Sick Cat, Unknown Reason

[arouetta]

So the regulars here are familiar with Shadow. Summary, she's 18 years old and probably has mammary cancer. She hasn't been really eating lately and I was sure she lost some weight and she's shown breathing problems, so we went to the vet today.

The reason for her acting ill is almost certainly not the cancer spreading. I was really surprised, that's what I had steeled myself for.

So she's lost 4 pounds and she's dehydrated (the vet said something about 5%). She purred at the vet's office, never before, which the vet said was her self-soothing. The cat that I could never get into a carrier without a heroic struggle spent every second she could in that carrier, though the vet said it could possibly because I didn't grab her carrier, I grabbed Montressor's carrier, and the smell might have made her feel more secure. The cat that no one could get a pill down swallowed the pill in just a couple of seconds.

The possibilities seemed endless. The dehydration despite her drinking could be kidneys or diabetes. The weight loss could be liver or thyroid. There could be an infection. The dry heaves could actually be an asthma attack. The gasping, panting breathing could be a heart condition.

Since I cannot cut her claws I had no idea what her feet looked like until I was rolling her over at the vet's. They are really dry with deep ridges. The vet said that was mostly the dehydration, though there was a skin issue going on as well. I can use eczema cream, and the vet said getting baby eczema cream would be safer if she licks her paws.

I okayed a blood test that would basically be a metabolic panel. They left me alone while waiting for the results. There's definitely something going on with her liver, but it's not that big of a deal. The vet wasn't sure if whatever's going on with the liver is what is making her feel bad and triggering her symptoms, or if whatever's going on in general has suppressed her appetite to the point where we're at the beginning of fatty liver.

Because they left me alone while running the blood test, I had a chance to start thinking instead of reacting. Is finding out what's wrong really going to change her fate? I asked the vet for an unbiased, unvarnished opinion and she said the additional testing wasn't worth it. So we're simply treating symptoms.

The vet said to take pictures of her face. She said a cat's face changes as the end draws near, that taking pictures weekly and comparing them to each other will help when making the choice. I had a picture on my phone from February, she looked at it and said that Shadow was a completely different cat then.

Can anyone tell me anything about these treatments?

• Subcutaneous fluids, 200cc every other day.
• Remeron, 15mg tablet, ¼ tablet a day.
• Buprenex, oral syringe, .15ml, every 8-12 hours.
• Vitamin B-12 injection, if it works they'll give me some to give at home.

The vet said pretty much to give her anything we can get down her. Not just wet food, but baby food, canned tuna, grill a chicken breast, bake a fish fillet, anything pretty much that's meat. I asked about taurine, and I was told that's only a concern after 6-12 months. Shadow has stopped eating treats, she will approach if she hears the bag being opened and then ignores the treats. What are some ideas for foods to get down her? Canned food brands? Pate vs cuts in gravy? Raw food? If raw food, does the stuff in the dog aisle with veggies in it also okay for cats? Human food recipes that are cat safe?

The vet okayed potato chips. She said pretty much make Shadow a happy kitty.

I'm kinda numb right now.

 

[arouetta]

I took a picture like the vet said. Maybe it's because I have problems with facial recognition (somewhat face blind) but I don't see the difference the vet saw. The fur yes, the fur is much more unkempt. But the actual face, I don't see a difference. Does anyone else see it?

February

Today

 

[mewcatmew]

Did they do a test for pancreatitis? You could ask about anti-nausea medications like cerenia or pepcid. There are also appetite stimulants your vet can give you as well.

 

[arouetta]

It was a metabolic panel, I don't know what all it tested. It was the picture of normal, except for half the stuff related to the liver, and those were only somewhat low/high. The other half the stuff related to the liver were normal. The vet didn't say a word about possible pancreatitis. She told me the Remeron and B-12 stimulate the appetite, the Buprenex was a pain medicine.

 

[mewcatmew]

The B-12 can help with appetite, but there are actual appetite stimulants as well. If he doesn't get better, you can ask about pancreatitis. There is a blood test for that. The blood test isn't 100% accurate, but it can rule it in.

 

[arouetta]

The B-12 can help with appetite, but there are actual appetite stimulants as well. If he doesn't get better, you can ask about pancreatitis. There is a blood test for that. The blood test isn't 100% accurate, but it can rule it in.

If she were 10 years younger and cancer free, I could see aggressively seeking answers. But with her age and the fact that she has cancer, what's the point? I even asked the vet that question, is it worth it to track down the answer, and she said she'd rather see me spend my money on treatment of symptoms than tracking down the cause, since nearly every cause would be treated similarly.

The symptoms are dehydration, reduced appetite, weight loss and low energy. She said that Remeron is used in cats to make them eat, makes sense because it makes humans pack on the pounds as a side effect. She didn't want to resort to prednisone just yet, if there's any kind of infection going on prednisone would make it go all out of control so she wanted to start with something that wouldn't have that side effect.

