Sisters Fighting - At Wits End!!!

tallyamy

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I'm sorry if this is a repeat of other threads here, but I have read just about every fourm post and article on the internet about this subject, and still don't know what to do!  Also, sorry for the length..... this is half looking for help, and half venting.

I have two female cats - litter sisters - that have been together since the day they were born.  I adopted them both when they were around six weeks old.  They are both fixed, and both indoor cats.  They are now six years old, and both are very docile, friendly, loving cats. 

It started about 2-3 weeks ago when they were sitting on the screened in back porch, and a stray tomcat was sitting in the yard next door.  As far as I know that cat didn't do anything (that I could see at least), but something spooked my cats and they got into a *TREMENDOUS* fight.  It was one of those cartoon fights with the big ball of dust that just keeps rolling.  The fight went all the way inside the house, up on to the window sill, bounced off the window, and then into the kitchen.  I was panicking, because they've never done this before - at least not that I have seen.  I should have handled it better, but the first break in the action I got in between them.  I ended up getting bit (it's okay now), but the cats were separated.  I closed the one (the dominant and calm one), and went to assess the damage.

There was a dime sized blood drop on the floor, but I don't know if it was from me or the cats.  Not important. 

This happend on a Thursday night.  I checked on the cat in the kitchen, and she let out a tremendous howl that I think the whole neighborhood could hear.  So, I gave her space, and closed myself in the second bedroom.  Just a side note here, this cat is a chronic licker, and has no fur on the lower half of her belly.  And, I don't know if this is important to the big picture, but this cat has always been a drama queen - howled so loud when she got her baby shots that the whole vet office looked up.

After an hour, I checked on the cat in the bedroom.  She was spooked, but didn't hiss at me, and came out from under the bed to get some treats.  I went to check on the cat in the kitchen, and I was greeted with the same eardrum shattering howl.  And this time she flailed around recklessly at the site of me.  So, I backed off.

I left her alone for another five hours.  When I checked on her again, she had moved from her corner in the kitchen to the living room.  When she saw me she again started flailing around, bouncing off the wall and the couch, howling all the time.  I gave up for the night, and went to bed.  The cat in the bedroom was still spooked, but did eventually get up on the bed with me and fall asleep.

The next morning, I opened the bedroom door.  The kitchen cat was sitting at the end of the hall, and hissed and ran when she saw me.  I went to the store, and got some disposable litter boxes and plastic things of cat food.  When I got back, the kitchen cat again saw me, hissed, growled, and ran to hide in the closet.  So, I left them alone while I went to the doctor's to get some antibiotics.  When I got back, same behavior from the kitchen cat.  Problem is, I needed my scrubs from the closet for school.

I opened the closet door and the cat again, starts flailing around bouncing off the washer and dryer.  In tears I called my dad.  He came over, opened up the closet door, and the cat was spooked, but fine.  No hiss, no growl, no flailing.

After school I quietly sat down on the couch to study.  After an hour or so kitchen cat came out of the closet and just sat there staring at me.  Then she slowly came up and sniffed me.  I didn't pay her attention, and didn't talk.  She then jumped up on my lap, stood on my chest, and sniffed my face.  I was scared my face was going to get ripped off, but it didn't happen.  She walked away, and I put her favorite blanket down on the couch and said "Here's your blanket".  She hissed, growled, and ran back to the closet.

On Sunday, they both seemed to be calm enough, and both were letting me pat and cuddle them, so I reintroduced them.  Bedroom cat came out, they both walked around tentatively, sniffed each other, and seemed to be fine.  I put down a bowl of wet food (their treat), and they ate, and all was well.

For the next two weeks, there seemed to be no problems.  Both kept separate, but a few times they were lying next to each other on the bed.  They normally get along.  Both sometimes cuddle with each other, lie together, eat right next to each other.  When I am on the couch knitting I will have one on my lap, and the other right next to me.

I noticed that kitchen cat has some new stress-lick marks, and that it has also spread from her belly to the insides of her lower legs.  She also seems to have a fresh bite mark on the back of her neck.  I think this is from bedroom cat trying to show dominance.

