Should we go on prednisolone?

[Whenallhellbreakslose]

But why is everyone ignoring the fact that he still vomited before he had gallstones? His current vet is also ignored it when I called her and asked about it. It's like nobody listens. How can you be so certain that removing it will so surely solve the problem, if the problem was there before the stones?

If we now compare human and cat physiology, my mom has had gallstones for 20 years now. She doesn't feel anything (did a little bit in the beginning, when they were small) and her doctor says it's possible to live with gallstones.

Let's say we get the surgery and he still vomits because his vomiting is due to pancreas and ibd. And he also has to be on a diet he doesn't like which will result in him going on a hunger strike while also still vomiting. Then Musiaka is going to die. Also, because of ibd, he definitely has lots of inflammation in his body, how is that going to affect his surgery? If I lose Musiaka I'm not going to make it.

I have had GI troubles (IBS being one of then) for a long time. I have been tested before and Gall Stones did not show up. Last year, however they did. Some people live with Gall Stones a long time (like your mom) and they do not encounter a problem. However, if stones do get stuck in the Bile duct (surgery is very necessary). In my country (USA), there are over 700,000 Cholecystectomies surgeries to remove the GB done annually. Out of that number, 10,000 people die annually from complications with Gall Stones and Galbladder disease. I didn't see the breakdown by age and whether there were other health issues that could have increased the chances of complications. I really don't know the statistics with animals GB removal surgery, but not removing a GB when there are stones in the Bile duct is life threatening.

Your kitties stomach ailments did not start with Gall Stones, but he has them now and it could make things much worse. Gall bladder attacks on top of whatever other condition he has could be very painful. I have had a time where I though a GB attack was happening, and it was painful, but thankfully it wasn't one. I have since lost a lot of weight, improved my diet and exercise daily. If the worst happened and I did have to get my GB removed, then I would just do it. My Gastero told me that she has done the surgery on people with IBS. So please speak to your vet about this. As with any surgery, there is the possibility of complication, however a GB attack is a ticking time bomb. My mother had a bad GB attack out of the blue and had to get it removed right away. She didn't even know she had Gall stones. Some people could have it for years with not much problems, and then there are people like my mom who was taken by surprise. You just never know.

All your kitty's ailments should be addressed and treated. Maybe he could be put on medicine for those other ailments, but you must see that your kitty receives the care he needs. If you were nauseus and vomiting and experiencing all the symptoms your cat is going through and finding out you have Gall Stones---what would you do? It all comes down to quality of life. You should try medicines for his other ailments. However, Gall Stones on top of other stomach ailments is no picnic to live with. It would be best to have the Gall Bladder removed because it would be one less health problem for your cat to deal with.

 

[Musiaka]

I have had GI troubles (IBS being one of then) for a long time. I have been tested before and Gall Stones did not show up. Last year, however they did. Some people live with Gall Stones a long time (like your mom) and they do not encounter a problem. However, if stones do get stuck in the Bile duct (surgery is very necessary). In my country (USA), there are over 700,000 Cholecystectomies surgeries to remove the GB done annually. Out of that number, 10,000 people die annually from complications with Gall Stones and Galbladder disease. I didn't see the breakdown by age and whether there were other health issues that could have increased the chances of complications. I really don't know the statistics with animals GB removal surgery, but not removing a GB when there are stones in the Bile duct is life threatening.

Your kitties stomach ailments did not start with Gall Stones, but he has them now and it could make things much worse. Gall bladder attacks on top of whatever other condition he has could be very painful. I have had a time where I though a GB attack was happening, and it was painful, but thankfully it wasn't one. I have since lost a lot of weight, improved my diet and exercise daily. If the worst happened and I did have to get my GB removed, then I would just do it. My Gastero told me that she has done the surgery on people with IBS. So please speak to your vet about this. As with any surgery, there is the possibility of complication, however a GB attack is a ticking time bomb. My mother had a bad GB attack out of the blue and had to get it removed right away. She didn't even know she had Gall stones. Some people could have it for years with not much problems, and then there are people like my mom who was taken by surprise. You just never know.