I.....just don't know how to feel. I didn't expect any of this at all, not at all. I just want her last days to be happy.

 

[StefanZ]

I see your vet is a very wise one. Wise vet and wise person. If she is also a really good vet may be another question, but there is no doubt about the wisedom highly above the average.

So essentially, its a conservative treatment, with the main points of keeping her happy as long as its possible. As her long range life span is limited, we dont need to think on the nuances of premium nutrients as such. If she happily eats it and likes it, let her have it. Main thing is she eats and drinks.

Thus, dog foods of decent quality should be OK. If she eats it, is another question. Some cats like to sneak of the dogs food, som doesnt touch it. I presume the taste the producer puts in is different from the taste in cat foods.

Goats milk is always ok to use. If you can get raw goats milk, it may even give some help.
KMR - best PetAg in powder, but there are other brands too, is another alternative. Easy to digest, nourishing....
Use the stage I, NOT stage II.

You asked me about pedialyte.
Yes, pedialyte is good, not only when there is diarrhea and vomiting with heavy salts and electrolytes losses.
The contain of salts and glucose sugar in pedialyte is quite exactly as its naturally in body fluids, so there is no danger of overdoing it, giving too much.

Pedialyte, containing also glucose sugar is better than the oral rehydration solutions whose contain just salts. Look on the label if unsure!

You can give it to keep her hydrated as an alternative to these injections.

If there comes a real crisis, when she cant eat or cant digest, then pedialyte is what to try with. The glucose sugar doesnt need to be digested, its taken directly into blood already in the mouth, and thorough all the intestine system.
Its no absolute remedy, it wont save her if she is dying for real, but it may buy time for the healing process to work...

This also means, with much pedialyte given on daily basis, the need for real food is lesser than otherwise.


OK, what pedialyte?

Easiest is to buy such a flavorless clear pedialyte for babies. Although in a pinch, almost any may do.
The flavorless is best, the cat doesnt need the different extras as dyes, flavors and other chemicals.

Its of course possible to make own homemade pedialyte.

If you have time, find glucose sugar proper (dextrose, dextropur may be brandnames). By some ironic quirk, its not easy to find glucose sugar in USA.... Otherwise, honey or white caro syrup contains much glucose sugar. They are OK to use.
Table sugar is used in some receipts. Its OK for healthy persons, but needs to be digested, and thus doesnt work as quickly and as well.

Salts. Common kitchen salt is OK to start with, but kitchen minerale salt is better - it contains more of different salts.
A favorite is a good minerale water - this contains lotsa of different salts (look on the label). You can dilute it some.

A trifle of baking soda gives electrolytes and evens up the ph - not strictly necessary to add this, but is in some recipes.

So, in 1 litre of water;

1-1,5 soup spoons of glucose sugar (so you feel its sweetish, but not too sweet)
1 tea spoon of salts (or two bottles of 330 ml minerale water, diluted into this litre).
a trifle of baking soda

If you use the pedialyte as only nourishing source, you can of course add a little more of glucose sugar.

Mix and sterilize by boiling up (if you use the minerale water, the gases goes out simultaneously). Let it be body temp.

Use. Dont spare too long; its better to make new.

 

[Crabbycake]

I know what your vet is talking about with the faces but I don't see it in your cat. I'll post pictures of my cat when he was healthy and just before he died so you can see what I think the vet is talking about.

My vet has given injections of an antinausea medication. Maybe that would help her appetite a bit. In my experience a lot of stubborn cats and kittens looove turkey baby food. I've also had a few who like
Hartz Delectables Squeeze Up treats. I know Chewy has them and some Walmarts carry them too. Some cats will also lap up KMR or goat milk. Personally I'd dilute it less and give subq fluids that way you're getting more calories into them. There are also a few different types of nutrical that are high in calories. If she doesn't like one brand you could try another. I use canned sardines and makerel to trap cats; they seem to love it so maybe your cat would too.

If your cat is nibbling on food you should check the labels and go for the highest calorie ones you can find. I believe the highest calorie dry food I found was some kind of Purina One Chicken and Iams maximum calorie wet food is great if your vet will give you a script. If not Evangers Rabbit flavored food is calorie dense. My cats love it.

 

[Docs Mom]

Her eyes are brighter in the first, but that may just be the lighting. Maybe her eyes seem less focused, like staring off into nowhere...
I too have an 18 yr old kitty, Maggie.
She has been battling arthritis and mild kidney disease for the past 2 yrs.

That was taken in early spring I think,

Her earlier yrs, 14 or 15. She has been getting SQ fluids for 2 and a half yrs. Used to be twice a week, now it is every other day. She has been on Buprenex the same amount of time. Ironically, she does not need it as much now that she is thinner.
We have had 2 bad spells so far, both very scary. But it seems we tweak things a bit, and she decides she doesn't want to go yet.
She does get wet food two or three times a day and lots of treats.
she SPEAKS and I respond...with food treats or something...