Fast foward two weeks.  Friday night, I hear the same kind of dust-ball fight from the living room.  I go out there, and they are going at it.  When it broke I stepped between them, and got my toes torn up in the process.  This time kitchen cat ran to the spare bedroom.  I closed the door.  Bedroom cat is hissing at me.  I retreat to my bedroom to give them space.  After a half hour bedroom cat is fine with me again.  It was dinner time, so I fed her, and put a bowl of food in the spare bedroom for kitchen cat.  She came out and ate it.  Bedroom cat retreated to my bedroom, and I closed her in there.  Kitchen cat was still in spare bedroom, but had retreated to the corner.  I checked on her, and got a loud howl - although not as loud as the first fight incident.  After about an hour, she was fine.  Rubbing up against me, purring, playing.

I kept them separated for the night.  Saturday afternoon (last night) I reintroduced them.  They seemed fine.  There was a pooping outside the litterbox incident, but I don't know which cat did that.  One cat was lying in the corner of the couch, and the other was sitting on top of it at the opposite end.  I laid down on the couch, and bedroom cat climbed down onto my lap.  Then she got up, went over to lick kitchen cat, and a fight almost broke out again.  I moved bedroom cat off the couch, but there was still a stand off.  Growling, hissing, posturing.  Without them seeing it was me, I sprayed water on both of them.  Bedroom cat backed off, and I coaxed her into the bedroom where I kept them separated.  That night I spent time playing with both of them to the point of exhaustion for all of us.

This morning, bedroom cat was scratching to get out, and kitchen cat was scratching to get in.  I kept them separated until I made sure they were both calm.  Kitchen cat ate, then went to her corner and laid down.  I thought this was a good time to let bedroom cat out. 

When I did, bedroom cat sniffed around for kitchen cat.  Saw her in the corner, and walked up to her.  I coaxed bedroom cat out to the other room.  Kitchen cat went into my bedroom.  Bedroom cat followed her.  Again, hissing, gowling, posturing.  I closed kitchen cat in the bedroom.  Bedroom cat is sitting outside the door, not making any noise, but watching.

<sigh>  I just don't know what to do.  I am sure this is a run for alpha female - even though I keep telling them that *I* am the alpha-female of the house.  I've read some posts that say let them fight it out - which the woman in me is going to have a hard time doing - and some that say keep them separated.  My house is small, and there isn't really any way to separate them without confining one to a single room.  Right now the plan is to keep them separated and call the vet tomorrow, and maybe take kitchen cat in to make sure she is not sick. 

Any advice would be much appreaciated.  Maybe I am making a mountain out of a mole hill, but I am at the end of my rope here.  Eventually they will have to be alone together, but the paranoid part of me keeps picturing coming home to school to find a severely injured cat - and I am a po' college kid that can't afford that.

If anything, thank you for letting me vent.  Sorry for all the details, but I hope they might help clue someone in on something.  I don't want to have to get rid of one, because I have no idea how to choose.  Neither cat is really doing anything wrong.
 
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tallyamy

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Cats still separated last night.  Due to the circumstances of the last stand off, kitchen cat is in the bedroom.  She is the victim, but has not been the one separated in the bedroom before.  Now bedroom cat sits in front of the closed door, staring.  She can be distracted with food and play, but when she is done, she goes right back to sitting in front of the door. 

She's not making any noise, and doesn't appear agitated.  I can't tell if she is sitting there because she wants to "get" the other cat, or if it is because she misses her.
 

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This is called displaced aggression. I am really sorry you and your two cats who used to be such good friends are going through this. I would install some feliway plug in diffusers, get some Rescue Remedy, and continue to treat them as new introductions. Sounds like you are doing everything right, staying calm and keeping them separate for now.

I had a male cat who had serious problems with displaced aggression when he saw another cat on the street from the window. I used to have to cover him with a blanket and shut him in the bathroom. Fortunately his aggression, though it happened often, didn't linger, until the next trigger episode.

I'm sure you will get more help than this, but I do strongly recommend the feliway and rescue remedy.

