Second cat, please advise!

[Valerian]

I adopted a 8mo female from a shelter about 2 months ago (Baby) (she is 10 m now). And she's adapted nicely. She's a bit of a firecracker and very vocal.

I've adopted a second cat yesterday - he is 8 mo (Zack).
They are both fixed.

He has been staying in 1 room (a bedroom) where he has his food, water, toys, litterbox and scratching post.
He seems really calm and chikled out. He's not very vocal.

I've brushed Zack yesterday and since he was shedding heavily I gathered a handful of his fur.

I'm not sure if I made a mistake but I gave that handful of fur to Baby to snif. She sniffed the fur and rhen hissed, after thqt she puffed up soo bad and got in an aggressive pose (arched back, tilted head, ears back, eyes wide open...)...it took a while for her to calm down.
I thought by giving her his fur to sniff and same time give her treats, she would associate him with positive things..

Then when we switched rooms she walked in his room slowly, tail down, hissing here and there..
Is this normal or is this an indicator she will never accept him?..

He hasn't had any issues whatsoever for now (it's morning the next days now), he was happy to explore the rest of the apartment and seems happy even when in his base camp.

The only problem is Baby, she doesnt like Zack's scent at all. I've tried feeding them on each sode of the door, and she eats but I think she didn't even suspect there was a cat on the other side.

Now when I give her his fur to smell, she still hisses, but doesn't puff up or not as mich (she is still puffy and walks slowly and low while exploring his base camp)...

Any and all advice please!

I adopted a 8mo female from a shelter about 2 months ago (Baby) (she is 10 m now). And she's adapted nicely. She's a bit of a firecracker and very vocal.

I've adopted a second cat yesterday - he is 8 mo (Zack).
They are both fixed.

He has been staying in 1 room (a bedroom) where he has his food, water, toys, litterbox and scratching post.
He seems really calm and chikled out. He's not very vocal.

I've brushed Zack yesterday and since he was shedding heavily I gathered a handful of his fur.

I'm not sure if I made a mistake but I gave that handful of fur to Baby to snif. She sniffed the fur and rhen hissed, after thqt she puffed up soo bad and got in an aggressive pose (arched back, tilted head, ears back, eyes wide open...)...it took a while for her to calm down.
I thought by giving her his fur to sniff and same time give her treats, she would associate him with positive things..

Then when we switched rooms she walked in his room slowly, tail down, hissing here and there..
Is this normal or is this an indicator she will never accept him?..

He hasn't had any issues whatsoever for now (it's morning the next days now), he was happy to explore the rest of the apartment and seems happy even when in his base camp.

The only problem is Baby, she doesnt like Zack's scent at all. I've tried feeding them on each sode of the door, and she eats but I think she didn't even suspect there was a cat on the other side.

Now when I give her his fur to smell, she still hisses, but doesn't puff up or not as mich (she is still puffy and walks slowly and low while exploring his base camp)...

Any and all advice please!

P.s. The shelter gave us 1 week for trial before adopting or returning him. With the option to prolonge up to 2 weeks max...

Update

Maybe I shouldn't have given the RC a handful of NC's fur to sniff? Maybe she got freaked out by the ball of fur?

So I took 2 fresh socks and rubed each of the kitties around the snout area, back and tailbone, paws, and exchanged the socks + I exchanged their doughnut sleeping beds.
And this time there was no hissing from the RC, just a lot of sniffing. She even went into the doughnut and layed there for 5 minutes (no puffiness, or hissing, just relaxed kittie).
Same with the NC, he rubbed agains the sock and also got into the doughnut to lay there
I'm gonna take this as a good sign and keep at it in slow pace. I'm also going to hide away all the furrbals from the NC so the RC doesn't get overwhelmed.

I'll be posting updates if anyone is watching

 

[Furballsmom]

Hi!

Is this normal

This is very normal. You did the exact right thing with the socks, good for you! As you've mentioned, patience is your friend in this

 

[Alldara]

Very normal and good work all around! It's normal to be hiss-y when first sniffing around the room.
Keep it up with intros and go at Baby's pace. Don't rush her and they will build a good bond

 

[Valerian]

Update2 (Day 2, evening):

I'm currently site swaping them.