All your kitty's ailments should be addressed and treated. Maybe he could be put on medicine for those other ailments, but you must see that your kitty receives the care he needs. If you were nauseus and vomiting and experiencing all the symptoms your cat is going through and finding out you have Gall Stones---what would you do? It all comes down to quality of life. You should try medicines for his other ailments. However, Gall Stones on top of other stomach ailments is no picnic to live with. It would be best to have the Gall Bladder removed because it would be one less health problem for your cat to deal with.

I have just received an answer from our old vet in Stockholm, Sweden. This is what he says:
"Gallstones are assymtomatic in cats and other animals unless they are causing a blockage. That's when they need to be removed. I have never done the surgery on a cat just because of vomiting, let alone remove the gallbladder completely."

This guy has over 30 years of experience and even does this type.of surgery himself in his private clinic. So no more speculation and comparing to our own bodies. Musiaka won't be cut open and lose an organ. We will search for another sollution.

Also, don"t talk to me like I'm not addressing my cat's needs! You have no idea how much we've been through trying to find a sollution and how much money I am putting into this monthly!

 

[Musiaka]

I have just received an answer from our old vet in Stockholm, Sweden. This is what he says:
"Gallstones are assymtomatic in cats and other animals unless they are causing a blockage. That's when they need to be removed. I have never done the surgery on a cat just because of vomiting, let alone remove the gallbladder completely."

This guy has over 30 years of experience and even does this type.of surgery himself in his private clinic. So no more speculation and comparing to our own bodies. Musiaka won't be cut open and lose an organ. We will search for another sollution.

Also, please don't talk to me like I'm not addressing my cat's needs! You have no idea how much we have gone through trying to find a good sollution

 

[Whenallhellbreakslose]

Fine. Go on your vets advice. Put your kitty on Prednisolone. Upgrade other medicines if Kitty is still having vomiting episodes. However, if nothing is working after that--then you will have to find a new solution.

I am not accusing you of not taking care of your cat. I am just saying try to find what works for your cat. I wish you the best. Hope Musiaka gets better soon.

 

[Musiaka]

Fine. Go on your vets advice. Put your kitty on Prednisolone. Upgrade other medicines if Kitty is still having vomiting episodes. However, if nothing is working after that--then you will have to find a new solution.

I am not accusing you of not taking care of your cat. I am just saying try to find what works for your cat. I wish you the best. Hope Musiaka gets better soon.

Thanks, and sorry that I overreacted!

 

[Lucy&Petra]

Why don't you try the medication for awhile? See if it helps. If it doesn't help, then consider the surgery.

By the way, I REALLY feel for you. You are in a difficult spot, trying to do the best you can in a really tough situation. *hug*

 

[dustydiamond1]

Did they have any suggestions about the vomiting?

 

[Musiaka]

Did they have any suggestions about the vomiting?

He suggested a low- fat diet and digestive enzymes + probiotic, and to go on prednisolone if it doesn't work. Says there is never one answer to this type of problem, as in - removing the gallbladder and expecting that it will definitely fix everything. Gallstones are asymptomatic in animals. So the vomiting issue is way more complex, it's a chronic inflammation.
However the food I started feeding Musiaka recently, Purina Pro Plan Delicate, has a high fat content, even though it's meant to help gastro-intestinal issues. Will probably choose something with a lower percentage and include digestive enzymes (we already take a probiotic and b12+folic acid)

 

[Musiaka]

Does anybody know if human electrolytes that you can buy at the pharmacy suits cats?
We're having a major flareup right now, I need to restore his electrolytes, since he's vomiting twice a day.
Gonna go talk to our local vet about starting prednisolone asap

 

[dustydiamond1]

Does anybody know if human electrolytes that you can buy at the pharmacy suits cats?
We're having a major flareup right now, I need to restore his electrolytes, since he's vomiting twice a day.
Gonna go talk to our local vet about starting prednisolone asap

I asked if anyone has ever used it for their cats on @Jcatbirds thread. Seems I've read somewhere someone used infant Pedialyte but can't remember where. Hopefully someone who has used it will respond. Inaba Churu have a high moisture level and Gypsy finds them very tasty.

 

[MissClouseau]

Says there is never one answer to this type of problem, as in - removing the gallbladder and expecting that it will definitely fix everything. Gallstones are asymptomatic in animals. So the vomiting issue is way more complex, it's a chronic inflammation.