Sorry for the novel, just thought it might help put things in perspective for you...just do what you can, and give her lots of love,

from Lisa and Maggie

 

[arouetta]

She's nibbling nearly every time I put food in front of her, but she stops quickly. I'm having a hard time keeping the boys away, they've always shared food and of course canned tuna and wet food is really exciting food to the other two. I'm hoping that if I don't allow them to eat it, that I throw it out when a day has passed instead of letting them finish it, they will realize it's not theirs and will quit trying to steal it.

Yesterday at 6am, my husband woke me up and said something about going to a wedding reception and likely to be gone for a couple of days. Which means our only car is a state away. I used Uber to get to the vet, he hadn't realized how serious things are, I truly believe he wouldn't had left if we had this information. But bottom line I can't just run to the store at a moment's notice. My daughter was able to find baby food where she works (the Target I work at doesn't carry meat only baby food), but her store had only the flavored Pedialyte, so I'm going to check work today to see if they have an unflavored variety.

Docs Mom, I can't see the difference in your photos either.

Shadow does get up and walk to a different sleeping spot, she's also getting on the couch to sleep there. She hasn't gotten on the chair, but she pretty much does that when my husband is home.

I did read one of the medication instructions wrong. The Remeron is every third day. I'm going to have to put in my calendar what day she gets what, it's confusing.

 

[LotsOfFur]

Just FYI (someone had mentioned an appetite stimulant) the Rameron is an appetite stimulant which is why it's given every third day.

Good call on the calendar, I had to do the same when I had to give that med.

Hugs and vibes to you and Shadow

 

[arouetta]

Just FYI (someone had mentioned an appetite stimulant) the Rameron is an appetite stimulant which is why it's given every third day.

Sigh. This is one of those things I never understand when giving cats medicine. Remeron is not an appetite stimulant. It's an antidepressant, and not that great of one in my opinion. Sure, like 90% of psych meds it'll make you fat, but that's not its purpose in life, it's just a nasty side effect. And there are psych meds that pack on the pounds much sooner and to a greater extent, so why Remeron instead of something like Depakote or Seroquel? Are they trying to make her less depressed about dying?

 

[momto3cats]

As far as changes in a cat's face near the end - I noticed this with my 19 year old cat before she passed in January. She had been losing weight rapidly towards the end, and had stopped grooming, so I put it down to that.

 

[LotsOfFur]

Rameron is an antidepressant for human use. Rameron is Mirtazapine which when used for cats is an appetite stimulant.

Mirtazapine is an antidepressant when used in people, but it possesses appetite-stimulating properties in anorexic cats...

 

[StefanZ]

Flavorless pedialyte may be found in the shelf for babies gears, as its supposed mainly for babies.

arouetta

 

[StefanZ]

If her problem is she doesnt wants to drink herself, sometimes a water fountain helps.

Momma ot our late first resident, had kidney problems the last years. And as a result, no thirst. They had to forcefeed water during two years. Later on they found, she drank woluntarily from a water fountain, so the last year of her life she didnt need no forcefeeding...

I suppose you can load the water fountain with pedialyte if necessary.

 

[arouetta]

Admittedly it's been 15 years, but I tried a water fountain and she decided in turn that she didn't need to drink. She downright hated it.

Since she literally is moving from one sleeping spot to the next, I'll put water in her face when I put food there, maybe that'll get her drinking.

 

[Lalka]

does your cat like catnip? Greenies, catnip flavor

 

[Willowy]

Boil up some chicken and give her the water. Add a pinch of lite salt (because it has sodium and potassium), but no other seasonings. That usually gets them drinking.

Also Gerber meat baby food, whatever her favorite flavor is. I like to nuke it for 15 seconds, pour whatever is liquid enough into a bowl, then fill the jar with hot tap water and shake it to get the rest of the baby food out. That way they get the food and a jarful of water, and most cats will drink that. Again, a tiny pinch of lite salt wouldn't be a bad idea.

 

[arouetta]

I left for work at 1:30pm, got home about half an hour ago, 11:30pm. She is dramatically worse. She can get up and move around, she even jumped up on a chair, but she just wants to lie there with her head at a weird angle. She's thrown up a lot of foam. She's completely ignoring food and water. My daughter got home about an hour and a half ago, I know she refused food and water then too. She's also breathing heavy and hard.

The only two things keeping me from going to the emergency vet tonight is lack of transportation and my husband not being home to say goodbye. I called him and told him to come home tomorrow morning. She's not so bad off *right now* that I feel I need to take a taxi to the emergency vet. But unless she gets back to the way she was this morning by tomorrow morning, it's time to let her go.

I heard that I should take the other cats with me, let them sniff her body after she's gone, so they won't spend months looking for her. Is that true?