Siamese color vs Breed?

[M_Intentions]

Hello! I have a rescued cat that my friend found back in March and he’s now a permanent member of my family! He’s a siamese colored cat though when my friend found him in March he was striking white-cream (leaning more towards white in person) with blue/lilac face, paws, and tail. His feet are socked. Anyway now that he’s been living indoors his body is turning a darker color! I did some search and the internet kept pointing to tonkinese. I’m not thinking he’s 100% a pureblood or anything but I was wondering about the siamese color vs a siamese or siamese-looking breed? Could Link actually be related to a pureblood tonkinese in his close background or a siamese or siamese-variant? Or is his just most likely a kitty marked like one of these purebred cats? I’m not good with genetics so be gentle. Thanks a bunch! I’m the pics attached the one of his eyes outside is when she first found him and so is the one where he is laying down on a striped shirt. The rest are current. Vet said in March he was about a year old.

 

[Furballsmom]

Hello!
What a sweetie, I'm so glad he has you!

Just in case you haven't seen this article, it's an enjoyable read until one of the experts has a chance to see your post;

Siamese Cats [An All-Inclusive Guide] - TheCatSite

Are you a cat lover? Then chances are you've encountered the elegant Siamese cat. With their striking blue eyes and distinct color points, they're hard to overlook! Siamese cats hold a cherished spot in the world of feline admiration, often landing them in the top ten lists of the most popular...

thecatsite.com

 

[M_Intentions]

Hello!
What a sweetie, I'm so glad he has you!

Just in case you haven't seen this article, it's an enjoyable read until one of the experts has a chance to see your post;

Siamese Cats [An All-Inclusive Guide] - TheCatSite

Are you a cat lover? Then chances are you've encountered the elegant Siamese cat. With their striking blue eyes and distinct color points, they're hard to overlook! Siamese cats hold a cherished spot in the world of feline admiration, often landing them in the top ten lists of the most popular...

thecatsite.com

Thanks for the link! The siamese has a very interesting history. I never knew the originals thought they could be reincarnated as their favorite siamese. Hopefully all those kitties knew how to escape!

 

[lutece]

He's very cute!

He would be described as a blue point and white domestic shorthair. Lilac point is a lighter color than your cat.

It's hard to say just from looking at him whether he has recent Siamese ancestry. His ear placement is similar to the Siamese, but most Siamese have a more slender and elongated appearance than your cat.

Tonkinese ancestry is less likely, since that is a much less common breed. Because the Tonkinese is a "moderate" breed without extreme type, it's pretty common for cats to have a general resemblance to this breed without actually being closely related. However I'm not seeing a close resemblance to Tonkinese, especially if you are located in the United States, as most Tonkinese in the US are somewhat more rounded and massive in type than your cat.

Most cats don't have recent breed ancestry, but that's ok... domestic shorthairs are great cats in their own right

 

[M_Intentions]

He's very cute!

He would be described as a blue point and white domestic shorthair. Lilac point is a lighter color than your cat.

It's hard to say just from looking at him whether he has recent Siamese ancestry. His ear placement is similar to the Siamese, but most Siamese have a more slender and elongated appearance than your cat.

Tonkinese ancestry is less likely, since that is a much less common breed. Because the Tonkinese is a "moderate" breed without extreme type, it's pretty common for cats to have a general resemblance to this breed without actually being closely related. However I'm not seeing a close resemblance to Tonkinese, especially if you are located in the United States, as most Tonkinese in the US are somewhat more rounded and massive in type than your cat.

Most cats don't have recent breed ancestry, but that's ok... domestic shorthairs are great cats in their own right

I was just curious and it’s so hard to find info on siamese color because everything I typed in just sent me straight to the siamese bred (or a siamese related bred like the tonkinese) it was very confusing! We do live in America; a heartland state. He was an outside “feral” cat that lived in the bad side of town. His “owner” hated his guts and would kick at him for biting - he craved affection and love desperately but he didn’t know the appropriate way to show love to a human. He’s come a long way. My friend wasn’t bit or stratched since they first few days she had him and he’s never nipped or clawed me. I doubted he was full purebred but was curious if it could be closer in his background than other DSH’s are. Either way I adore him. I haven’t had a cat in eight years because of allergies and I’ve missed cats so incredibly much! Thankfully he’s not affected me allergy-wise since the first day and a half.

