Sassy - 17yr Old Cat - Appetite Issue (early Ckd)

[Furballsmom]

I mean i guess all I've done was to hang in there, and she would turn around in due time to eat...

Keeping my fingers crossed!!

 

[MissClouseau]

As I've asked in the past, or questioned, is Ultrasound really needed? Like, what could it be that makes her bit ill

Did you ask this question to the vet? When they brought up ultrasound for my cat one of the things they suspect(ed) was gallstones or biliary sand. Neither always gives out a symptom and treatment isn’t a must if the symptoms aren’t disturbing the cat but sometimes surgery needed to remove the stone or a medicine. The suspicion was based on bloodwork, abnormal liver levels to be exact.
Worth to ask the vet what they want to check. Also they didn’t mention anesthesia for ultrasound to me if the cat isn’t being aggressive. They use anesthesia for endoscopy though, did the vet say endoscopy and not ultrasound?

 

[miguel99nyc]

Keeping my fingers crossed!!

Oh also, is it ok that my cat would eat...at least something though very little, then better then nothing? I always hesitate to giver her mirtazapine because although its at its weakest sliced dosage (1mg) it still makes her VERY vocal and restless. I know many say its normal, it's not torturing her but I hoped there would be an alternative or weaker for but Vet said that is the smallest/weakest form of the mirtazapine. So I tend to hold off until she comes around.

Im wondering if the throw up of water last night immediately after drinking, and the food that was in that vomit is the culprit of her not being too hungry this morning and her drooling/not accepting the Cerenia?

 

[miguel99nyc]

Did you ask this question to the vet? When they brought up ultrasound for my cat one of the things they suspect(ed) was gallstones or biliary sand. Neither always gives out a symptom and treatment isn’t a must if the symptoms aren’t disturbing the cat but sometimes surgery needed to remove the stone or a medicine. The suspicion was based on bloodwork, abnormal liver levels to be exact.
Worth to ask the vet what they want to check. Also they didn’t mention anesthesia for ultrasound to me if the cat isn’t being aggressive. They use anesthesia for endoscopy though, did the vet say endoscopy and not ultrasound?

Thank you for the reply.

Question as to the issue of her not eating? I did email him an hour ago or so see what his thoughts were, because I must have brought in Sassy over the past 2 years for same reason, diminished appetite only to do the same exact tests, xrays bloodwork and all come out normal. Even her kidney values have although gone up ever so slightly, still in normal range. So 2 different vet locations (2nd opinion) recommended ultrasound becaue they didnt have "Definitive diagnosis". Ive always found it was way for them to get money because they said if ultrasound comes normal, then "it would depend on how much I want them to investigate this issue" such as doing endoscopy, taking samples, etc. I just can't imagine doing ALL of that just for an appetite issue that seems to resolve over time...

And yes, they said she needs to be put sleep for it as she is very agreesive when vet touch her. He even mentioned there's always a slight risk because of her kidneys but said she would be ok, but I can't take that chance.

Oddly enough, she actually had similar appetite issue YEARS ago before she was diagnosed with early CKD, took her to ANOTHER vet initially as they were closer to us, I think they did like a senior blood work on her and all was normal, and all they did was give her few injections, then she was fine in days to come. That vet said, because shes bit chubby (11lbs), she would be fine not eating for a day as she had some meat - which I thought was bit odd to say...but regardless, she began to eat fine day after or so.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Because the vet(s) have not found anything through all the previous tests to help determine her intermittent diminished appetite and eating issues, an ultrasound would seem to me to be the most likely next step. An ultrasound can be extremely useful for detecting changes in the shape, size, tissue density, internal structure, and position of organs - any of which might help to shed light on the problem. For example, they look for changes in the intestines for cats who have symptoms of IBD - so, perhaps in Sassy's case, they are looking for tissue changes in her stomach/esophagus that might indicate a hiatal hernia or other reflux related conditions. Some of these types of problems don't have to be ongoing but can occur intermittently to due certain foods and/or stress, for example. Even something like indigestion can cause stomach upset and lack of appetite.