PS when you can safely do so, feel each cat all over to make sure there are no injuries. One of them could have an abscess from the fighting which would need veterinary treatment.
 
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I'm not sure, but I think this is a form of redirected aggression? Your cats couldn't get to the stray outside, so they did the next best thing.....they went after each other. It's a horrible thing to watch; my cats have done it, too, when there was a cat outside in our back yard (yet another reason for people to keep their cats indoors....or at least away from their neighbor's property). It's happened to us around 3:00 in the morning when the neighborhood cats are on the prowl.....nothing is as terrible as listening to one of our cats screaming for all she's worth in the middle of the night. Then she'll turn on whichever cat is closest and it's an all-out war with them and they tumble throughout the kitchen. It's just terrible. And it takes a long time to get everybody in the house calmed back down. 

By all means, yes, take your drama queen to the vet, just to make sure she is OK. (You might want to ask the vet about the over-licking, too; there are meds that will reduce over-licking problems, but I don't know how expensive they are.)

I think you're doing all the right things as far as separating the two of them. Unfortunately, I don't have any extra advice to give you. If you have to, keep them separated during the day when you're at class. Maybe you could just keep them separated for awhile and not try any re-introductions for the time being....that's going to be difficult, but it might be an option for you. And then slowly reintroduce them at a later date?

I hope somebody else can help you more than I did. It really is horrible.

ETA: Thanks, Otto.....I couldn't remember the exact term!
 
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otto

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I think both terms are applicable, though some articles I've read say they are different things. I agree that the girl who is licking herself bald should see the vet, forgot to comment on that.

Also forgot to welcome you, TallyAmy, to TCS. :wavey:
 
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tallyamy

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Thank you all, I feel a lot better about what I am doing now :) 

I've been able to inspect both cats, as they are quite affectionate now that they are separate.  Luckily neither seems to have any wounds from the fight. 

Unfortunately, the Feliaway dispenser is out of my budget at this time, but I am going to get the spray and use it on the "problem spots".... there are a few places where kitchen cat (Pickles) hid after the initial fight that bedroom (Sissy (as in "sister", lol this cat is most certainly not a sissy!)) cat won't leave alone.... sniffs with the open mouth thing.  Hopefully spraying these spots will hide the smell.  Sissy is also getting natural pet calming treats, which do seem to mellow her out a bit.  Pickles won't eat them, though.  

What is your opinion on swapping which cat has to stay in the bedroom every couple of days?  It's a small house, so that is the only option for keeping them separate.  And, they are both fine with being in the bedroom, as long as I am with them.  It's just me, so it might be logistically hard to swap them with no contact. but I think it can be done with a distraction of wet food in the kitchen.

Thank you all again, I feel relieved now, and I know my stress level decreasing is going to help their stress level, too!


Pickles, helping me study :)


Sissy, who loves being a knitters cat :)
 
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tallyamy

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Oh, and one more thing that I thought of.  If I start using the Feliaway, will I have to keep using it?  Or will I eventually be able to "wean" them off of it?
 
 

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Your furkids are beautiful!

No, you shouldn't have to continue with the Feliway once the kids are calmed back down....I would think they could be weaned off.

BTW, you might want to check out the Feliway collars, too. I think there's a store brand type collar on the market that acts like Feliway, but isn't quite as expensive.
 
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tallyamy

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Aw, thank you!  And, thank you all for your advice (and letting me vent)!

There's been a bit of progress.  As per the vet's advice, the littler box has been moved back to it's original location (had no clue that could be such a cat issue), which caused an immediate change in Sissy's behavior.  I also sprayed the "problem spots" with some urine odor removing spray, so we will see if that stops the smelling with the mouth open thing.

I've changed the cats places so one doesn't claim the bedroom as "theirs".... or more importantly, the rest of the house.  Since it's a small house and it's just me, there had to be some shutting in the bathroom while it was done, but minimal fuss from either cat.  Each walked around carefully to make sure the other wasn't there, but that stopped real quick.  Pickles was lying on my nice bathrobe while she was in there, and now Sissy is lying on it. 

