Siamese/Balinese Mix?

[aqualoon]

Humane Society had him listed as Siamese mix, but he has longer hair - isn't a longer hair Siamese a Balinese?  Also, what's the difference between a Balinese and a Ragdoll?  Both have longer hair and blue eyes.

He's 5 months old - was an owner surrender.

Needaname1_zpsd37d0042.jpg

• aqualoon
• Jul 29, 2013

Needaname2_zps60f3dde7.jpg

• aqualoon
• Jul 29, 2013

 

[catspaw66]

He is a gorgeous cat. Without papers, it would be hard to tell what kind of genes are in his background. Probably some Siamese somewhere, but without expensive genetic testing (which is not very accurate anyway), you can't say what his genetic background is. My Psy

looked like him, but her mother was a calico, and her grandmother was solid black. She had the slightly crossed eyes, the kinked tail, and THE VOICE.  Go figure.

Keep posting pictures of him at regular intervals, we love to see kittens grow up.

 

[aqualoon]

Yeah was making my normal Petsfinder rounds as I have been looking for a cat/kitten for a few weeks now.  When I saw him I knew he must be mine - if he wasn't adopted already and within 10 minutes had an adoption hold placed on him.

 

[flintmccullough]

Not-a-Siamese-or-Siamese-mix,the-head-and-ears-is-not-even-close.

http://www.cfainc.org/Breeds/BreedsSthruT/Siamese.aspx

Not-a-Balinese-either,head-and-ears-are-still-wrong.

http://www.cfainc.org/Breeds/BreedsAB/Balinese.aspx

Maybe-a-Burman,the-head-is-right,kinda-round-like-a-Burman,but-Burman's-have-white-paws,this-kitten-doesn't.

http://www.cfainc.org/Breeds/BreedsAB/Birman.aspx

The-head-doesn't-look-right-for-a-Ragdoll,their-head-is-more-refined,per-say,and-to-the-best-of-my-knowledge,they-have-the-white-on-their-face,this-kitten-doesn't.

http://www.cfainc.org/Breeds/BreedsKthruR/Ragdoll.aspx

I-have-seen-that-color-before,LOL,but-right-now-it-escapes-me,LOL.

The-reason-rescue-groups-put-a-label,on-them-is-so-they-get-a-home-faster.The-average-public,has-no-clue-what-the-current-Siamese-looks-like,and-they-think-of-the-old-apple-headed-Siamese.So-any-pointed-kitty-that-comes-in,they-label-them-Siamese,LOL.

But,without-registration-papers,its-just-a-domestic-LH-kitty.

The-kitten-could-be-a-breed-kitten,maybe-the-owner-purchased-one,and-then,life-happens,its-too-bad,this-kitten-looks-breed,the-owner-should-have-contacted-the-breeder,they-would-have-taken-the-kitten-back,its-even-in-the-contract.

Very-pretty-kitten,are-you-considering-him?

 

[aqualoon]

Originally Posted by FlintMcCullough  

The-reason-rescue-groups-put-a-label,on-them-is-so-they-get-a-home-faster.The-average-public,has-no-clue-what-the-current-Siamese-looks-like,and-they-think-of-the-old-apple-headed-Siamese.So-any-pointed-kitty-that-comes-in,they-label-them-Siamese,LOL.

But,without-registration-papers,its-just-a-domestic-LH-kitty.

The-kitten-could-be-a-breed-kitten,maybe-the-owner-purchased-one,and-then,life-happens,its-too-bad,this-kitten-looks-breed,the-owner-should-have-contacted-the-breeder,they-would-have-taken-the-kitten-back,its-even-in-the-contract.

Very-pretty-kitten,are-you-considering-him?

I do think this little guy was bred, the shelter had surrender sheet with this guy and the person who had him prior lost their job and couldn't afford the vetting that needed to get done.

Also I purchased a lynx point siamese years back from a breeder and have recently looked at other breeders who do lynx/lilac/blue point siamese and honestly - none of them look like the traditional Siamese.  For example google "lynx point siamese kittens" look at the breeders and you'll see what I mean.  Is this a trend?  I mean kittens/cats that look like the above and in the google search?

Oh and he was considered and now is mine

 

[franksmom]

He is so beautiful I wish there were more pointed cats in shelters here it is so hard to find one without going to a breeder. To me he looks like a lynx point ragdoll but is probably a mix or the result of pet quality cats breeding in a BYB situation as his head shape is a bit off. He could also just be the result of two domestics breeding who both carried the pointed gene thus having some simamese ancestry possibly many generations back. 

He look a little like my lynx-point birman in his pattern but his eyes are lighter than hers like my ragdolls eyes.