If you don't want the ultrasound, I would suggest you continue to administer the meds - at least the Cerenia and Famotidine - you've been given by the vet on whatever schedule he has recommended, since they seem to help control her symptoms and get her back to eating and feeling better. And, ask the vet about a compounded version of the Cerenia that would change the taste and/or allow it to be administered via a liquid instead of a pill. There might be other ways of compounding it as well.

As long as she eats at least some of her food for a few days when she is having one of these episodes and then resumes eating pretty normally after the meds are given, I wouldn't get too worried about it.

 

[miguel99nyc]

Because the vet(s) have not found anything through all the previous tests to help determine her intermittent diminished appetite and eating issues, an ultrasound would seem to me to be the most likely next step. An abdominal ultrasound can be extremely useful for detecting changes in the shape, size, tissue density, internal structure, and position of organs - any of which might help to shed light on the problem. For example, they look for changes in the intestines for cats who have symptoms of IBD - so, perhaps in Sassy's case, they are looking for tissue changes in her stomach/esophagus that might indicate a hiatal hernia or other reflux related conditions. Some of these types of problems don't have to be ongoing but can occur intermittently to due certain foods and/or stress, for example. Even something like indigestion can cause stomach upset and lack of appetite.

If you don't want the ultrasound, I would suggest you continue to administer the meds - at least the Cerenia and Famotidine - you've been given by the vet on whatever schedule he has recommended, since they seem to help control her symptoms and get her back to eating and feeling better. And, ask the vet about a compounded version of the Cerenia that would change the taste and/or allow it to be administered via a liquid instead of a pill. There might be other ways of compounding it as well.

As long as she eats at least some of her food for a few days when she is having one of these episodes and then resumes eating pretty normally after the meds are given, I wouldn't get too worried about it.

Got it. Thank you so much yeah I will try to give her the medication. Unless I somehow screwed it up, that drooling/foaming of mouth this morning was quite scary when I placed the pill into Sassy's mouth. If anything Cerenia was the easiest of the 2 pills to give her as its rather very small pill compared to the Fomatidine. Literally her drool was hanging off her mouth as she was like panicking walking around the living room quick.

And to your point of indigestion, another thing that shed some light or possibly a clue was that sometimes when she would use her litter box and pass stool, if she didn't do as solid, but more bit liquidy side her stool, She'd kinda act like..scared? And wouldn't eat as much for the day, as if her stomach bothered her and didnt want to force it? Also in the past week or so, if she did like regular stool sometimes she'd pass stool outside of her litter as if it got stuck to her rear? Plus I noticed her rear would be more dirty of late, usually when its not as solid of a stool. I would clean her rear because again of late, she would sit say on a box, or the floor or even on my desk right after doing a stool, and she would leave a poop stain from her rear on that surface. So I'd grab a cloth to clean it, though she would growl at me for doing that. However this morning her stool seemed fine/normal, not loose.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Literally her drool was hanging off her mouth as she was like panicking walking around the living room quick.

This is exactly how Feeby (15+ yo) was the last time I tried to give her liquid antibiotic. She had taken it that way before, but this time I think she didn't swallow it right away. And, man, you'd think she went rabid - drooling, foaming, walking around spitting! I felt so bad for her! After that, she got her antibiotic in a small bit of canned tuna or chicken water and was fine - and, then a bite of the meat as a treat afterward.

if she didn't do as solid, but more bit liquidy side her stool, She'd kinda act like..scared? And wouldn't eat as much for the day, as if her stomach bothered her and didnt want to force it?

When Feeby was having an issue with one of her foods, she had loose stool and it also freaked her out. She sat right outside her box afterward, like she was petrified! She knew something was 'not right'! She also took until later in the day before she appeared interested in food again. So, she probably wasn't feeling her best either.

It's good that Sassy's stool is back to normal today! That is a positive sign - I know it was for me when Feeby's went back to normal!

 

[miguel99nyc]

This is exactly how Feeby (15+ yo) was the last time I tried to give her liquid antibiotic. She had taken it that way before, but this time I think she didn't swallow it right away. And, man, you'd think she went rabid - drooling, foaming, walking around spitting! I felt so bad for her! After that, she got her antibiotic in a small bit of canned tuna or chicken water and was fine - and, then a bite of the meat as a treat afterward.

