Should I Give New Kitten Up?

[juju521]

I adopted a kitten (currently 13 weeks old) a month ago and went through the steps of a slow introduction with the resident cat (9 months old). The introduction got derailed due to a URI but restarted the process after he got better. I live in a one bedroom apartment and the kitten is in the bedroom while the resident cat is in the living room. I have a pet gate up currently and they are able to see each other and can eat within about 2 feet away from each other. The resident cat will come up and nose sniff/touch and try to play with the kitten's paws through the gate. The problem starts when I let the kitten out of the bedroom. As soon as he gets out he's greeted by the resident cat who wants to sniff him and take it slowly but he immediately jumps on or chases after the resident cat. They play fight for about 20-30 seconds before they start chasing each other around the apartment and ends with the resident cat in a corner growling and hissing. I'm usually able to detect the signs where the resident cat starts getting upset (ear flattening) and pick up the kitten to put him away before it ends in a disaster. Last night they played for about 40 seconds with biting/swatting/wrestling before the kitten started irritating the resident cat and before I could pick him up there was a huge chase which ended up with the resident cat growling/hissing/panting/hiding. After getting the cats in their respective rooms I noticed that the kitten scratched the resident cat right under the eye which is very upsetting. I know kittens are active and don't have boundaries with their play, but he just doesn't know when to stop even when the resident cat is giving off signs to stop. The resident cat just ends up scared and stressed (she's starting to develop signs of a URI herself) after all the crazy interactions with the kitten.

I have the kitten isolated in the bedroom and he desperately wants out with his constant crying at the door. I feel terrible cooping him up in there when he just wants to run around and play. I'm also gone at work about 10 hours out of the day during the week and try to divide my time equally between the two cats so they each only get about 2-3 hours of my time a day which isn't a lot for a growing, impressionable kitten. I just don't know how to get him to stop being so aggressive with his play. I feel like he's lonely and stressed being cooped up in the bedroom by himself all day, and my resident cat is stressed with the frantic interactions she's constantly being exposed to. I'm starting to think that the new kitten might not be a great personality match with my resident cat, and that he would be much happier with a family that can accommodate his personality. I want both to be happy and want what's best for them. I just am conflicted about what that may be. I realize a month isn't very long in the cat intro world but at what point do I call it and decide to permanently re-home the kitteN?

Sorry for the long post. I'm beside myself with stress about the situation and want to get any opinion I can.

 

[jen]

The fact that they play for a long while before she acts "stressed" is a good thing. She either just doesn't know how to end the play sessions (hissing and growling are perfectly ok and how she SHOULD be reacting if she isn't interested in play) or she is just so vocal about that is stresses YOU out. Is she eating, drinking, and ok when the kitten is behind the gate? I really don't think you have to worry about anything, just need to give them more time.

You could use Feliway spray or diffusers to calm them both a bit. But you are doing things right. You just need to stay calm when hissing and growling starts, calmly remove the kitten for a bit, and try again later. They sense your stress and get stressed themselves. Also remember that by hissing and growling, this is how cats communicate. It needs to happen so the little one learns the boundaries of the older cat. Also eventually they will need to establish who is dominant.

 

[She's a witch]

I agree with the above, especially that it seems from your description you have little reason to stress out. Instead, try the curious approach: you're observing very interesting interaction of two kittens of a super interesting species and how they learn to live together. It's truly exciting and fun to watch!

You say you interfere when you think things are starting to get serious, can you maybe post a video of such situation? I would actually risk leaving them to sort the situation on their own (personally I think it's be good idea if the older kitten get a little mad at the smaller one and swat him or something - the little one needs to learn to respect that older one doesn't want to play with him anymore).

The fact that they are separated means that the little one may be a bit overexcited with the short time he has a company and that's why he plays without any break. While you let them be together all the time, this should even out. he was separated from his mom and siblings too early and didn't have a chance to learn how to respect other cat's boundaries, but not worries, they will learn it from each other in no time. It can be noisy process, lots of growling and hissing, but as said above, it is all normal.

As for the scratch, make sure both cats have trimmed nails.

Good luck!

 

[Mamanyt1953]

It sounds as if the scratch was actually accidental. Yes, trim those nails! You can easily see the "quick" in a cat's claw, so trimming at home is certainly possible for most cats.

You really aren't doing that badly, and I have to tell you that a month is no time at all in the world of cat introductions. I've seen very successful introductions that took months, up to a year, to complete. You can only go as fast as the most reluctant cat.

Don't intervene too soon. I know it bothers you to see your older cat hiding, but what you are doing is removing the VERY active kitten before the older cats gets enough of a belly-full to reach out and pop him one. And that is NOT a fight, it is an older cat teaching a kitten his manners. It is what is SUPPOSED to happen in those circumstances. Let it. Every time you pull the kitten away, you actually run the risk of whittling away at your older cat's belief in their ability to handle it themselves, and I know you don't want that!