 

[lutece]

He does sound like he's come a long way! I'm so glad he is not setting off your allergies too much, and that he has a loving and caring home now

 

[M_Intentions]

He does sound like he's come a long way! I'm so glad he is not setting off your allergies too much, and that he has a loving and caring home now

The changes are fantastic. I’ve been doing some research and I read that my hypoallergenic cat breeds were probably not going to be worth their salt in the end anyway, makes me so happy to have Link and that my bestie rescued him. She’s the best letting me have him. I remember my cat I had for a couple weeks when I was 14 would sleep on my chest. Link isn’t allowed in the bedroom but he’ll sleep on my lap for hours when I let him. He’s truly amazing!

 

[Willowy]

Pointed cats get lighter and darker with the seasons (darker in summer), and also get darker with age. The show preference is for a very light body, but without deliberate breeding for that, it just kind of defaults to a darker body color. So that's pretty normal for a pointed domestic shorthair.

He's a fine handsome kitty. I love his little white booties!

 

[M_Intentions]

Pointed cats get lighter and darker with the seasons (darker in summer), and also get darker with age. The show preference is for a very light body, but without deliberate breeding for that, it just kind of defaults to a darker body color. So that's pretty normal for a pointed domestic shorthair.

He's a fine handsome kitty. I love his little white booties!

Thanks! I was so confused about the whole color thing but I think you might’ve just answered it. Where I live we call anyone his color a siamese but I was getting so confused trying to look up siamese color online because purebred siamese would pop up... I’m gonna try to search for pointed domestic shorthair and see it I can get some better results.
I absolutely love him. When I was a child I had a huge black cat, and when I was fourteen I had a black cat I rescued but had to rehome due to allergies. In general growing up I always favorited the solid blacks or sometimes the calicos. If I would’ve thought about it I’d have probably tried to go for a solid blackie, but having Link now... He’s absolutely gorgeous. He’s also my first time being around a pointed colored cat and his eyes just kill me. Obviously looks aren’t everything; him cuddling with me for hours is my absolute favorite part of him.

 

[Furballsmom]

I'm so glad you two have each other

 

[M_Intentions]

I'm so glad you two have each other

Very glad how it all played out! I had been highly considering a hypoallergenic breed of cat, but unlike hypoallergenic dogs, hypoallergenic cats just aren’t the same (ha who would’ve guessed cats and dogs are different?). My two main choices were between Russian blue, and Bengal. I never really considered a siamese and why, I haven’t a clue, I dunno what Link is really but he’s definitely opened my eyes to the siamese-color pattern, haha.

 

[Meowmee]

Thanks so much for saving him To me he looks like a blue point snowshoe, not the face though, he is gorgeous since he was outside there is no way to know his background, he is a mix which is labeled as Dsh officially. But without the mits he looks like a purebred siamese.

Not all siamese cats are slender, the original siamese cats were all sealpoints and were larger stocky cats brought to England and the US from Thailand / Siam originally. They had rounder heads and eventually became know as appleheads or traditional siamese here. Around the 50’s people started breeding them mostly in the west for the more slender elongated look, which sometimes got out of hand, in some cases causing health issues unfortunately more recently.
My Quinn is a pure bred sealpoint, he is more slender but still very muscular and strong and he has the rounder shape head, but a bit more slender and a smaller head, although as a baby he often looked more wedgy at times.

If you look at the pics of siamese cats from the 1900’s you will see the stockier cats with bigger heads etc. Tiam O’ Shian IV pictured at this link... I am just reading a book about the original siamese cats and other cat breeds from Thailand which is very interesting.

Thai cat - Wikipedia

 

[lutece]

[...] the original siamese cats were all sealpoints and were larger stocky cats brought to England and the US from Thailand / Siam originally. They had rounder heads and eventually became know as appleheads or traditional siamese here.

