Shock Collar For Mean Cat

[Lionothed1k]

I am at my wits end...I have LOTS and lots of professional experience with difficult cat behavior. I was employed at my local Humane Society for three years where I specialized in working with feral and undersocial cats and older kittens to work on their behavior/social skills to make them more suitable for adoption. I was considered the best at this. And now I have a cat that I can't deal with. I moved in with my fiance almost a year ago. I have two cats - Apple and Cupid. Apple used to be feral. She came to me when she was about 6 - 8 months old, very sick and undersocial. I have spent the last two years working with her to gain her trust and getting her to come out of her shell. She was doing great. My fiance's cat, Liono, is horrible to her!! He is more than twice her size, and he full on attacks her whenever she comes down from the cat walk. No blood yet, but I find chunks of her fur on the floor after I hear a screaming cat fight. It's getting worse and worse. Liono no longer listens to me - now he stairs at me when I try to separate them, hisses at me and even swats if I reach out for him. I am in tears over knowing how terrible of a way this is for Apple to live. I hate the relationship I have with Liono. I don't believe that Liono has anxiety or is unhappy. I believe he is straight up preying on Apple who can barely even come down to use the litter box. I have heard about the kind of cat shock collars that don't require the owner to press a button. They work similar to a fence in that when the cat goes somewhere they're not supposed to they get shocked. I just want to put something on the cat walk to prevent Liono from going up there to attack Apple, so she can at least have that reprieve. Thoughts? Advice??? Thank you

 

[dahli6]

Have you tried a calming collar? I would go that route first. Because you worked in a Human Society you may have seen dogs with burns from shock collars. They can be so cruel and cats have a high tolerance to pain. Liono may also attribute the shock to Apple and attack her harder in retaliation.
I personally use an herbal collar from Petguard that markets at under $5 and I have had good results in cats who ranged from anxious to a bit hostile. I have seen no ill side effects. Sentry has a pheromone collar that they market as a calming collar. I don't know how well it works; online the price quoted is $5 but I think Petsmart sells it for twice that.

 

[di and bob]

Liono needs to be shut in a separate room for at least an hour when you are home to give Apple a break and a little piece. I agree she needs a space to call her own, the cat walk at least gives her that. Watch him carefully, and when he seems intent on attack, yell NO loudly and give him a 5 minute time out. Males will show dominance over a female and really, as long as there are no deep bites and scratches, and no blood, it IS more of a dominance thing rather then territory or hate. My bigger male jumps on his mother and his brothers many times a day, I yell no and then he stops, for a while. It sounds like they are killing each other but other than hair, no wounds. It is just his rambunctious personality. Your cat Liono thinks it is fun to do this, and it brings him satisfaction. Get a kickeroo on Amazon and throw it towards him when Apple wants to come down, it will keep him busy for a while, and give him something to kick and wrestle with other than her. Keep it refreshed by sprinkling cat nip on it in a plastic bag. Shake it off in the bag or you'll have a mess. He needs to be distracted from her. Try to feed them all together to foster good feelings, and hopefully he will be more intent on eating then stalking her. Give him a treat when he DOESN'T stalk/attack her, cats are quick to adjust actions to get a treat, make sure there is enough time after he attacks so he doesn't associate that action with the treat. Females usually do NOT want anything to do with others, eventually she will stand up for herself, my own little girl took about two years to do so, and the dynamics changed, all of a sudden they all gave her a wide berth. My little female now sounds like a banshee when she gets jumped on, she comes running to me. Apple needs lots of treats and affection so she gains some confidence. There are all kinds of personalities in cats, just like humans, and Liono has a confident, aggressive personality, but just like in humans he should not be allowed to bully her, and something unpleasant has to happen to make him stop, like time out in a silent room or displeasure from you, in the way of a loud NO, or the whack of a newspaper against your hand to get his attention. Keep us posted!

 

[ArtNJ]

I tried a shock collar for fighting cats years ago. It does not work well. Either it isn't positioned right and doesn't shock them, or it causes ulcers that can get infected and become a huge deal.