Also, let the older cat spend some time in the bedroom every day, with the kitten roaming free. This accomplishes two things. First, the scent of both cats is evenly spread throughout the apartment, so that all areas seem like "home territory" to both of them. Second, it allows the kitten to go crazy and explore the area without driving the older cat completely bonkers.

 

[kashmir64]

I agree with all the above.
Since the kitten is alone and in the bedroom most of the day, I would also play with the kitten using a wand toy for awhile and then letting them together. Then play with them together using the wand toy.
Kittens that age have a lot of energy and it sounds like it needs to be diffused before putting them together.
Also, as mentioned, let the older one set boundaries. The older one is not trying to kill the kitten, just teach him. As it should be.

 

[danteshuman]

I agree with the above.

My 10 month old kitten’s brother still growls when he has a favorite toy in his mouth and wants to play keep away! My kitten has learned this and sometimes growls when he plays with his brother.

I would tire out your kitten first, then feed your kitten before releasing the minion/kitten to play with your resident cat.

A month is no time. I think it will work out great. Allow your resident cat to discipline your kitten/teach the kitten manners.

 

[juju521]

Thank you all for the re-assurance! It's truly appreciated and the forums have been a great resource for me. I just got my first cat 5 months ago which is also the first time ever having a cat, so it's all new (and very weird) to me since I'm so used to dogs. Emmie the resident cat is eating fine and using her box, so I guess her stress levels aren't as high as I think they are. You guys are right. I'm probably more stressed out about it than they are, lol. Doesn't help that i'm a nervous person in general.

I have wand play sessions ad nauseum with the kitten. Nothing seems to tire that one out. We did have a breakthrough last night though! I let the kitten out and used a brand new wand toy to distract the kitten and the resident cat watched for ~4 minutes before the kitten turned his attention to the resident cat which of course ended up in the usual escalation in play fighting. I let them keep at it until it ended in an epic stare down between the two. I let the stare down proceed for about 30 seconds but got broken up anyways because of my extremely loud apartment buzzer going off for a delivery. I've read that stare downs are pre-cursors to an actual fight, so they should be broken up? Unfortunately, Emmie has symptoms of a cold, so I'll have to keep them separated again. Will post videos when she's better. Thanks again!!

 

[kashmir64]

I don't think a stare down is a pre-curser. Mine have stare downs all the time, and then get distracted and walk away.
It is a shame that Emmie is sick right when you have a breakthrough though. Quarantining her is almost a must.
Hope she gets better soon.

 

[Mamanyt1953]

IF the stare-down results in a fight, and it may very well NOT, then calmly walk over and place a large pillow or piece of cardboard between them, and use that to gently shepherd one away from the other. Separate them for a while, and try, try again!

 

[rudysparkie]

I am going through the same issues. I have a 4 months old kitten I got a few months ago, and just got another 8 weeks old. The resident kitten play attacks the 8 weeks kitten. It can lead to a disaster. I have to monitor all the time. The 4 months kitten bites pretty hard at the little ones neck and makes him scream. It's timeout multiple times while I am in the apartment. When I am out working, the one is in the bathroom and the other in bedroom. Is there is a solution to this? It's stresses me out after a hard days work.

 

[danteshuman]

Yes Rudysparkle , time. I would keep them separate without supervision for at least another month, probably two. My solution? I did the ‘my precious’ with the baby kittens. I would hover within a foot or two of the kitten and whenever things got a little rough I would separate the kittens. Because you have two kittens I would distract each kitten with a toy in each hand.

Take lots of pictures they grow up so fast!

 

[10009891]

There is nothing more beautiful than kittens. Already my 4 months kitten looks like an adult. He’s a Ragdoll. He was docile and quite now he’s become noisy, hostile, and anxious since I brought in the 8 weeks kitten.

 

[juju521]

Update. Emmie's cold symptoms were pretty mild and went away quickly (thankfully) although now one of her toes are really red and she's been limping a bit. I wonder if she got hurt from the crazy running around. I let Ryder (kitten) out with a kind of hands up whatever happens attitude while supervising their interaction. The video I uploaded starts off with what I think is Ryder being scared (tail proofed and backs arched) and ends with them play fighting. I also uploaded another video of them playing (I hope). They do this NONSTOP and with increasing intensity until both their tails are thrashing and fur flying everywhere. Yesterday I let them stay together for 30 minutes and it was the play shown in the video plus chasing the whole time. I separatrd them because Emmie was panting hard and would lie down to get herself together but Ryder just kept jumping on her. I just bought a bigger cat tree hoping to give Emmie her own space that Ryder can't access but he's all over it. I wish I could show Emmie that Ryder does calm down and actually sleeps but i guess that will come in time.

 

[juju521]

I am going through the same issues. I have a 4 months old kitten I got a few months ago, and just got another 8 weeks old. The resident kitten play attacks the 8 weeks kitten. It can lead to a disaster. I have to monitor all the time. The 4 months kitten bites pretty hard at the little ones neck and makes him scream. It's timeout multiple times while I am in the apartment. When I am out working, the one is in the bathroom and the other in bedroom. Is there is a solution to this? It's stresses me out after a hard days work.