The original Thai cats had a relatively slender and angular body style compared to European cats of the time, and were described by early breeders as "marten-faced." They weren't round-headed or stocky. The rounder-headed cats known as "apple-heads" were produced by some breeders in the post war period.
Here is the TICA Thai breed presentation. It is well-researched and has many pictures.

https://tica.org/images/Breed-Seminars/th.pdf

The photograph that you posted of Tiam-o'Shian IV probably makes him appear more round headed than he really was, and I expect that it was taken after he developed stud jowls... this is his full sister, Eve, showing her wedge shaped head and wide set ears extending the wedge (the image is from the History Project, here is Eve's page The History Project: Eve).

Here is another related early Siamese, "Goblin" who was born even earlier in 1888 from two imported parents, showing the early head shape. Goblin would probably have been more slender than he appears in this picture, if he hadn't been a neutered, pampered pet. (Goblin's History Project page here: The History Project: Goblin). You can also see the typical flat coat of the Siamese here.


Early breeders were fascinated with this breed and its differences from other cats being shown at the time. Siamese were very popular among show breeders and were selectively bred to emphasize a wedge shaped head, large ears, slender and elongated body style. You can see a lot of pictures of pre-WWII Siamese at the History Project: The History Project: Gallery: Siamese

In the post-WWII period, the popularity of Siamese on the pet market meant that large numbers of pointed cats were bred and sold as Siamese... not all of these were registered and pedigreed, or bred to any breed standard. While show Siamese were developed towards an increasingly extreme ideal, pet cats bred and sold as Siamese during the 1950s and onward had a variety of head and body types ranging from elongated and wedge-headed, to very stocky and round-headed ("apple-headed," a term which arose in the post war period). Since spaying and neutering wasn't as common at that time, and most people allowed their cats to roam outdoors, intact Siamese interbred with other cats, and the colorpoint gene (responsible for pointed coloring) became extremely widespread in the domestic cat gene pool.

In recent decades, pedigreed Siamese of all types are much less popular, probably because buyers have many more pedigreed breeds to choose from, and Siamese no longer seem as exotic as they once did. On the other hand, pointed domestic cats without recent Siamese ancestry are seen everywhere, because the colorpoint gene is now so widespread. There are still some Siamese breeders breeding cats with various body and head styles, so it is possible to find pedigreed Siamese with moderate type or even round-headed "apple heads"... but this doesn't mean that any moderate-type pointed cat is likely to be a Siamese... the majority of pointed cats with moderate type are domestic shorthairs that only have distant Siamese ancestry, many generations back.

 

[Furballsmom]

...makes me really really miss my meezer heart-angel-baby from years ago. He was some cat! The only one I've met since with a similarly huge personality is my Poppycat

 

[Kieka]

Try looking up "point coloration cat" instead of siamese color. Technically, Colorpoint is the term for the color variation across species while siamese is a specific breed that is colorpoint.

Also, my boy is Link too!

Here is my Link, a seal point with white.

 

[M_Intentions]

Thanks so much for saving him To me he looks like a blue point snowshoe, not the face though, he is gorgeous since he was outside there is no way to know his background, he is a mix which is labeled as Dsh officially. But without the mits he looks like a purebred siamese.

Not all siamese cats are slender, the original siamese cats were all sealpoints and were larger stocky cats brought to England and the US from Thailand / Siam originally. They had rounder heads and eventually became know as appleheads or traditional siamese here. Around the 50’s people started breeding them mostly in the west for the more slender elongated look, which sometimes got out of hand, in some cases causing health issues unfortunately more recently.
My Quinn is a pure bred sealpoint, he is more slender but still very muscular and strong and he has the rounder shape head, but a bit more slender and a smaller head, although as a baby he often looked more wedgy at times.

If you look at the pics of siamese cats from the 1900’s you will see the stockier cats with bigger heads etc. Tiam O’ Shian IV pictured at this link... I am just reading a book about the original siamese cats and other cat breeds from Thailand which is very interesting.

