Should I start raw food with my kittens?

[custardnsophie]

Or are they too young? They are nearly 9 weeks and currently eating Evangers wet food, but I am finding they seem to want variety. I have looked over a few articles on raw feeding and I am just a little overwhelmed. One said you had to grind up bone? How much liver would be too much based off the vitamin A content? Any tips on making it less time consuming? And I still need them to be able to eat dry food (which right now they don't seem to want though that is what they were eating when they were still with mom) just in case I can't be home all day to feed them. I am considering doing part raw, part canned with dry mixed in occasionally to get them used to it. Does that sound good? Gosh I am the question queen!

 

[speakhandsforme]

No age is too young (or old!) to transition to raw!! And since your babies are 9 weeks old it will probably actually be pretty easy to transition them. It seems the younger the cat, the easier the transition.

If you're worried about their nutritional needs, feeding them raw in the right proportions means feeding them what they would be eating in the wild, and that is the optimal evolutionary diet for the domesticated cat. Kittens at 9 weeks would be weaned from their mom and eating the stuff she hunted -- mice, birds, lizards, bugs, etc., including all their organs and bones -- and soon they would be learning to catch and eat all these things themselves. So just keep that in mind. :nod:

You certainly don't have to grind up bone, or anything else for that matter. From what I understand there are generally three types of raw feeding:

--Ground, which you can make yourself with a grinder OR buy commercially,
--Frankenprey, which is cut-up meat and organs from the grocery store along with the small bones in things like chicken wings,
--Whole prey, which is just dead whole animals like mice and small birds that you can order online from feeder websites, or sometimes find locally.

Catcentric is the site run by one of our forum members, Auntie Crazy. She is a raw feeding guru and has provided lots of handy info on that website, including an Excel spreadsheet that calculates automatically the amounts of everything you need to feed per week and month based on your cat's weight.

My suggestion is always to try frankenprey before worrying about what to do with ground. It's easy to test their interest in raw meat this way. When you are making dinner one night, just cut a little piece off of whatever meat you're going to cook that evening and offer that to them. If they gobble it up, they'll probably love raw!! If they don't, then there are ways to get them to like it. But again, since your babies are SO young, I think they'll take to it instinctively. IMO it's better to get them off the addicting taste additives pet food companies put in their stuff ASAP, that way you don't have an uphill battle later.

We can help you with finding sources for the organ meats.

Frankenprey isn't all that time-consuming. I have two cats that are both full raw, and I spend a few hours on one day a month cutting up their portions and freezing them in individual baggies. It helps to label the baggies before you start with their name, the date, and contents, including portion size.

All you really need for frankenprey is the meat, a good knife set and cutting board, and a set of scales.

Oh, and a raw feeding schedule for working people is certainly possible!! One member here, LDG, feeds her babies in the morning before work, again as soon as she gets home, and then a third time right before bed. (She is another great resource here for raw info!)

If you're worried about costs, here is the thread with the links to LDG's research that proves raw is the least expensive food to feed overall!! And that's before you factor in the reduced cost of vet trips, since raw fed kitties are much less likely to get things like diabetes and kidney disease.

I really urge you to try feeding them a piece of raw as soon as you can, I think you'll be quite surprised how fast they take to it. My kitten, Boots, ate part of a chicken bone the second time I fed him raw! They know what to do in their little heads, it's instinct. :nod:

Good luck!! And don't worry about questions, we all write novels when it comes to our kitties. :lol3:

 

[custardnsophie]

Thanks so much for your thoughtful reply . I will try giving them some raw meat tomorrow when I fix dinner. Best to start them before they can get set in their ways then! I am relieved to know there is a diet that doesn't require grinding bones - I can't afford a grinder...lol. One thing I do know is they both LOOOOOVE Stella and Chewy's, which is raw right only freeze dried? Little stinkers stole a sample from my purse and ripped the bag open to help themselves. So I am hoping that means they will like meat as well.

 

[speakhandsforme]

Thanks so much for your thoughtful reply . I will try giving them some raw meat tomorrow when I fix dinner. Best to start them before they can get set in their ways then! I am relieved to know there is a diet that doesn't require grinding bones - I can't afford a grinder...lol. One thing I do know is they both LOOOOOVE Stella and Chewy's, which is raw right only freeze dried? Little stinkers stole a sample from my purse and ripped the bag open to help themselves. So I am hoping that means they will like meat as well.