 

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• franksmom
• May 20, 2013

 

[maewkaew]

 He is a beautiful  Blue Lynx Point!   just a lovely kitten.    He does not look like he's truly Siamese  / Balinese .    He does look like some cats that people pass off as "Balinese"   but he looks like he's got too much coat for one thing. .    

   Having the pointed pattern means he almost certainly had some Siamese somewhere in his ancestry ,  but it's very hard to say how far back it could be or what other breeds may be mixed in (if any -- maybe it's otherwise all non-pedigree random-bred cats.)     The gene for this pattern has been widely spread into the random bred cat population over the past century ,  so there are now many pointed cats that are way   less than 0.001% Siamese. 

But shelters usually just label them all Siamese.  or call the longhairs Balinese.      or may call them another breed that got the pattern from crosses to Siamese,  like Himalayan 

He   does look like he may be a bit longer than average in the body.   That might just be a growth stage since he is still a kitten....  but could  be a sign of some recent Siamese or Balinese ancestry.    From one front view photo i can't get a really definite idea of his head shape.  .   Front views can collapse the features and make the head appear rounder and shorter-muzzled than it is.  The long fur also makes it harder to see the shape of the bone structure.  But I do see some  hint that his head looks longer than Franksmom's  lynx point Birman.  and it might be sort of like some old style Siamese.  

If he DID have a typical Siamese voice -- lower pitched than most cats,  sort of nasal / vibrato sounding --  that would be a sign  of probable recent ancestry of one of those breeds.   ( Not that they ALL have The Voice.  but if a cat does have it,  it probably does have a fair amount of ancestry of cats from that part of the world. ) 

 I know hardly any lynx point Siamese of moderate type (labeled as "Traditional"  and other terms)  that I would trust the pedigrees.

And  I don't know of any Balis of that body type that I would  trust the pedigrees.

However there certainly are genuine blue point and lilac point Siamese of the old type.  I have one of each.   and I've got a litter right now with some blue point kittens  with ancestry from old Siamese lines from the U.S., UK and Germany,  and from recent imports from Thailand ( Siam).  

 

[aqualoon]

I should point out I really don't care what he is as he has stolen my heart and I love him to death.

I breed fish - so this sort of thing does interest me.  I know it's hard to identify tone in type just know that I'm not trying to argue anything just genuinely curious.

As for his voice, it isn't all that low but this could be due to his age.  He is a real talker though which I know is a Siamese trait (again how far back is anyone's guess).  I'll see if I can't get a better shot of his head - will have to be while sleeping as he is constantly on the move.  Also his coat is long, fine and very very soft (I'm not sure if that helps any).

The breeder I bought Avery from (the Lynx Point Siamese) I did go and see his mother and father - mother was a Tortie Siamese and father a Lynx Point.  I posted him up here before his passing and there was some discussion because his body was rather dark and had circular markings (almost like a bengal) verse being a clear coat.  And I even knew his pedigree.

So yeah, I find this stuff very interesting.

 

[catspaw66]

If you find feline genetics interesting, you should google siamese cat genetics. There are numerous sites that give the genetic crosses to create new breeds like Tonkinese.  The one that I like is Cat World

 

[maewkaew]

Well, I'm glad to hear you love him to death no matter what his ancestry may be ( which you will probably never know!) .

 Please don't think I am saying he's any less deserving of love if he's got a lot of something else mixed in !     or less beautiful . 

 He reminds me of a cat who was very dear to me,  a Blue Lynx Point and White Domestic Longhair from a shelter. 

 He may have been bred,  but there is a limit to how much that means.  Shelters aren't the only ones who label any pointed cat "Siamese" or "Balinese" etc.  There are a lot of faux Siamese /  Balinese from breeders  with no papers,  papers from a bogus registry,   or even a bunch of them that reportedly have hung papers.   And there's also people crossing  Siamese ( or "Siamese")  with Ragdolls or Himalayans.   So something like that could be possible. 

 I would be interested to see if you get some photos of the head from side view. and maybe a diagonal view.   and if there's a way to smooth back the fur some. 

 also a photo standing up from the side to show body type.  But in that,  I can just tell you I'm looking to see if he's  more elongated than the average Western cat.    It looks to me like he might be.  but at this age he may still go through a lot of shape morphing . 

 

[catspaw66]

Same here. Anyone who wouldn't melt at a face like that needs to be locked away for the good of the human gene pool. My ladies are all moggies, and I would come down like a megaton of bricks on any thing or anyone that tried to harm them. (Ask the coyote that may still be running away at 100 miles an hour)