When Feeby was having an issue with one of her foods, she had loose stool and it also freaked her out. She sat right outside her box afterward, like she was petrified! She knew something was 'not right'! She also took until later in the day before she appeared interested in food again. So, she probably wasn't feeling her best either.

It's good that Sassy's stool is back to normal today! That is a positive sign - I know it was for me when Feeby's went back to normal!

Ah very interesting. Seems to be very similar how Sassy acting like your Feeby. I mean yeah every slightest/smallest thing I see Sassy act that seems off or not normal I freak out because of her age and always thinking the worst or if its her kidney disease acting up. Yeah I figured as much that she wouldn't be as hungry if she had an upset stomach, kinda like us humans. But since shes old, I fear if she does get this upset stomach or digestive issue, it can affect her more due to her age, as lets say a younger cat who can probably recover quicker.

But yes I freaked out with her drooling, I honestly thought it eitner went in her system wrong away or was literally a reaction to it that her body wasnt going to tolerate it. Almost seemed like she was spazzing out or seizures or something. But thankfully after i cleaned up her mouth and floor, she went back to her box bed and sat there for bit then laid down to rest.

Also, does her nose being cold/wed a sign shes ok? Because at times, when my cats used to get ill, their nose would get like dark red and hot/dry.

 

[FeebysOwner]

I mean yeah every slightest/smallest thing I see Sassy act that seems off or not normal I freak out because of her age and always thinking the worst or if its her kidney disease acting up.

Ditto with Feeby!!! She doesn't have kidney issues, but I am always worried about health issues cropping up, just because of her age!

Also, does her nose being cold/wed a sign shes ok? Because at times, when my cats used to get ill, their nose would get like dark red and hot/dry.

I can't answer that one! I have never noticed any changes in Feeby's nose, but then again I am not checking it either! I just now went over to her and her nose is dry and not hot or cold (room temp?). And, to the best of my knowledge, she isn't having any specific health issue right now. Check it a few more times, when Sassy is feeling poorly as well as when she is feeling more normal, and see if it changes any.

 

[miguel99nyc]

Ditto with Feeby!!! She doesn't have kidney issues, but I am always worried about health issues cropping up, just because of her age!

I can't answer that one! I have never noticed any changes in Feeby's nose, but then again I am not checking it either! I just now went over to her and her nose is dry and not hot or cold (room temp?). And, to the best of my knowledge, she isn't having any specific health issue right now. Check it a few more times, when Sassy is feeling poorly as well as when she is feeling more normal, and see if it changes any.

Just saw post online says it doesnt' really correlate to an illness... so I guess that answers that lol.

As to not eating, was that older past vet right about her? Where she wasn't eating but it was ok for her to go without eating for a day or 2 at most because of the extra meat she has on her? I thought cats start to get organs failing after 24 hours, hence which is why I freak out when she starts to eat less; because then it ccan go either way, either not eat anythign at all or eat her normal amount.

 

[FeebysOwner]

As to not eating, was that older past vet right about her? Where she wasn't eating but it was ok for her to go without eating for a day or 2 at most because of the extra meat she has on her? I thought cats start to get organs failing after 24 hours, hence which is why I freak out when she starts to eat less; because then it can go either way, either not eat anythign at all or eat her normal amount.

Eating nothing for more than a day would be a concern to me. In fact, if Feeby - who is also a bit overweight - is not eating her normal foods after one or two meals (she normally gets about 4 a day), I would be trying back up foods. But, if Sassy will eat at least some amount during the course of a couple of days, and then return to eating more, then I think that is OK. I will let Feeby be if she will at least some portion of her normal food during the course of a day or so.

Test some back up foods for her that you could use when concerned. I use baby food meats with Feeby if I am worried about her intake - and, I can pretty much guarantee that she will eat a piece of deli turkey, or some canned tuna or chicken in water if she turns her nose up at everything else. So far, that has seemed to 'kick start' her back to eating.