I transferred the NC to the bathroom while letting the RC enter his basecamp. She again started hissing (especially near his cardboard box),low tail and low and slowly walking. I took a feather on a stick and started to animate her a bit. She went outside of basecamp and just sat at the open door. So I slowly warmed her up with the feather to come in and play. She started playing by hiding under the bed and poking out from beneath the cover that was hanging over to catch the feather. Then I gradually lured her closer to the cardboard box and eventually, she didn't hiss near the box anymore (I also put a bowl of kibble there, but she didn't eat from it. She did it the few kibbles that were left in the NC's bowl though). I also tried to make her chase the kibbles over the room, but she only ended up eating 2 or 3 and she didn't eat the kibbles out of the bowl. When I saw she was fairly ok with being in the basecamp(cca after 10min), I closed the door and played with her further, while another person let the NC out of the bathroom to explore the rest of the apartment and played with him and also petted him and "smeared his scent over the furniture" by petting the cat and then the furniture
After a while (maybe another 10 or 15 min), she had enough, so we made the swap again without them meeting.
When the RC left the basecamp and walked into the living room, she again puffed up and hissed after sniffing the chair where the NC was also playing :/..

And there I thought the hissing was over when she overcame the cardboard box in the base camp...
Oh well...it's only been cca 28h..

Thank you Furballsmom and A Alldara for all your advice, reassurance and support, I really appreciate it!

P.s. thanks to the moderator who combined my replies to my own OP, since I couldn't edit the OP myself

Edit:
dissregard the following question, I jist got my answer
Pp.s. when will I be able to edit my posts? Or is this not possible on this forum? (I did read the rules but can't remember reading about this)

 

[Alldara]

It's going great! Keep at it

 

[ArtNJ]

Two cats this age, its almost certainly going to be fine in time. The odds are ever in your favor.

 

[Valerian]

Update 3 (Day 3, noon):

I did the site swap again..
RC still dislikes coming into NC's basecamp. I never force her to stay inside, she just walks around all cautious and low..I gave her NC's toy mouse to smell while giving her a snack, but she hissed at it (could be because it looks like her mouse, but smells different? Or it could just be that she doesn't like NC's scent? :/.. she has this weird thing where she even hisses whenever she plays with a mouse and that toy comes in close proximity to another of her toy mice - this was happening before NC ever arrived).

I played with her, RC, at the basecamp a bit..I don't think she puffs up anymore, but if far from relaxed in that room, apart from when we're playing and she'shiding under the bed to catch the feather). She always eats all of the NC's kibbles out of his bowl - is this a good sign, or is she intentionally eating his "resources "?...

I've noticed she ,rc, gets startled easily by random noise when back at her place (like she's anticipating another cat will walk around the corner)...

Am I rushing things?

She also walks around the apartment with her tail down after the exchanges..she needs some time to het back to her usual self afyer the sote swapping.
In the morning, she was bubbly and running around like nothing had ever happened, before the swapping.. I know it's only been 3 days but I'm kindof getting the feeling she's one of those cats that's just too territorial with a strong character and will never accept him, or if she does she won't be a happy cat anymore I would never want that for her...Is it too soon to tell?
Because he, NC, acts very differently from her - he doesn't seem cautious when roaming around the apartment and I don't think he's bothered by her scent either.

He even plays with her toys when I do the exchanges - should I not allow this and take away the toys when swapping them?

I feel so discouraged because I see a massive difference in their behaviour towards each other. He(NC) seems more willing to accept her (not bothered by her scent) and seems always energetic and happy, never hisses or walks low..while she's (RC) the exact opposite...

I'm so confused....Am I giving up too quickly? The shelter gave us only 1 week (+ 1 week to extend) to let them know whether they are a match and we're keeping him or not

Edit: If anyone's had a similar situation with their cats please let me know how it went and ended up

 

[ArtNJ]

While its not great that your getting a strong reaction to site swapping, its not so bad either. The expected course is some growling and hissing for some number of days followed by friendship. Given the ages, its very unlikely you'll have real lasting problems.