Thai cat - Wikipedia

View attachment 347922

The original Thai cats had a relatively slender and angular body style compared to European cats of the time, and were described by early breeders as "marten-faced." They weren't round-headed or stocky. The rounder-headed cats known as "apple-heads" were produced by some breeders in the post war period.
Here is the TICA Thai breed presentation. It is well-researched and has many pictures.

https://tica.org/images/Breed-Seminars/th.pdf

The photograph that you posted of Tiam-o'Shian IV probably makes him appear more round headed than he really was, and I expect that it was taken after he developed stud jowls... this is his full sister, Eve, showing her wedge shaped head and wide set ears extending the wedge (the image is from the History Project, here is Eve's page The History Project: Eve).
View attachment 347982
Here is another related early Siamese, "Goblin" who was born even earlier in 1888 from two imported parents, showing the early head shape. Goblin would probably have been more slender than he appears in this picture, if he hadn't been a neutered, pampered pet. (Goblin's History Project page here: The History Project: Goblin). You can also see the typical flat coat of the Siamese here.

View attachment 347983
Early breeders were fascinated with this breed and its differences from other cats being shown at the time. Siamese were very popular among show breeders and were selectively bred to emphasize a wedge shaped head, large ears, slender and elongated body style. You can see a lot of pictures of pre-WWII Siamese at the History Project: The History Project: Gallery: Siamese

In the post-WWII period, the popularity of Siamese on the pet market meant that large numbers of pointed cats were bred and sold as Siamese... not all of these were registered and pedigreed, or bred to any breed standard. While show Siamese were developed towards an increasingly extreme ideal, pet cats bred and sold as Siamese during the 1950s and onward had a variety of head and body types ranging from elongated and wedge-headed, to very stocky and round-headed ("apple-headed," a term which arose in the post war period). Since spaying and neutering wasn't as common at that time, and most people allowed their cats to roam outdoors, intact Siamese interbred with other cats, and the colorpoint gene (responsible for pointed coloring) became extremely widespread in the domestic cat gene pool.

In recent decades, pedigreed Siamese of all types are much less popular, probably because buyers have many more pedigreed breeds to choose from, and Siamese no longer seem as exotic as they once did. On the other hand, pointed domestic cats without recent Siamese ancestry are seen everywhere, because the colorpoint gene is now so widespread. There are still some Siamese breeders breeding cats with various body and head styles, so it is possible to find pedigreed Siamese with moderate type or even round-headed "apple heads"... but this doesn't mean that any moderate-type pointed cat is likely to be a Siamese... the majority of pointed cats with moderate type are domestic shorthairs that only have distant Siamese ancestry, many generations back.

Thanks for all the info! Before Link I was going to look into a purebred siamese for their hypoallergenic quality but upon more research I’m so glad I went and rescued Link (shoutout to my best friend there) instead. Where he has siamese or not in his background I absolutely adore him. He loves me and follows me everywhere... cuddles in my lap when he sees I’m sitting down... I told my mother when I had to rehome my cat when I was fourteen I was a cat person not a dog person and though I do like some dogs Link is just reaffirming my previous disposition; I’m definitely a cat person . Link has been the first cat of mine in 8 years and the first ever siamese look-a-like so he’s special on multiple points!

 

[M_Intentions]

Try looking up "point coloration cat" instead of siamese color. Technically, Colorpoint is the term for the color variation across species while siamese is a specific breed that is colorpoint.

Also, my boy is Link too!

Here is my Link, a seal point with white.

View attachment 347990

thanks for the suggestion! And omg your Link is gorgeous! I dunno about you but on my Link and yours I just adore their little white feet just melts my heart for some crazy reason! Link is my first siamese before I had a black cat (two; definitely one of my favorite kitty colors) and calicos. Siamese or colorpoint shorthairs are quickly becoming a favorite of mine!

 

[M_Intentions]

...makes me really really miss my meezer heart-angel-baby from years ago. He was some cat! The only one I've met since with a similarly huge personality is my Poppycat

I love all cats. If I would’ve chosen and not been spur of the moment I probably would’ve searched for a solid black kitty but color isn’t everything and Link is just absolutely amazing. I never wanna be without a cat again!