 

[miguel99nyc]

Eating nothing for more than a day would be a concern to me. In fact, if Feeby - who is also a bit overweight - is not eating her normal foods after one or two meals (she normally gets about 4 a day), I would be trying back up foods. But, if Sassy will eat at least some amount during the course of a couple of days, and then return to eating more, then I think that is OK. I will let Feeby be if she will at least some portion of her normal food during the course of a day or so.

Test some back up foods for her that you could use when concerned. I use baby food meats with Feeby if I am worried about her intake - and, I can pretty much guarantee that she will eat a piece of deli turkey, or some canned tuna or chicken in water if she turns her nose up at everything else. So far, that has seemed to 'kick start' her back to eating.

Yes, well I already have about 10 different flavored Fancy Feast/Sheba food ordered en route to me by tomorrow. My hopes she would like them. Sometimes I also think since Ive been balancing between just 2 different flavored Fancy feast (beef and fish) and just 2 different flavored Fancy feast fillets for dinner, I wonder if she gets tired of it or fed up with it? If such behavior exists in a cat? Because then I wonder if that's the case, then it isnt a concern at all other then her acting up. She tends to demand like attention lol, either would come up to my coomputer chair or desk and ask for food, or even meow at me at nights telling me time to go sleep lol so she lays down wiht me in bed and we sleep together. She would scratch our dining chair because she wants to sit next to me while I eat my dinner and she just peeps out over table to see everyone on the table. So other times I think she's just acting up. But then again, the vomit she did yesterday of her food and water late night was concerning...

 

[miguel99nyc]

Eating nothing for more than a day would be a concern to me. In fact, if Feeby - who is also a bit overweight - is not eating her normal foods after one or two meals (she normally gets about 4 a day), I would be trying back up foods. But, if Sassy will eat at least some amount during the course of a couple of days, and then return to eating more, then I think that is OK. I will let Feeby be if she will at least some portion of her normal food during the course of a day or so.

Test some back up foods for her that you could use when concerned. I use baby food meats with Feeby if I am worried about her intake - and, I can pretty much guarantee that she will eat a piece of deli turkey, or some canned tuna or chicken in water if she turns her nose up at everything else. So far, that has seemed to 'kick start' her back to eating.

Thankfully, although upon getting home from work several hours ago, she did greet me and drank water from sink as before, though she seemed bit lethargic/tired but she laid in bed with me as we took a short nap together. Then come dinner time, she came out from my room as always and asked for food and actually ate quite well. Not fully complete but did eat most of it which was a huge improvement.
Also when she drank a lot of water (maybe she didnt drink all day), she did let out 2 huge burps and I could hear like water noises in her belly, I got scared she was going to throw up again...but i just kept on petting her around her chin and its like it makes her forget that sensation then she calms herself.

 

[miguel99nyc]

Hello everyeone,

So once again since last night she did not want to eat, well not in her plate at least. She was first sleeping during dinner time which i thought was odd, so I kinda woke her up to eat. She slowly came out and asked for food. So I place her food on plate, just gave it few licks and wanted to walk away but yet she remained in kitchen area for while. then she followed me into my room and she ate there her other Sheeba food just fine. she then drank water, used her litter, and then came back into kitchen to eat dry food shortly right after. Maybe I thought ok, she just woke up and I sorta forced her to wake up and such maybe she wasn't in mood to eat.

But then this morning, while she was in kitchen apparently waiting for me to feed her, she was being so friendly and crying to me for food like always. I open can and feed her in plate and once again, she just licks and walked away. I attempted to feed her in my room where she followed me, she ate again not as much but still ate while she hid in a corner (since I would put the food near her face but she wanted to turn her face away). Then she was walking around, used litter again, drank several bouts of water and seemed fine, not lethargic or anything. I did not pill her yet...going to wait until dinner time tonight I suppose.

But here's my question. I was researching online - all these times Sassy has this diminished appetite, I usually think it's her CKD causing it or something else but primarily from feeling nausea. So I research how a cat is when nausea, there are so many signs but Sassy has neither at least this time around? No vomiting, breathing heavily, restless, lip licking, etc. She acts completely normal, so could it be still nausea or be THAT good to hide it? Because then in that case Cerenia wouldn't really work let alone, she isn't vomiting so I feel like it might be not be necessary?