If you have already tried a proper and slow reintroduction (if not do so) then isolation may be the only solution. I disagree with Di and Bob a bit, because I assume you know what a real cat fight (not rough playing with one cat unhappy & anxious about it) sounds like given your background, and fur chunks ripped out is certainly a sign of that. My belief is that if you have real, not play, fights then the cats will not fix things on their own, and if a reintroduction doesn't work, isolation might be required. But some one here have much more experience. And I might be biased, because when I had real fights, I had a cat get bitten twice, and cat bites tend to get infected and lead to huge vet bills.

 

[MeganLLB]

I don't have much experience with cats and shock collars, but I do with dogs, and I know that they are two totally different animals, but I some things still may apply. Shock collars have to be used as a training tool. Negative reinforcement has to be followed up by instruction and positive reinforcement. I think this is hard to do with cats and cat shock collars don't really work that well.

 

[lavishsqualor]

Thoughts? Advice???

You want my thoughts? My advice? They would go something like this: Please do not do this. It's cruel and there are other, much more effective ways to get the desired result.

 

[betsygee]

Separation and a slow reintroduction are a good idea. So are calming collars. There are also calming treats and Feliway sprays and plug-ins. Have you ever used a Thunder Shirt on a cat? We had a cat who got in awful fights with one of our others. The Thunder Shirt didn't stop the fighting altogether but it helped slow down the aggressor.

How many litter boxes do you have? Can you set up one in a different location for Apple?

 

[Kieka]

I don't think a shock collar would achieve the desired result. Putting aside that cats have an extremely high pain tolerance and will accept pain as normal. Putting aside that you are forgetting that you are looking at a one sided solution and assuming your female won't go into his designated area. Putting aside that there is no guarantee that the male will even figure out that the shock is due to an action. And putting aside that it could make things worse. You still have the core underlying problem of the relationship between the two cats. It doesn't treat the problem, only the symptom.

The very first step is separating the two cats completely and utterly, with doors and barriers not electronic shock collars. Let them settle back down in their own territory and safety for a week or two. During that time you need to take a step back and look at the situation differently.

I know Apple is your baby but Liono is not being mean or hateful towards her. He is following his instincts and asserting dominance of his territory. You don't mention Cupid so I am guessing the problem isn't occurring with Cupid? There is a whole range of things I can assume from how you describe things. But what you need to do is fairly complex.

Its a two part thing of getting Liono to respect you (and you to respect him) and getting Apple to be more assured of herself. Liono is easier, start being the one to feed him each day and spend a few minutes playing with him. Do it during the two weeks of complete separation of the cats. For Apple, catify the home more so that she can't be cornered. Add in trees or shelves to open up the space and allow her different places to go. Not only for her to claim areas Liono isn't but also to make it so she isn't trapped by him. Also start playing with her more to get her more relaxed.

When it comes time to introduce them back together you want to do it very slowly. Start with site swapping and scent exchanges. Which essentially means switching cat beds and trees from one cats area to the other so they get used to the other scents. And switching who is staying in which area so they don't feel that one area is definitively their territory. When they do finally have face to face you want to do it very slowly too. With situations like this is is usually wiser to feed on either side of a screen for a few days and then slowly allow more and more direct access when supervised. If Liono looks like he is going for Apple then you break out a toy and redirect him to the toy.

Hopefully, with time you can get to the point where they can coexist together. I would strongly recommend checking out some My Cat From Hell episodes. This exact situation has come up several times. Also Jackson Galaxy's newest book has some helpful tips on behavior that you may benefit from.

 

[Neo_23]

A shock collar will not work. It will just make the cat more aggressive if anything. Cats don't respond to punishment. And it will also make you an abusive cat parent. Please find a more humane way to deal with this.

 

[Lionothed1k]

Have you tried a calming collar? I would go that route first. Because you worked in a Human Society you may have seen dogs with burns from shock collars. They can be so cruel and cats have a high tolerance to pain. Liono may also attribute the shock to Apple and attack her harder in retaliation.
I personally use an herbal collar from Petguard that markets at under $5 and I have had good results in cats who ranged from anxious to a bit hostile. I have seen no ill side effects. Sentry has a pheromone collar that they market as a calming collar. I don't know how well it works; online the price quoted is $5 but I think Petsmart sells it for twice that.