Tonight they had their dinner at their regularly scheduled time (something else I inadvertently disrupted), one on each side of the closed door.  No growls and everyone ate in peace, including me.  Tomorrow after class I am going to try letting them look at and smell each other through a cracked door.  Keeping all fingers and paws crossed that there will be a good reaction, and I won't get my foot ran over by a fearful tubby cat..... lol my toes are still bruised and cut from Saturday! 

As my Grandma always said, "This too shall pass" :)
 
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tallyamy

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The cats have been sniffing each other through a crack in the door, and have seen each other with a screen in between them.  This morning I let Pickles out, and they both ate their breakfast in the kitchen together.  Unfortunately, the lawn guys started working next door, and all the banging and whirring made the cats tense up.  I chickened out and moved Pickles back to the bedroom.

At this point I think they are ready for reintroduction, but I don't think I am :(  I'm sure they are picking up on my nervousness, too.

At what point do you let the two duke it out should the fighting keep on?
 
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tallyamy

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There's been quite a bit of regression.

After eating breakfast near each other in the same room on Thursday, I tried the dog crate trick.  Sissy was in the crate in the living room, and Pickles came out, both sniffed through the crate with no problems.  I fed Sissy treats in the crate.  Pickles won't eat treats, so I kept patting her, all the time telling each of them that they were "good girls".  This went on for about a half hour.  I had to get ready for school, and put Pickles in the spare bedroom so I could let Sissy out of the crate and put her into my bedroom.

Pickles smelled Sissy through the door, and let out this god awful hiss and deep nasty growl and howl through the door.  She turned around and looked at me with the fearful look in her eye like she had immediately after the initial incident.  My heart started pounding and I was afraid I was going to be attacked just a few hours before I had to head to school.  I opened the closet door (they are never allowed in there, it is the "catch-all" closet), and that distracted her.  I left the room to go get ready, and when I came back she was fine.

That night their dinner was delayed by several hours, but they did eat with the door cracked between them with no growls or hissing.  However, the cats usually raise their butt and purr when I pet them when they are eating (which is only a stroke or two), but neither has responded this way when they are eating facing each other.

So, I let them chill.  I am switching rooms every couple of nights, so each can get re-used to the others smell, and doesn't claim one room as "theirs".  Unfortunately, Sissy seems to have claimed the bedroom as hers, and no longer tries to get out when I come in.

This morning, I let them sniff each other through a crack in the door, which they did with no problems.  Today is the switching day.  I threw the catnip ball into the crate, and put Pickles in there.  I let Sissy out of her room, she walked around the rest of the house very gingerly, looking around every corner - but, her tail was up.

Eventually, she came into the room where the crate was.  Well, almost did.  Still several feet away, she stopped dead in her tracks staring at Pickles.  Both of them had the hair standing up on the back of their necks, and tails puffed up.  Maybe this is bad on my part, but I really need to study for a test and can't have the stress of two fighting cats disrupt me, and separated them again.

Pickles is going to the vet next week to get checked out.  I have the feeling that the epic fights I saw them get into twice had been going on for a long time before I saw two of them.  It's not fair to any of us to keep separating the cats.  I don't know if it's something that can ever be fixed.  I'm going to ask the vet his opinion.

I hate to do it, and it breaks my heart, but I have considered finding a new home for one of them.  One of my classmates is looking for a cat/kitten.  Like I said, it breaks my heart, but if I did have to give one away, I would feel much better with it going to her.  I know she would have a wonderful home with probably the only other person who could love the cat as much as I do.  And I could visit.  We could do a trial visit, too.  Just to make sure that she and the cat get along and are happy.  I'm sorry, I'm bawling my eyes out now, and I don't know where else to vent.
 

otto

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:hugs: :hugs: :hugs:

Have you installed the feliway plug in diffusers? Are you using rescue remedy?

Don't make any decisions until after the vet trip.

I wonder if you could bring them both. This will counteract the problem of one smelling like vet and the other not, when you bring Pickles home. With both smelling the same when they get home, it might just....help.

Ask your friend if she minds waiting a few more weeks, before looking elsewhere.
 