 

[Furballsmom]

My boy is very similar when his stomach is not right and he's not interested in eating (in my particular case, I believe the joint supplement is causing the issue. I've stopped giving it and hopefully his appetite returns to normal). In any case, he'll do much the same things as your Sassy.

I'd watch her weight very carefully and see if she'll eat food from your finger or a spoon or popsicle stick. Also, try a flat paper plate-for whatever odd reason, a reluctant cat will often eat from this oh, in addition, do you have a hairball gel you could try, if that's ok per your vet?

 

[miguel99nyc]

My boy is very similar when his stomach is not right and he's not interested in eating (in my particular case, I believe the joint supplement is causing the issue. I've stopped giving it and hopefully his appetite returns to normal). In any case, he'll do much the same things as your Sassy.

I'd watch her weight very carefully and also, see if she'll eat food from your finger or a spoon or popsicle stick. Also, try a flat paper plate-for whatever odd reason, a reluctant cat will often eat from this oh, also, do you have a hairball gel you could try, if that's ok per your vet?

Aww Im sorry to hear that He does the same??? Thought my cat was unique in doing this...

Like I have another cat hes 14yrs old, no known health issues currently, though he eats VERY little, MUCH less than Sassy and almost never finishes his food. However, unlike Sassy, he goes back to his dish time and time again or to the can/package I leave his food in on floor and goes to eat it. So although he eats far less at meal time, at least he goes back to eat and eat which I'm fine with.

But with Sassy now, she would eat the most she can in one shot, then goes to sleep until midday or so (while we all at work) then eat some dry food afternoon, then one large meal dinner. If she doesn't eat at one of those meals is because for one,I dont got no one elseto feed her during day IF shes awake while we at work. Two,even if I was at home,once she goes to sleep, she sleeps for hours (could be of age?).rarely she will get up to go eat so...in essence, if she doesn't eat at one meal, I know her next shot of eating is at next bigger meal which is about 10-12 hours away. Plus I figured if she doesn't eat then she would at least be hungry you for next meal you know? That's what I thought at least Sassy last night didn't eat much...but this morning she ate less then even last night.

 

[Furballsmom]

This sounds to me that some sort of intervention is needed for your sweetie, either hairball gel if your vet is ok with it, or something more specific from the vet being either an anti nausea or an appetite stimulant, and definitely some hand feeding in the meantime.
Hang in there, this is so challenging when they do this !

 

[miguel99nyc]

Hmm Hairball gel? I kinda figured at times she might have that thought she like...NEVER throws up hair even though I wonder where it goes because either her hair is old age or dry but she does shed a lot of hair so, I figured when she licks herself, she must be eating up all that hair? Shes a domestic short hair though its not like she has LONG hair. Though yesterday she did pass alot of stool that seemed to have hair (like hairy tips?). And oddly enough she did still last night around 9pm and this morning at 7am again alot, though not loose. I was surprised she did that much in less then 12 hours...

Yes she eats of from my hand or utensil when I feed her as opposed to her plate (which is already those really tall ones thats elevated). It could pass over time? I mean she does tend to get over it...some time takes a day and other times it lasted for many days on and off.

I do have mirtazapine, but as my previous posts, that does work but her crying is bit crazy. But as for anti nausea, how else could she be neausous? It doesn't seem like it. Like, I wouldn't want ot give her that anti nausea medicine if she isnt nauseaous?

 

[Furballsmom]

You might talk with your vet, maybe they would prescribe an appetite stimulant? I don't know, if she's crying because she's hungry, she doesn't need that, which leads me back to nausea or a hairball, but your vet would know more

 

[miguel99nyc]

Yeah the vet (2 different locations) told me the only one is that Mirtazpine. What I will do is try to cut in half the halves of 2mg I have already. I still have like 30 pieces of it but was once told on here if I try cutting that smaller piece in half to see if it reduces the crying in her.