It's nearly impossible to be sure if Musiaka's vomiting would go away if the gallstones were to go away but it's also entirely possible chronic inflammation is caused by gallbladder issues and gallstones IS a gallbladder issue. And on that...

Gallstones are asymptomatic in animals

This is only true sometimes and only in some cases. All the cats I have known who had gallstones and read about on here were very much symptomatic and their symptoms were similar as Musiaka's.

I will leave this here: Gallstones in Cats - Symptoms, Causes, Diagnosis, Treatment, Recovery, Management, Cost

I remember you were hesitant about using ursoidol. Have you started to use them? That might help to dissolve the stones as the vet told you and even if not, it might help with bile acids (my own cat is on it currently too over a different liver-gallbladder problem.) Gallstones don't just cause trouble if there is a full blockage or something. They also can lead to inflammation and/or too much work on liver and infection. That could very well be why Musiaka did well when he was on antibiotics.

 

[Whenallhellbreakslose]

Yes, you can give unflavored Pedialyt to cats. However in the case of more severe Dehydration it is not advised. You would have to go to the vet if that is the case. I have giving Pedialyt to my cats when they were sick and were dealing with vomiting and diahreaa.
I have also giving it to sick out door cats (I put in their water). It really does help to rebalance the electrolytes. It did a good job when I was using it.

Here is an article about it from a vet site. However, with Musiaka's GI troubles, I would still consult your vet to be on the safe side.

Here is the article as mentioned.

Cat Dehydration Treatment with Pedialyte

 

[Musiaka]

It's nearly impossible to be sure if Musiaka's vomiting would go away if the gallstones were to go away but it's also entirely possible chronic inflammation is caused by gallbladder issues and gallstones IS a gallbladder issue. And on that...


This is only true sometimes and only in some cases. All the cats I have known who had gallstones and read about on here were very much symptomatic and their symptoms were similar as Musiaka's.

I will leave this here: Gallstones in Cats - Symptoms, Causes, Diagnosis, Treatment, Recovery, Management, Cost

I remember you were hesitant about using ursoidol. Have you started to use them? That might help to dissolve the stones as the vet told you and even if not, it might help with bile acids (my own cat is on it currently too over a different liver-gallbladder problem.) Gallstones don't just cause trouble if there is a full blockage or something. They also can lead to inflammation and/or too much work on liver and infection. That could very well be why Musiaka did well when he was on antibiotics.

He had vomiting flareups before he had gallstones. I have Musiaka's old journal where his ultrasound in 2019 is described in details. He had no gallstones. And we did the ultrasound when he had a major episode. I have repeated this several times in this thread and people still urge me to go through with a dangerous surgery.

Pancreatitis also reacts well to antibiotics which could also be explained why Musiaka didn't vomit on it. We will get tested for pancreatitis.

I will trust the vet and not remove his gallbladder so the surgery is out of question, no need to try and talk me into it.

Ursodiol can only be used on gallstones made out of cholesterol. Musiaka's stones are calcified.

 

[Musiaka]

I bought a special electrolyte blend for dogs and cats at the vet pharmacy, it's with a taste of bone broth. Musiaka liked it. He's eating well and hasn't vomited today.

I'm trying out Nusetia's Enzyme Miracle that I bought earlier this year but didn't start giving yet. There are some promising comments on Amazon and it seems to have helped chronically vomiting cats.

And one more time, we will not get the surgery. I have a bad feeling about it and our old vet's comment put the surgery out of my mind.

 

[dustydiamond1]

Happy the electrolyte is helping.I bet he'd like some wheat or cat grass. Catgrass seeds can be found online, the wheatgrass too, they both are easy to grow. I buy wheatgrass from the grocery store already growing. Does he like to be brushed? That will help prevent hairballs.

 

[MissClouseau]

He had vomiting flareups before he had gallstones. I have Musiaka's old journal where his ultrasound in 2019 is described in details. He had no gallstones

Gallstones can be caused by bile sludging and bile sludging alone can also cause vomiting flareups and liver issues. Anything about gallbladder affect liver and then pancreas over time.