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tallyamy

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I'm definitely not going to do anything until after the vet.  And, I hope it didn't sound like this was a decision I was making lightly.  Definitely vet first.  And I do want to see them interacting together before making the decision.  I am thinking of having a disinterested party (ie Dad, lol) come over and supervise their visit, so I don't do anything to influence their behavior either way.  Neither cat seems to be the least bit concerned about being separated from the other.

I haven't asked my friend if she will take my cat yet, and probably won't until rehoming Sissy is the final option.  She is coming over to meet the cats this week, just so I can see how they get along - and she also wants to see if she likes actual cats as much as she likes the idea of having one. 

Feilaway is unfortunately out of my budget right now, especially if it is something that I will need to use consistently.   Has anyone had any luck with the collars?
 
 

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No, no I did not think you are taking this lightly, it is obvious how much you love your girls and want to make things better.

You can get feliway relatively cheaply on sites like amazon.com and hopefully you wouldn't have to use it forever. Rescue Remedy may be a more cost effective option for you, though I am a confirmed believer in feliway plug in diffusers, but have never had a problem as severe as yours.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...,k:rescue+remedy+for+cats&tag=&tag=thecatsite

I have never used the collars, but there is a review right in this forum about a bad experience with one of those collars, though not the feliway brand, I don't think. I think it was Sentry brand, and I wouldn't recommend ANY Sentry product ever. Perhaps the feliway collars are better.

Here is a list of reviews on calming aids, in this forum (it may take a minute for the page to completely load)

http://www.thecatsite.com/products/category/calming-aids
 
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tallyamy

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We are unfortunately still having problems.  After a visit to the vet, she is as baffled as everyone else is.

Something strange I've noticed..... when the cats look outside, they are completely spooked, even if the stray cats aren't there.  Is this normal after a huge misdirected aggression episode?  It's been about five weeks since it's happened.  Today is Sissy's day to run around the house while the other cat is in the bedroom.  She jumped up in the kitchen window - the only one that isn't blocked with a curtain, and sat there staring at nothing outside.  I went outside to make sure that there were no stray cats in the bushes, but, no, there was nothing.  She wouldn't stop staring when I shook the bag of treats, or when I opened a can of cat food.  Is this something that will pass?  Or will I always need to keep my windows blocked?  I'm tyring to find her another home, and am now afraid that she will continue this behavior there, and direct aggression towards her new owner.
 

otto

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I thought of you just the other day, but couldn't remember what thread it was, when I was reading about these collars:

http://www.calmingcollars.com/index.html

I can't recommend them or not recommend them, having never used them, but it might be something worth looking into.
 
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tallyamy

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Thanks!  :)  I have one on Sissy now.  When I took her to the vet she was still shook up from the fight and being shut in a new room, and the poor thing has just been a wreck.  When she is in the room I have it near her, because the thing smells pretty strong.  She has calmed down very much since buying it, but I can't tell if it is because of the collar or not.  She keeps licking her neck when wearing it, which I hope doesn't mean that she is allergic to it. 

I do put it around her neck when she goes out into the living room, but did not have it on with the window incident today.  I think I will give her about an hour to calm down, and try again with the collar this time. 
 
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Just an update for all.

I did introduce the cats to each other one last time, after being separated for almost two weeks.  They had been eating with a crack in the door between them with no problems.  Also sniffing each other through the same crack, and walking around a neutral room while one was in a dog crate.  I even put chicken wire up over the door and left it open, all of this went on without even the slightest hiss.

When I reintroduced them, the second they saw each other, they got into the most violent fight to date.  To make it worse, the fight moved straight under my bed.  Howling, screaming, spitting, growling, all with me having a dang heart attack over it.  This kept up for a good 15-20 minutes.  Finally one cat came out from under the bed, I threw a blanket over her, and missed by a mile.  However, it got her out of the room.  So, they were separated, and I went to go calm myself down. 

This time the drama queen took only about an hour to calm down and let me be around her.  My dad came over minutes after the fight, and the same behavior with her, he was able to talk to her and pet her, but she spooked when she heard my voice.

