain carageenan, along with the Hound and Gatos. The FF Classics are the pates for you folks in the states.

If you are going to purchase another type of dry food, then I would suggest taking a look at Orijen Regional Red or Orijen Cat and Kitten. Both of these are good, high quality dry foods that contains several (7+) sources of meat as first ingredients. For this reason, you don't have to feed a lot of it of this food. It would be a better choice than IAMS.

http://www.orijen.ca/products/cat-food/dry-cat-food/regional-red/

http://www.orijen.ca/products/cat-food/dry-cat-food/cat-kitten/

Regarding your kitties weight, if the 13.5 pounds is his ideal, he needs at least 200 calories per day, which is based on 15 calories per pound. Brody at 7 pounds is underweight as you have mentioned, so I would give him what he is willing to eat.

 

[scorpgirl68]

 
I understand. My female Maggie would like nothing better than to eat NV dry all day long, but I want her to have the benefit of meat protein as a base. In her case, as mentioned, I feed her a bit of Fancy Feast pates, which are grain-free and do not contain carageenan, along with the Hound and Gatos. The FF Classics are the pates for you folks in the states.

If you are going to purchase another type of dry food, then I would suggest taking a look at Orijen Regional Red or Orijen Cat and Kitten. Both of these are good, high quality dry foods that contains several (7+) sources of meat as first ingredients. For this reason, you don't have to feed a lot of it of this food. It would be a better choice than IAMS.

http://www.orijen.ca/products/cat-food/dry-cat-food/regional-red/

http://www.orijen.ca/products/cat-food/dry-cat-food/cat-kitten/

Regarding your kitties weight, if the 13.5 pounds is his ideal, he needs at least 200 calories per day, which is based on 15 calories per pound. Brody at 7 pounds is underweight as you have mentioned, so I would give him what he is willing to eat.

I think I will look into Fancy Feast as that is what I used to feed my seniors in their last years. I would never feed Iams  Thank you for the link to the Orijen. There are a couple brands that are made locally that I might give a second try. I haven't gone the extra fiber route but think I may give that a whirl also.

 

[tdonline]

scorpgirl,

Are you feeding grain-free dry food?  My cats became constipated when I decided to go grain-free everything shortly after I adopted them. When I backed off on grain-free kibble, they became regular again.  That was about 5 years ago.  Their recent issues with constipation were related to medication and stress.

Their daily diet is 4-5 ounces of canned food along with 1-2 tablespoons of kibble.  I feed California Natural limited ingredients chicken and rice.  My cats are 10.5-11.5 pounds.

 

[scorpgirl68]

 
scorpgirl,

Are you feeding grain-free dry food?  My cats became constipated when I decided to go grain-free everything shortly after I adopted them. When I backed off on grain-free kibble, they became regular again.  That was about 5 years ago.  Their recent issues with constipation were related to medication and stress.

Their daily diet is 4-5 ounces of canned food along with 1-2 tablespoons of kibble.  I feed California Natural limited ingredients chicken and rice.  My cats are 10.5-11.5 pounds.

That is interesting and something I have thought about. They are on a no corn, soy or wheat kibble. Evo for the thin one and Merrick for the constipated one. I was beginning to think it was the wet food but I might be the grain-free. I made up my mind today that I was going to look for a less "free" kibble and see what happens. Do you have any recommendations for another dry, in case the local stores don't carry California Natural or the boys won't eat it? Unfortunately the thin one turns his nose up to anything but the Evo dry. Thank you for the response. I have been driving myself out of my mind!

 

[tdonline]

Sorry, my girls have been on California Natural chicken and rice forever so I can't say I've had to work hard at finding the right kibble.  They love kibble and will eat anything resembling dry food. I've picked up free sample sizes of other dry food and they're happy to eat them too.  I use the sample size packets as "treats."  I'm not sure about the big box stores but usually the smaller chains or mom and pop pet stores will have samples available.  I usually pick up a couple when I buy CN from the local pet store.  They always have Innova and Call of the Wild sample packets.   You could also try writing the brands and asking them to mail you samples too.  Or sending you coupons to buy the smaller sizes.  They are more than happy to convince you to try their product.  

Ironically, I think Evo grain free was what I was feeding my cats when constipation hit.  I only settled on CN because I wanted a limited ingredient formula as my girls were throwing up a lot initially.  It was basically CN or Natural Balance in terms of limited ingredients.  Plus the carbs in these two foods are pea and rice and I wanted to avoid corn/wheat.  When NB is on sale at Petco, I'll buy a bag very occasionally.  

Just to be clear, canned grain free food doesn't cause constipation in my cats.  Just the kibble.

 

[scorpgirl68]

Thanks again. I will be stopping tonight to check out some brands and find samples. Hopefully one will satisfy them both!