The only real wrinkle here is that a one week tryout is not very generous. If we want to take that seriously, then I put them together by day 5 and see what happens. As long as they dont actually fight, your golden and they will eventually work things out, potentially after some growling and hissing, maybe even a "get away from me" swat or two, for a few days.

A case could be made for ignoring the week tryout if site swapping is still producing tension at day 5, and just continuing at a casual pace. Because with cats at this age, I'm just not too worried that it wont work out, even if they need a bit more time. Then again, putting them together to "take the temperature" and see if they will actually fight is not unreaonable, especially if you have two people handy so you could immediately stop any fight. Have a towel handy to grab a cat, just in case. So lets wait and see what things look like at day and make the decision about altering the pace of the intro, or at least taking the temperature in a face to face interaction, then.

 

[Valerian]

While its not great that your getting a stron reaction to site swapping, its not so bad either. The expected course is some growling and hissing for some number of days followed by friendship. Given the ages, its very unlikely you'll have real lasting problems.

Oh no ..
So usually site swaping isn't such a big dela like it is to my resident cat?..

The only real wrinkle here is that a one week tryout is not very generous. If we want to take that seriously, then I put them together by day 5 and see what happens. As long as they dont actually fight, your golden and they will eventually work things out, potentially after some growling and hissing, maybe even a "get away from me" swat or two, for a few days.

Ja, I know, it's awful, and I'd never want to rush either of them because I don't want to put them under so much stress...
I'll have to see how much we progress in site swaping in 2 weeks.

But other than getting a strong reaction out of my resident cat to site swaping,

Is there anything I could be doing differently / better?

Thank you a lot!

P.s. their ages are probably estimates since they were found. I'm bot sure up untill which month a cat's age can be predicted accurately

 

[ArtNJ]

Cats under a year have a very high chance of ultimately becoming friends so a month here or there doesn't matter. As far as scent swapping, its no kind of big deal your getting a reaction 3 days in. Especially since its not an over the top reaction, like attacking the human, peeing everywhere etc. I just meant the self-evident fact that it would be better not to have the reaction, and it may indicate that you might need more time. But its only day 3.

As far as what else to do, I tend to believe that if you can put a gate up, so that they have visual access 24/7, thats just so much easier and more natural than forcibly relocating them. With a gate up they get sight and scent. So I view scent swapping as a normally short step, just to make sure your not have a really bad reaction to scent alone. And it doesn't sound like you are. The only problem is that young cats tend to be able to jump over a standard baby gate.

 

[Valerian]

Cats under a year have a very high chance of ultimately becoming friends so a month here or there doesn't matter. As far as scent swapping, its no kind of big deal your getting a reaction 3 days in. Especially since its not an over the top reaction, like attacking the human, peeing everywhere etc. I just meant the self-evident fact that it would be better not to have the reaction, and it may indicate that you might need more time. But its only day 3.

As far as what else to do, I tend to believe that if you can put a gate up, so that they have visual access 24/7, thats just so much easier and more natural than forcibly relocating them. With a gate up they get sight and scent. So I view scent swapping as a normally short step, just to make sure your not have a really bad reaction to scent alone. And it doesn't sound like you are. The only problem is that young cats tend to be able to jump over a standard baby gate.

Thank you so so much!

I actually have made a screen door muself a few years ago with 5 wooden erm..plies? And a fairly dense, strong plastic mesh.

My sister brought home her cat when she moved back and her cat was a male about 8 yo, our resident was about 10 yo, also male. Both neutered, but my sisters cat marked all over the place..
they were fine by seeing each other through the doors eventually (or mostly fine), but when I opened the door, they initially sniffed noses and went about their ways, but then ran into each other in the hallway and the new cat (the one that was marking) ended up chasing our resident cat and would not allow him to enter the living room etc eventually the resident cat fought back and there were fights ..
So they never got along and I ended up taking her cat. Amd the resident cat stayed with my parents ...