A friend of mine actually gave me a calming collar last night to try. I've been doubtful that it would work because like I said, Liono is not having anxiety, and he's really not all amped up. We put it on him last night and have not had any real issues since. I think it's still too soon to tell if it's helping. I sure hope it does because I really do not want to use a shock collar, and I don't know what else to do. Thank you so much for the advice <3

 

[Lionothed1k]

Liono needs to be shut in a separate room for at least an hour when you are home to give Apple a break and a little piece. I agree she needs a space to call her own, the cat walk at least gives her that. Watch him carefully, and when he seems intent on attack, yell NO loudly and give him a 5 minute time out. Males will show dominance over a female and really, as long as there are no deep bites and scratches, and no blood, it IS more of a dominance thing rather then territory or hate. My bigger male jumps on his mother and his brothers many times a day, I yell no and then he stops, for a while. It sounds like they are killing each other but other than hair, no wounds. It is just his rambunctious personality. Your cat Liono thinks it is fun to do this, and it brings him satisfaction. Get a kickeroo on Amazon and throw it towards him when Apple wants to come down, it will keep him busy for a while, and give him something to kick and wrestle with other than her. Keep it refreshed by sprinkling cat nip on it in a plastic bag. Shake it off in the bag or you'll have a mess. He needs to be distracted from her. Try to feed them all together to foster good feelings, and hopefully he will be more intent on eating then stalking her. Give him a treat when he DOESN'T stalk/attack her, cats are quick to adjust actions to get a treat, make sure there is enough time after he attacks so he doesn't associate that action with the treat. Females usually do NOT want anything to do with others, eventually she will stand up for herself, my own little girl took about two years to do so, and the dynamics changed, all of a sudden they all gave her a wide berth. My little female now sounds like a banshee when she gets jumped on, she comes running to me. Apple needs lots of treats and affection so she gains some confidence. There are all kinds of personalities in cats, just like humans, and Liono has a confident, aggressive personality, but just like in humans he should not be allowed to bully her, and something unpleasant has to happen to make him stop, like time out in a silent room or displeasure from you, in the way of a loud NO, or the whack of a newspaper against your hand to get his attention. Keep us posted!

Thanks so much for this thoughtful response. Liono actually does get put in time out when we can. Unfortunately we have a very small house (which I believe is a part of the problem) and the only rooms with doors are the one bedroom and bathroom. The bathroom is attached to the bedroom. So when he does this at night (which is mostly when he does, or maybe he does it when we're not home and we don't know) we really can't lock him up without him incessantly crying and keeping us up all night (typical orange tabby). I do yell NO...I think this is part of why he doesn't like me anymore. I am always yelling at him, and he doesn't listen to me anymore. I'm actually kind of worried about the day that Apple tries to do more than run away...she is very small (growth stunted from illness as a kitten) and Liono is very big, and insistent. If she tried to fight back, I believe that he would not back down and he would win. They do all eat side by side (except for lately, I've had to put Apple's food on the catwalk sometimes because she won't come down) but usually they are all right next to each other. The kickaroo with catnip is a good idea - I'll give that a try! Thanks again for the thoughtful advice.

 

[Lionothed1k]

I tried a shock collar for fighting cats years ago. It does not work well. Either it isn't positioned right and doesn't shock them, or it causes ulcers that can get infected and become a huge deal.

If you have already tried a proper and slow reintroduction (if not do so) then isolation may be the only solution. I disagree with Di and Bob a bit, because I assume you know what a real cat fight (not rough playing with one cat unhappy & anxious about it) sounds like given your background, and fur chunks ripped out is certainly a sign of that. My belief is that if you have real, not play, fights then the cats will not fix things on their own, and if a reintroduction doesn't work, isolation might be required. But some one here have much more experience. And I might be biased, because when I had real fights, I had a cat get bitten twice, and cat bites tend to get infected and lead to huge vet bills.