Sissy, unfortunately, never got over the fight.  Two days later I took her to the vet.  I don't think that helped any.

I tried to switch the cats, so one could sleep in the bedroom with me for two nights while the other roamed the house.  This time neither would have a thing to do with it.  Being the softie I am I got out the inflatable bed and slept in the computer room where Sissy was every other night.

Sissy began to severely withdraw.  Every little noise made her jump.  On her days to roam the house she would sit in the same spot on the couch in the hovercat position, eyes wide, tail under her belly.  She never lost her appetite, but she would not play, purr, or move.  Every now and then she would climb on my lap and let me pet her.  But, after a few seconds she jumped up and went back to hover cat.  She kept staring at the door that her sister was behind.

The vet was so kind to me and Sissy.  Unfortunately, she said that with the level of aggression I described that not even Feliaway would work, especially after telling her about the results with the collar.

While all of this is going on, Pickles was getting more stressed and angry - hissing at me, not being near me.

I thought Sissy was the bullied one, and as much as it hurt, I took her back to the humane society (a no-kill shelter) where she was adopted.  I had been looking for a new home for about a week with no success.  I thought this was the best option.  I cried every night.  Through all of this I had lost 16 pounds from the stress.  It was so hard to choose one, I love them both so much.  I chose Sissy because she is the more adoptable, calmer, and less destructive of the two.  She was the one that was terror-striken, and I wanted to get her out of the environment that scared her.   I still feel that I was playing favorites, even though I know I would be feeling the exact same way if it was the other cat that went back.

Immediately, Pickles was better.  She was happier, walking around with her tail in the air, and not underfoot every second.  Now she shows behaviors that I haven't seen since she was a kitten.  She isn't scarfing all her food down the second it is placed in front of her.  She is playing with vigor and gusto, and bringing me toys.  The acne on her chin is starting to clear up, and I've noticed that she doesn't lick her belly and legs as much any more.

Three days later I called the humane society to check up on Sissy.  She hadn't been eating, drinking, or using the litterbox.  Whenever one of the workers tried to reach in her cage, she screamed, scratched them, and tried to bite them.  The only aggression towards people that I have seen from Sissy (well, heard about) was when she hissed at my friend that was feeding them while I was away from a week.  I couldn't believe this.  I went into panic mode again. 

I called some of the local cat rescue groups around town.  By now I have spent all of my savings (poor college kid) on trying to fix things, and I was unfortunately at the point where as much as it killed me, I was going to have to walk away from this. 

One of the rescue groups called me back.  She would take Sissy!  Talking to her she had rehabilitated and adopted out a cat with almost the exact same problem not too long ago.  Sissy would be in a house with other cats, but would have her own room.  She would take Sissy to the vet, get her better, and temporairly get her on anxeity meds need be.  All the vets around town speak very highly of this woman, and I was so glad she was willing to help.

I rushed down to the humane society and picked Sissy up.  She was dehydrated, and again aggressive with the workers.  She calmed down the instant she got in the car.  By the time we drove back to town, she had stopped meowing, and her pupils were no longer dilated.  She let me pet her in her crate, and was rubbing up against me.  She was even purring, but not out of fear.  I met the woman from the rescue group and her daughter, they were going to take her that same day.  She let both of them pet her in the cage, and at one point even laid down in the back of the crate exposing her belly to them in a friendly way.  It was like she knew she where she was going, and that she was going to have a better life now.

While I am still immensely sad and mourning, these feelings are evened out by the happiness I feel for her.  I didn't even cry when I left her with the rescue group, and that night I had a hard time falling asleep - but this time because I was so happy and excited for her new life.  I took the vets passed on advice:  "If you truly love someone, you have to set them free".  I have received so much help from the local animal community here, and have met some truly wonderful people.  I am helping ease the pain by working on cat and dog blankets for the groups and people that have helped me out.

Thank you all for your advice and support during my crisis.  I do consider myself quite lucky that this is the most amount of drama in my life right now, but it still sucked.  I can't thank you enough for helping me get through this!!

Hugs and best wishes!!!
 
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