Anyway..I was planning on getting that mesh door I made and fixing it up on the room where NC is now. But I was thinking that's not going to be soon..
I'm just going to wait untill there will be no more hissing from my RC.
At least a week.. I really, really wish it works out this time, I love both of them so much

Edit: the door covered everything so they wouldn't be able to climb to the other side

 

[Hellenww]

You could also have the door open a little for visuals. Sometimes being able to see the mystery smell makes it less scary.

 

[catdad61]

This is more for your benefit than your cats but;

Put yourself in their position. The landlord of your apartment just raised the rent and you need to get a roommate to make up the difference. How long would it take to establish boundaries, set up household rules and generally get comfortable with them? And we, as humans, have the advantage of spoken language to help.

Also keep in mind that there could be external factors that we aren't aware of affecting their moods. For example, a strange animal in the neighborhood that they can smell but we can't. So now both cats are already 'on alert' and they react more aggressively to each other today than yesterday when you are doing the exact same thing. And now you're left wondering what you did different to cause the change when it wasn't anything you did, and they can't tell you that.

My wife and I have an introduction where after a few weeks the cats were buddies, and one where after months they would just tolerate being on the same planet as the other.

The only advice that I can offer is the same as I gave my daughter after the birth of her son and she was suffering from post-partum depression. You can see the light at the end of the tunnel, you just don't know how far away it is. But with every step you're getting closer.
Hang in there, you can do it.

 

[Alldara]

Valerian It's a bit early to bee discouraged! It's only Day 3, so of course she's still puffy and hissing.

The shelter isn't doing justice by only giving 1 week to return but that's a really normal timeline. However, cat introductions take a minimum of 2 weeks to 1 year (from first sniff to full integration).

That being said, with what you're describing I don't see any reason why they wouldn't fully integrate. That's exactly how my late cat Nobel would react to site swaps and he was just considered a "slow-to-warm" cat.

If she isn't bouncing back after the sessions, then you are going a bit fast for her. So she won't be ready to progress yet! Try taking a cloth with her smell and rubbing it on the new cats room before you take her in. It will feel more hers.

Also keep talking to her happily about her new friend and the fun they will have. Tell her his her friend's smell and that she is safe. The power of words with your animals goes a long way!

There's loads of introduction posts too that you can read that will really help you get creative.

Just remember, slow, slow slow. Most intros can be fixed if rolled back and taken at the cat's pace.

 

[Alldara]

Personally, I didn't do a lot of scent swapping and just went straight to the baby gate. Then I just sit at the baby gate and give treats and play with them.

Magnus wasnt reactive so I basically just gave Nobel a treat every time he looked at Magnus. Even if he hissed.

I used a paper straw to play with them under the gate and let them play footsies and hiss. (Though I did this under the door first with no sight)

I'd also rub a treat on Magnus's cheek and then give it to Nobel. (Giving Magnus a different one of course)

We just used a different brand of senior (so low calorie) dry food as treats during this time.

 

[Valerian]

Valerian It's a bit early to bee discouraged! It's only Day 3, so of course she's still puffy and hissing.

The shelter isn't doing justice by only giving 1 week to return but that's a really normal timeline. However, cat introductions take a minimum of 2 weeks to 1 year (from first sniff to full integration).

That being said, with what you're describing I don't see any reason why they wouldn't fully integrate. That's exactly how my late cat Nobel would react to site swaps and he was just considered a "slow-to-warm" cat.

If she isn't bouncing back after the sessions, then you are going a bit fast for her. So she won't be ready to progress yet! Try taking a cloth with her smell and rubbing it on the new cats room before you take her in. It will feel more hers.

Also keep talking to her happily about her new friend and the fun they will have. Tell her his her friend's smell and that she is safe. The power of words with your animals goes a long way!

There's loads of introduction posts too that you can read that will really help you get creative.

Just remember, slow, slow slow. Most intros can be fixed if rolled back and taken at the cat's pace.

Thank you for sharing!

Also keep talking to her happily about her new friend and the fun they will have. Tell her his her friend's smell and that she is safe. The power of words with your animals goes a long way!