I totally feel your stress. Some days I wished I could just stay at work longer.to avoid the situation. Didn't help that each cat would take turns meowing when I was in the other room. It's been a month of separation. And going back and forth for me. I never knew it would've this time consuming, but It seems like it just takes time. Hopefully things will take a turn for the better soon! Good luck!

 

[Jem]

Ryder being scared (tail proofed and backs arched)

Contrary to popular belief, that does not always mean angry or scared, especially with kittens as they learn "how to be a cat".
My cat gets all puffy when she's excited, super happy, stimulated and upset/scared.
Those play fights looked totally normal, and honestly, kinda tame, at least compared to my two boys. Sometimes it sounds like to elephants in a WWE wrestling match, with body slams and the whole bit. Then they tear thru the house at top speed, playing a rambunctious game a tag, with a few extra wrestling matches in between.

You're doing really well, they are doing really well, and they are on their way to being great friends. Once Ryder calms down a bit, and Emmie is able to put him in his place a few more times, things will start to even out. I would just keep trying to get more energy out of Ryder with play time with you, to give Emmie a break.

 

[juju521]

Contrary to popular belief, that does not always mean angry or scared, especially with kittens as they learn "how to be a cat".
My cat gets all puffy when she's excited, super happy, stimulated and upset/scared.
Those play fights looked totally normal, and honestly, kinda tame, at least compared to my two boys. Sometimes it sounds like to elephants in a WWE wrestling match, with body slams and the whole bit. Then they tear thru the house at top speed, playing a rambunctious game a tag, with a few extra wrestling matches in between.

You're doing really well, they are doing really well, and they are on their way to being great friends. Once Ryder calms down a bit, and Emmie is able to put him in his place a few more times, things will start to even out. I would just keep trying to get more energy out of Ryder with play time with you, to give Emmie a break.

Yea I was only to capture the tamer parts of the play. They have the same crazy wrestling, slamming each other, tearing through my apartment play sessions. They're too fast to capture on video lol. I was able to up the together time this morning to about 45 minutes and it was a game of chase back and forth. I'm definitely feeling better about it and trying to only bring him out when I know he's a bit tired to lessen the intensity for Emmie. On a even more positive note. Ryder got on Emmie's back and licked her head for a few seconds before Emmie was like get off of me and walked away. Thanks for the support

 

[epona]

I have 3 cats and 2 of them love one another and act like they are welded together - every so often they play really hard and get a bit rough, or they argue about who gets which sleeping spot (and the preferred sleeping spot changes regularly, I cannot keep up) but they smack one another and wail until the issue is resolved. This is normal friendly cat behaviour, and even though they sometimes argue or chase one another around, there is no blood or screaming or anything. Then they curl up together and go to sleep, sometimes they groom each other too, they are inseperable.

When introducing cats, you have to be wary and do it gradually, but don't mistake every disagreement as a fight to the death. Do keep a close eye on them, and do it very gradually.

EDIT: I don't know if you ever went on a car trip with siblings when you were a kid - but you know that thing that goes on where you argue constantly with a sibling about whether they are on "your" side of the car seat, and exactly where the boundary lies? But you'd still do anything for your sibling if they really needed it. A lot of friendly cat interactions are like that - some bickering to establish boundaries, then curling up together.

 

[kashmir64]

The fact that the striped one (Ryder?) plopped down and in the second video stayed down when the spotted one (Emma?) walked away is good. This meant that he was submissive and it was just play.
When my girls were that age, I heard this muffled scream and found the smaller ones head inside the bigger ones mouth. I yelled, she let go and all was fine. They are siblings and love each other, but used to play hard as kittens.
Based on these two videos, I saw nothing unusual. This was just play and they seem to get along. I have a feeling they will be inseparable soon.

 

[juju521]

I have 3 cats and 2 of them love one another and act like they are welded together - every so often they play really hard and get a bit rough, or they argue about who gets which sleeping spot (and the preferred sleeping spot changes regularly, I cannot keep up) but they smack one another and wail until the issue is resolved. This is normal friendly cat behaviour, and even though they sometimes argue or chase one another around, there is no blood or screaming or anything. Then they curl up together and go to sleep, sometimes they groom each other too, they are inseperable.

When introducing cats, you have to be wary and do it gradually, but don't mistake every disagreement as a fight to the death. Do keep a close eye on them, and do it very gradually.

EDIT: I don't know if you ever went on a car trip with siblings when you were a kid - but you know that thing that goes on where you argue constantly with a sibling about whether they are on "your" side of the car seat, and exactly where the boundary lies? But you'd still do anything for your sibling if they really needed it. A lot of friendly cat interactions are like that - some bickering to establish boundaries, then curling up together.

 

[epona]

I agree with the above, I have watched the videos and don't think there is too much to worry about - this is just how cats work out this territorial stuff between them, and there was no proper violence taking place, and no-one was bleeding afterwards.

I would hesitate about leaving them alone together unsupervised at this early stage, but I think over the long term they will be fine.