Pancreatitis also reacts well to antibiotics which could also be explained why Musiaka didn't vomit on it

Read above, if there is pancreatitis gallbladder might the main cause of that. If so, treating pancreatitis is not a permanent solution if the main issue is on the gallbladder. The problem will return.

I will trust the vet and not remove his gallbladder so the surgery is out of question, no need to try and talk me into it.

I'm not a vet myself so it's definitely not my intention to say "go with surgery" or "don't go with the surgery." But it's starting to sound like you go with the vet whose answer you are the least afraid of which may not be the best medical decision. It was also a vet who told you to do the surgery.

Ursodiol can only be used on gallstones made out of cholesterol. Musiaka's stones are calcified.

I remember telling you ursodiol is also used for all kinds of inflammation and bile sludging. To increase the flow of the acids. My own cat does not have any kind of stones but she's on it too for inflammation.

I know you very much care for Musiaka and trying hard to do the best for him. Just don't let fear take the decisions.

 

[Musiaka]

Concept for Life Veterinary Diet Gastrointestinal

This looks better than Purina Pro Plan Delicate, lower fat content. Hopefully Musiaka will like it

Gallstones can be caused by bile sludging and bile sludging alone can also cause vomiting flareups and liver issues. Anything about gallbladder affect liver and then pancreas over time.


Read above, if there is pancreatitis gallbladder might the main cause of that. If so, treating pancreatitis is not a permanent solution if the main issue is on the gallbladder. The problem will return.


I'm not a vet myself so it's definitely not my intention to say "go with surgery" or "don't go with the surgery." But it's starting to sound like you go with the vet whose answer you are the least afraid of which may not be the best medical decision. It was also a vet who told you to do the surgery.


I remember telling you ursodiol is also used for all kinds of inflammation and bile sludging. To increase the flow of the acids. My own cat does not have any kind of stones but she's on it too for inflammation.

I know you very much care for Musiaka and trying hard to do the best for him. Just don't let fear take the decisions.

A vet who recommended the surgery doesn't make these kind of surgeries herself and is very young, in her 20's. Which is usually a plus, I like young vets, they are very careful and soft handed. But the old vet does gallbladder and gallstones removal himself and has over 30 years of experience as a vet... so I trust his opinion more. Besides, it sides with my gut feeling.

About ursodiol - I don't even know. I read that it shouldn't be used if there are calcified stones present and to be cautious if a cat already has pancreatitis, which Musiaka might have (we will soon get the test done).

I don't want to make things worse, especially because we don't have a 24/7 vet clinic anywhere near us...

 

[MissClouseau]

About ursodiol - I don't even know. I read that it shouldn't be used if there are calcified stones present and to be cautious if a cat already has pancreatitis, which Musiaka might have (we will soon get the test done).

If you trust your old vet more, maybe you can ask him about Ursodiol too.


P.S. My girl has been on ProPlan Hepatic dry food for months now because of her gallbladder-liver problems. She has sensitive digestion even without an additional problem but this worked well for her so far. Quite a simple formula.

PRO PLAN VET HP Hepatic Dry Cat Food | Purina

 

[Musiaka]

If you trust your old vet more, maybe you can ask him about Ursodiol too.


P.S. My girl has been on ProPlan Hepatic dry food for months now because of her gallbladder-liver problems. She has sensitive digestion even without an additional problem but this worked well for her so far. Quite a simple formula.

PRO PLAN VET HP Hepatic Dry Cat Food | Purina

That's a good idea, I will ask him about Ursodiol and think/read about it more. I read some threads on here where people used it just to try out and see if it worked, so it's possible that I overreact by being too careful about Ursodiol. One thing that threw me off was how insecure the new vet was about prescribing it and later, after taking a second look at Musiaka's gallstones she changed her mind and said we shouldn't use it. I think she is a bit afraid as well and that definitely rubs off on that anxious mess that I am as a pet owner.

About dry food - we don't use it anymore, I stopped feeding Musiaka kibble back in June I think. Since then he stopped drinking water completely. But so far I don't see all that many changes in his gi health, even after quitting dry food.

 

[Musiaka]

By the way, the electrolyte drink I give Musiaka is this one. It has a great taste!