Haha, thisbis actually how I always talk to my cats, like they understand me perfectly

Btw, just a while ago I was in the room with the Nc, and my sister was on the other side of the door. When RC approached the door, my sister removed the shoes that were previously somewhat blocking their way to smell under the door.
And so they started sniffing under the door (no loud sniffs luckily) and RC hissed a few times, but she didn't puff up.
NC didn't hiss back luckily, he just kept sniffing calmly under the door I'm taking this as a really good sign for day 3.
After he was finished sniffing his posture looked nice. I'm so glad at least one of them is taking this better.
He, the NC is also twice as big as RC, even though he is supposedly 2 months younger x) so I'm guessing the fact that the non reactive cat is bigger is also good x)

 

[Valerian]

This is more for your benefit than your cats but;

Put yourself in their position. The landlord of your apartment just raised the rent and you need to get a roommate to make up the difference. How long would it take to establish boundaries, set up household rules and generally get comfortable with them? And we, as humans, have the advantage of spoken language to help.

Also keep in mind that there could be external factors that we aren't aware of affecting their moods. For example, a strange animal in the neighborhood that they can smell but we can't. So now both cats are already 'on alert' and they react more aggressively to each other today than yesterday when you are doing the exact same thing. And now you're left wondering what you did different to cause the change when it wasn't anything you did, and they can't tell you that.

My wife and I have an introduction where after a few weeks the cats were buddies, and one where after months they would just tolerate being on the same planet as the other.

The only advice that I can offer is the same as I gave my daughter after the birth of her son and she was suffering from post-partum depression. You can see the light at the end of the tunnel, you just don't know how far away it is. But with every step you're getting closer.
Hang in there, you can do it.

I understand what you are saying. And the fact that I wanted to get a second cat to keep the resident cat company makes me think I wasn't thinking straight..

I really do hope my to become friends and not just tolerate each other, I live in a 50 m² apartment...

And thank ypu for sharing your wise thought you also said to your daughter.
I will keep this in mind even for other tough situations in my life. It is a very positive and powerful thought. Thank you so much!

 

[Alldara]

He, the NC is also twice as big as RC, even though he is supposedly 2 months younger x) so I'm guessing the fact that the non reactive cat is bigger is also good x)

Very much so. Though there might be a few times when they are playing later that he gets too rough. That's normal for boys. My boys' relationship always bounces back quickly.

 

[Caspers Human]

I just went through an introduction, myself. It sounds like you're doing it right, to me.

Here's how we did it:

New cat gets put in a room, behind closed doors. Old cat gets run of the house but make sure that old cat has a place of her own where the new cat can't go. Leave things be for at least a couple of days. When you think the time is right, put the old cat in her room and let the new cat out. At first, just for an hour or two then put the new cat back in and let the old cat out. When you let the old cat out, notice how she reacts when she finds the places where the new cat went. (She'll be able to smell the new cat's scent trail.) Put some catnip in those places where you see the old cat reacting to the new cat's scent. Repeat that a couple of times then, on the next time, put the old cat in the new cat's room. Add catnip where you think necessary. Repeat this exercise a couple of times. When you think both cats are calm enough swapping rooms, you can go on to the next stage.

Let both cats out but keep a close watch on them. There will probably be some hissing, growling and swatting from one or both cats. That's okay. It's normal. Just don't allow any biting or anything like that. If they go too far, clap your hands and say, "Be NICE!" If they don't listen, give them one more clap and one more holler. If they still don't listen, send them back to their rooms. (Both of them.)

If they actually start fighting and you can't stop them by hollering, use the straw end of a broom to separate them. It would help to have a pair of leather "construction worker" gloves on hand, in case you need to physically separate them. A heavyweight hunting jacket or construction worker's jacket would be good to have, too.

Anyhow, let the cats out, together, for up to an hour at a time then put the new cat back in. Repeat a couple times until you feel confident that the cats can be together while you supervise them. When you think the time is right, let them out full time but separate them when you go to bed or leave the house. As you feel more confident with them being together, let them both out while you go to sleep but put them in when you leave the house. Watch them to see how well they get along until you decide that they can be out full-time.

If, at any time, the cats fight or get too pissy with each other, separate them again and start from the beginning.