Can you explain what you mean by a proper reintroduction? We were very slow and careful when we first moved in together. I'm not really sure how we could do that all over again given that they already know each other. Plus as sweet and affectionate as Apple is, she still has her skittish and reactive feral tendencies...trying to force her to do anything usually leads to panic and blood. You are correct that this is not at all play, from either of the cats. I think Di and Bob might be right about the dominance thing. Thank you for your insight about the shock collar! I absolutely do not want to hurt Liono, and I certainly wouldn't want any more problems down the line because of it.

 

[Lionothed1k]

You want my thoughts? My advice? They would go something like this: Please do not do this. It's cruel and there are other, much more effective ways to get the desired result.

Thanks for you input, lavishsqualer. Some helpful and actually constructive advice would be specifics on what these other options that you speak of are.

 

[Lionothed1k]

I don't have much experience with cats and shock collars, but I do with dogs, and I know that they are two totally different animals, but I some things still may apply. Shock collars have to be used as a training tool. Negative reinforcement has to be followed up by instruction and positive reinforcement. I think this is hard to do with cats and cat shock collars don't really work that well.

Yes, that makes sense. And my thoughts about a shock collar for Liono weren't really about training, rather just making it so that Apple could have a safe space that Liono can not get to. So I am gathering that the shock collar is probably not a good option for him.

 

[Lionothed1k]

A shock collar will not work. It will just make the cat more aggressive if anything. Cats don't respond to punishment. And it will also make you an abusive cat parent. Please find a more humane way to deal with this.

Advice on a more humane way to deal with this? That is what I came to this forum for.

 

[Lionothed1k]

I don't think a shock collar would achieve the desired result. Putting aside that cats have an extremely high pain tolerance and will accept pain as normal. Putting aside that you are forgetting that you are looking at a one sided solution and assuming your female won't go into his designated area. Putting aside that there is no guarantee that the male will even figure out that the shock is due to an action. And putting aside that it could make things worse. You still have the core underlying problem of the relationship between the two cats. It doesn't treat the problem, only the symptom.

The very first step is separating the two cats completely and utterly, with doors and barriers not electronic shock collars. Let them settle back down in their own territory and safety for a week or two. During that time you need to take a step back and look at the situation differently.

I know Apple is your baby but Liono is not being mean or hateful towards her. He is following his instincts and asserting dominance of his territory. You don't mention Cupid so I am guessing the problem isn't occurring with Cupid? There is a whole range of things I can assume from how you describe things. But what you need to do is fairly complex.

Its a two part thing of getting Liono to respect you (and you to respect him) and getting Apple to be more assured of herself. Liono is easier, start being the one to feed him each day and spend a few minutes playing with him. Do it during the two weeks of complete separation of the cats. For Apple, catify the home more so that she can't be cornered. Add in trees or shelves to open up the space and allow her different places to go. Not only for her to claim areas Liono isn't but also to make it so she isn't trapped by him. Also start playing with her more to get her more relaxed.

When it comes time to introduce them back together you want to do it very slowly. Start with site swapping and scent exchanges. Which essentially means switching cat beds and trees from one cats area to the other so they get used to the other scents. And switching who is staying in which area so they don't feel that one area is definitively their territory. When they do finally have face to face you want to do it very slowly too. With situations like this is is usually wiser to feed on either side of a screen for a few days and then slowly allow more and more direct access when supervised. If Liono looks like he is going for Apple then you break out a toy and redirect him to the toy.

Hopefully, with time you can get to the point where they can coexist together. I would strongly recommend checking out some My Cat From Hell episodes. This exact situation has come up several times. Also Jackson Galaxy's newest book has some helpful tips on behavior that you may benefit from.

This is all great advice. Unfortunately, most of it is not possible in our 550 square foot home. The only rooms with doors are the one bedroom and the bathroom, and the bedroom barely even has room for our bed in it. I realize that the small space is most likely contributing to the problem...I would never have acquired this many cats in such a small space, but alas we both had our furry babies before we met each other, and he had just closed on this house about a month after we started dating. We have shelves, a catwalk that spans the length of two walls, two cat trees, three litter boxes, among other things. You are correct that Cupid is not a part of the problem at all. Liono does assert dominance over Cupid, but Cupid doesn't care. He gets annoyed sometimes, but he gets over it. Apple loves Cupid more than anyone/anything in the world. There are times when Cupid asserts dominance over Apple (mounts her) and she enjoys it... They currently all eat side by side without any issues. Liono doesn't bother her then. Lately there have been times when Apple won't come down to eat because she is afraid, but most of the time she does. It's hard to play with her and pet her when she hides in her cubby on the catwalk. When she comes down and approaches me I do make sure to give her some love. Playing is iffy because if she gets too excited, Liono attacks her. You are right about the shock collar only treating a symptom (if it even worked at all). It is a last resort thought for me, and thanks to the helpful responses on this forum (the actually constructive ones anyway) I feel that I have a few more things I can try, and cross my fingers! Thanks for your advice.