You're welcome! I'm glad to help any raw feeder that needs info. Other people here are waaaay more knowledgeable than me, I just happened to be the first one to reply! :lol3:

I've never used Stella and Chewy's but from what I understand from other threads, it's pretty much just freeze-dried meat. So if they like that, hopes are high they'll like raw!! :cross:

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Oh, I was looking at pix of your two new furbabies and I remember reading how the lil girl stole the Stella and Chewys!  Those two are adorable.  Just precious.  And they will probable really take to raw this early in their lives.  I am currently trying to convince my three that raw is the best thing for them, but they are older and are not that easily convinced. 

  I buy the frozen commercial ground nutritional meals right now, and am testing out a variety of brands and meats (rabbit, lamb, turkey, chicken, etc.)  Some commercial ground include everything, the protein meat, the organs, the ground bone or a calcium substitute and some also include additional vitamins and supplements.   I also use the freeze dried Stella and Chewy's for those days when my little beasties are being totally uncooperative and simply refuseto eat even their grain free canned food.  (I can usually tempt them to eat if I use S & Cs as a topper!) 

Anyway, here is a great resource thread.  It's got a TON of information:  http://www.thecatsite.com/t/240809/raw-feeding-resource-thread

As far as where to buy, lots of order via the internet.  You can even order the Frankenprey via the internet and get meats such as goat, ground mice (or whole), venison, rabbit, quail, the organs (hearts, livers, spleens) you know, the oddball stuff you won't find at the grocery store, along with the normal meats...chicken, beef,etc. .  And if you do buy at the grocery store, you should probably look for meat with no additives, especially sodium.  I think most folks who feed Frankenprey and buy from the grocery store try to buy organic, grass fed whenever possible, but cannot attest to that to a certainly.  (Lots of people feed raw...would you like me to have this thread moved to the Raw forum?)

We will be glad to help you with which internet places we think are the best for which products, etc.  Also, I think most of newbies started out right away giving our cats probiotics and digestive enzymes to help with the process.  Not sure how necessary that would be with kittens, since their systems haven't been too polluted yet

 

[ldg]

Hi and welcome to TCS! I agree with all of the above - there is no "too young" to feed raw!

I would include probiotics. Knowing what I do now, I would always use probiotics for all the cats on any diet. Feral cats eat whole prey - which includes the stomach and intestines, and so they get "probiotics" from their food. The diets we feed them have none, and I think they're important to help maintain GI health, which helps maintain overall health. The probiotics we use come from the heath food store - I just asked for the best acidophilus supplement - one with 10 billion active cultures. The one they suggested is acidophilus + bifidus, and it's refrigerated. I just sprinkle on one capsule to one meal a day. :nod:

As to feeding them... at 9 weeks, I think their little tummies need more than three meals a day, unless you're only gone 8 hours at most. I think the minimum they'd need is four meals a day. Do they share food well? Or is one more aggressive? Because you can leave out frozen raw for them - I'd feel more comfortable leaving out a commercial raw that's balanced for that one. But then it's there for them to eat when it's warmed up enough for them. My only concern would be that if one is more aggressive than the other, one kitty might not get to eat enough - or might not get to eat that meal. :dk:

If you're going to leave kibble out for them to feed on, please make it one that has no grains and as low-carb as possible. EVO is a good option. But grains get digested at a much slower rate than proteins, and when feeding raw, if there is any bacteria (a potential with raw meat, but even more of a potential with kibble, actually), the grain would slow it up and potentially cause some GI upset.

In this thread, FurryFriends50 discusses how she feeds kittens raw: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/243185/cowboy-is-going-to-try

And here is Mimosa's Raw Fed Kitten thread: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/242746/the-rawfed-kitten-thread

Please - ask away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[feralvr]

:lol3: That is too funny about the little darlin's stealing the S&C from your purse!! I think those are smart little kittens :nod: Let me say this, IF I ever bring in a kitten into my home, they will absolutely be started right off the bat with a raw diet, most likely FP. I feed commercially made raw to my cat's whom I have been working on transitioning for the past three month's, a slow process for some and super fast for other's. So I definitely would start out any new kitten on a raw diet from day one. I honestly think that many people are getting wise to feeding cats what nature meant them to eat - before kibbles came along in the fifties. I am hearing of more and more people switching their dogs and cats to a raw diet. The hardest part is getting the "older" pet eating raw meat who has been eating highly processed cooked kibbles forever. So starting them out as kittens, absolutely the way to go. :nod: OH WELCOME to TCS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :happy3:

 

[custardnsophie]

Okay well I gave them each a little tiny sliver of chicken liver raw and they both ate it without a problem, so I think they actually prefer raw to anything else. Its funny cause they were eating Purina Kitten Chow when they were with their mom. They won't touch kibble now and I have had them less than a week. I think with all that I have going on (I have 3 kids and pregnant and am a student as well) I would really be interested in this commercially prepared raw that I saw on catcentric. The only thing I have noticed at my pet supply store is Stella and Chewy's which is way too expensive ($27 for 16 oz) but I see there are other options that are a lot less expensive so I am going to ask them about the possibility of ordering some for me tomorrow. I hope they are able to. Oh and I do feed them 4 times a day because they are not able to fit that much in their tummies currently.

 

[ldg]

Where are you located? Because they're growing, they'll eat a lot. But if you have the freezer space, you may want to consider having frozen raw shipped.

The freeze dried raw foods are expensive to feed. :nod: But the frozen raw foods are MUCH less expensive (many of them less expensive than good canned food, in fact). I found a chest freezer on Craig's list for $35, and it was the best investment I made!!!

You can google "holistic pet store" for your area or county, and call around to see who sells frozen raw as well. Many carry Nature's Variety, and if so, they SHOULD be able to get Stella & Chewy's frozen (marketed for dogs, but appropriate for cats - its supplemented with taurine), or Bravo Balanced. Bravo and NV will be less expensive. Primal and S&C (Frozen) tend to be more expensive. But if you want to try a sample size, Nature's Menu has excellent food, not expensive, and shipping's not so bad.

You can also consider the Hare-Today (http://www.hare-today.com) ground mixes. THere is a LOT of variety to choose from, shipping is NOT expensive if you order a reasonable amount (depending on where you live - they're in Western PA), and if you order the Alnutrin supplement (also available on the site), you just mostly dethaw the ground meat/bone/organ mix, add the alnutrin and water, mix, and you've got a balanced food. This might be your cheapest option!

 

[feralvr]

I will also second the Hare Today ground meats. I just found out this week that my cat's love HT Goat, Pheasant and Quail. I am going to try their rabbit too in my next order. It is extremely reasonable and excellent quality meat. All you have to do is add in the supplement they supply you with. Very simple. Then I just weigh and repackage and refreeze. I think that HT just might be the cheapest option available for shipment of frozen raw.

 

[custardnsophie]

I live in Delaware, I am going to see what the pet supply can do for me because I have found they are better priced then even petfooddirect.com and I get a 10% discount being military. I have had them order other things for me but I'm not sure about frozen, but that is what I am interested in. If they can't then I will look at ordering. Thank you everyone for the advice and suggestions.

 

[custardnsophie]

I love my pet supply store! They are ordering me some Bravo Balance raw, so come next week we will be making the transition. Its amazing to me that I can feed them this for less than canned! I am starting with chicken but does anyone know which meats are also good for cats? The bravo product selection kind of confuses me, there are all these subsections; blends, basics, balance...but the labels for all of them show bone, meat and organ?

 

[speakhandsforme]

I love my pet supply store! They are ordering me some Bravo Balance raw, so come next week we will be making the transition. Its amazing to me that I can feed them this for less than canned! I am starting with chicken but does anyone know which meats are also good for cats? The bravo product selection kind of confuses me, there are all these subsections; blends, basics, balance...but the labels for all of them show bone, meat and organ?

Anything they will eat is good for them, imo. Currently mine eat:

--Beef, including tongue and intestines (aka green tripe)
--Chicken, including hearts and gizzards
--Pork
--Turkey
--Goat
--Beef kidney
--Chicken liver

If I could find lamb or rabbit, I'd give them that too.

 

[ldg]

Bravo Balance is the only one that is nutritionally complete. If they can order other brands, you may want to consider rotating not just proteins, but brands - at least one or two - just as you would with any kibble or canned.

I think the Bravo options in the Balanced Blends are somewhat limited. Chicken, beef, and turkey, I think?

If you added Nature's Variety to the rotation, you could add lamb, bison, and rabbit to the menu options. (The patties are cheaper to feed than the medallions).