This whole process will take, at least, a couple of weeks. Maybe a month or more, depending on the cats. There isn't a set schedule. Think of it more like "landmarks." When they get to one stage of living with each other, move to the next stage. Do it gradually but always keep the option open to go back to the start.

Anyway, that's how we introduced our two cats. It looks like you're using a similar process. I'm just explaining how we did it so you can compare. As long as everything is going well, keep doing what you've been doing.

Some other things we do:

Always give both cats the same amount of petting, food and general attention. You don't want to give the new cat the idea that he's being favored and you don't want the old cat to feel like she's not important, any more. Think of them as you would a couple of two year old kids. Always treat them equally.

Along those lines, try to make sure you give them equal access to food and water. It's probably best to feed them in different places until they learn to get along with each other. In the process, try to make sure that one cat doesn't hog the other cat's food.

Same goes for litter boxes. Each cat should have their own box, located in different places, at least until they get used to each other. They might try to use each other's boxes but that's okay as long as one cat doesn't dominate.

It's also good to make sure that each cat has their own toys and supply of catnip... lots of catnip! After a while, they can share toys. It's a good way for them to get used to each other's scent. Catnip is good because it associates something they like with the presence of another cat. You want both cats to have good associations.

Another trick is, whenever we went in to look after the new cat in his room, I made sure to go pet the old cat and pay attention to her, first. Tell her that she's still the "Top Cat" in your hearts and that you love her just the same. It might seem weird but try to actually say it to her. Cats might not understand human speech but they do understand certain key words and they pick up on your tone of voice. Verbal reassurances are important! Then, after you have seen the new cat, go back and pet the old cat and reassure her some more. The idea is that you want each cat to smell the other's scent on your person. They are going to have to get used to it, eventually. You might as well start getting them used to it gradually.

Once you let the cats out, together, full-time, set limits on their behavior. Our limits are that hissing, growling and swatting are okay and the cats are allowed to chase each other and wrestle but biting is off limits. If you see them do it, say, "Be nice!" or "No bite!" If they don't listen, clap your hands or stomp your feet and holler, "NO!" (Except for emergencies, that's about the harshest punishment we ever give our cats.) If hollering doesn't work, physically separate them and send them each to their respective rooms. No favoritism! Both cats get a "time out."

Like I said, there isn't a set timeline for introducing cats. It's all about watching each cat's behavior and moving accordingly. Try to treat each cat equally. Don't move to the next step until you think that both cats are comfortable with the previous. It could take days, weeks or even months. In my experience, it takes about two weeks.

We just introduced two cats and we're in our third week. Everything is going well. They are both out all day and they haven't had anything more than a minor scuffle, which we allow as long as there is no biting. I've only had to holler at them one time, since we let them out and they both obeyed, immediately.

Keep doing what you have been doing. It sounds like you're doing it right. Just keep an eye out and adjust the situation as need be.

Hang in there and I'm sure your cats will become friends, soon!

BTW: Jackson Galaxy says that most cats should have a " cat buddy" to live with. Although many people think cats are solitary, they are really semi-social. They'll live together in groups as long as each can have their own space when they want. Stimulation and companionship are good for cats. Jackson Galaxy says that most cats are happier with a cat buddy.

 

[arr]

It’s unfortunate the shelter gave you a one week timeline. Anybody who knows cats knows that one week isn’t enough time to fully integrate a new cat. Is there any way you could speak to them about getting an extension? I think if you didn’t feel so much pressure, you could relax a little and just take it at the cats pace.

Just to give you a little perspective, we had to reintroduce our cat to his mom and sister after a vet visit, because they didn’t recognize his smell anymore. We are talking about cats related to each other who have been living together for three years and whose scents are all over the house. It took 18 days, and there are other people in this position where it has taken 3 weeks, 4 weeks, or months. So certainly, introducing a brand new cat is going to take awhile. Three days is literally no time. In fact, it’s often encouraged to keep the new cat in base camp for a full week, letting him settle down and get comfortable, before even beginning the introduction.

So don’t lose hope, your cats are young, they will come together, you just need a lot more time.