 

[Lionothed1k]

Separation and a slow reintroduction are a good idea. So are calming collars. There are also calming treats and Feliway sprays and plug-ins. Have you ever used a Thunder Shirt on a cat? We had a cat who got in awful fights with one of our others. The Thunder Shirt didn't stop the fighting altogether but it helped slow down the aggressor.

How many litter boxes do you have? Can you set up one in a different location for Apple?

Separation is unfortunately not possible in our house...it's very small, almost studio like. As I stated in a previous response, I realize that this is a part of the problem, and we only have this many cats in such a small house because we already had our cats before we met each other, and he closed on this house just after we started dating. We just put a calming collar on Liono last night. It's too soon to see if it's helping yet - fingers crossed! I've tried Feliway plug-ins, didn't work. I have not tried calming treats though. I'll have to try that next. I hadn't even thought of a Thunder Shirt! lol We might just have to give that a try for Liono if the calming collar doesn't work. Thanks! We have three litter boxes. They are all in the same area because, like I mentioned, the house is very small so there really isn't anywhere else they can go.

 

[ArtNJ]

You asked what is meant by a reintroduction but expressed some doubt because you did it properly the first time. Sometimes, things get crossed up between cats and anxiety builds and prevents things settling. An example would be one cat comes home from the vet and the other has a bad case of I-dont-recognize-you syndrome. If you try to wait it out, sometimes that works, and sometimes the fresh memories of the fights prevent working it out and can lead to escalation and continuing problems. So a fresh reintroduction is like a reset that clears out all the bad memories and allows you to start from scratch. Cats have short memories in some ways, and it can work well. Or not -- as you said -- the personality of your cats is the personality of the cats, and merely clearing away the memories may not help if the personalities clash.

Honestly, 550 sq ft apartment with 3 cats and fighting -- I feel for you truly. It might come to rehoming.

I don't know that it matters, except maybe as to which cat you need to focus on, but how do the fights start. Does Liono start out with true aggression, or is more a playful pounce that turns to real fighting after screaming protests from the anxious cat?

 

[dahli6]

A friend of mine actually gave me a calming collar last night to try. I've been doubtful that it would work because like I said, Liono is not having anxiety, and he's really not all amped up. We put it on him last night and have not had any real issues since. I think it's still too soon to tell if it's helping. I sure hope it does because I really do not want to use a shock collar, and I don't know what else to do. Thank you so much for the advice <3

A lot of times cats who attack easily are anxious. Anxious or playful but usually anxious.
Sometimes there is a matter that we don't think of as people. I have a few cats in my house who over-react to the presence of other cats and so they start fights. When they feel calm and safe they can stand other cats but otherwise they will be seemingly aggressive to a cat who is near them but ignoring them.
Apple may have done something subtle that Liono took as an aggression or a challenge and he never recovered from it.
I would observe their interactions closely and try to see if there is some sort of precursor to the attacks. A body language or something. Liono will give a physical cue before the actual attack, if you can recognize it then you can step between them before it happens and be an intermediary.

 

[di and bob]

My little Chrissy was the same way. She was 1/2 the size of the others and was bullied from day one. She spent almost a year in a bed on top of the fridge. Then one day about a year into it, she had enough and fought back. From that day forward they ALL gave her a wide berth. She growled, she hissed, she used her claws and none of them tried to bully her again, she was the QUEEN. There is hope it will all work out, cats have a way of doing everything in their own time and their own way. Your little family will have it's spats and downright fights, but in time it will work out.