Resident cat's behaviour to new kitten

imaginewizard

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I’ve adopted a new kitten (Lillie, 9 weeks), on Tuesday afternoon.
My existing cat (River, 6 years, will be 7 in 6 weeks, he is fixed) approached Lillie, whilst trilling. After giving her a few licks on her fur, he then tried to hold on to her fur with his teeth - it didn’t seem to be a bite, more like how I’ve seen cats scruff kitten (only this was on her side where he was grooming her). There was no aggressive noises from him, and clearly the bite/grab wasn’t forceful enough as Lillie was able to move away (with a hiss at him). River then moved away and kind of just went back to doing his own thing, sniffing the area and occasionally glancing at what Lillie was doing, then back to his own thing and ignoring her - Lillie did the same, would glance over at River, then ignore him and do her own thing.
This repeated a few times, sometimes River would approach Lillie (trilling), sometimes Lillie would approach River (sneaking), and River would attempt to grab Lillie and/or ‘push her over’ (he’d use a paw to push her and topple her over but then make no attempt to pin her down or do anything). Lillie would hide, River would back off, they’d both then go back to doing their own thing, and occasionally glancing at the other cat. When they’re doing their own thing, their body language isn’t that of a wary cat - River is walking around as he normally does, coming to me for pets and head bunts and scratching his post, Lillie plays with toys, grooming herself or following me, even near River (who she then might then decide she wants to approach). Neither are loafing, persistently watching or otherwise acting fearful.
River even twice after Lillie hissed lied down in his side or even rolled over on to his back next to her.
There was one time when River pushed Lillie over and tried to push his nose into her butt as she was on her back - I dunno if that was deliberate or just becuase she was lying down tail end to him.
For context - in their limited interactions the last few days, when River first saw her he hissed. He then pushed his way into the room she was in later that night (because I was in there with her and he felt deprived of company - he usually settles in the same room I’m in, but not exclusively), approached where Lillie was sleeping on his tree, jumped up to the windowsill above her, ignored her for like 5 mins before approaching her. He hissed at her only a few times and then not again that night (and only really once or twice since). His interaction to her after that was to approach her but keep a distance, sniff where she had been sitting and the area around her and then watch her from a loafed position. Lillie would either watch him or ignore him and just mind her own business - or hiss at him if he came close.
It’s probably also worth nothing all of the above is the exact same experience I had two years ago when I cat-sat my boss’ kitten. River would hiss at her too for like the first day, then watch from a distance while trilling curiously, and then they started to get along but with the occasionally incidents of what I explained above (I only witnessed it the once but my flatmates saw it other times).
Maybe also relevant is despite being fixed River occasionally, after a period of snuggling with me in bed and being let, will bite my arm like he’s scruff in it then mount it and unsheath himself, until I remove him.
Appreciate you reading the above I realise it’s a few paragraphs wanted to provide as much context.
What are thoughts on this - from my perspective of a cat pet owner and from what I know, it doesn’t seem aggressive behaviour, there are no aggressive noises (sans the hissing but only when Lillie is pushed which - fair?) or stances. At worst cautious prowling mixed with normal behaviours. My inclination is that it might be attempts at play that Lillie doesn’t like yet (so needs to be moderated), but it might also be River acting on some sexual instinct even though he’s fixed?
Many thanks in advance!


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ArtNJ

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It seems to be going well, with the older cat totally passed the uncertainty and fully accepting the kitten's presence. That is terrific.

As far as what is going on exactly, I have a theory only. Once in a while with the very small ones, an adult cat may regard the kitten as sort of a toy mouse rather than an equal playmate. That is what I thought of when reading your description. But it could be something else, I haven't had kittens quite this young that I remember, or seen this particular behavior.

Re: rough play generally, which you don't seem to have yet, its normally fine if the kitten doesn't like every aspect of it, and squeals a little bit when it gets to be too much. The kitten shows you everything is fine by coming right back and acting like nothing happened, or initiating play itself. However, 9 weeks is quite young, and with an adult (maybe) inclined to treat a kitten like a toy mouse to be picked up, I think you are right to keep an eye on things for a while. Just don't be freaked out if the kitten is made to squeal or even scream (some kittens are drama queens and will scream over a little ordinary discomfort). We don't see kittens being hurt in these situations, its just discomfort. But keep watching!
 
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imaginewizard

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It seems to be going well, with the older cat totally passed the uncertainty and fully accepting the kitten's presence. That is terrific.

As far as what is going on exactly, I have a theory only. Once in a while with the very small ones, an adult cat may regard the kitten as sort of a toy mouse rather than an equal playmate. That is what I thought of when reading your description. But it could be something else, I haven't had kittens quite this young that I remember, or seen this particular behavior.

Re: rough play generally, which you don't seem to have yet, its normally fine if the kitten doesn't like every aspect of it, and squeals a little bit when it gets to be too much. The kitten shows you everything is fine by coming right back and acting like nothing happened, or initiating play itself. However, 9 weeks is quite young, and with an adult (maybe) inclined to treat a kitten like a toy mouse to be picked up, I think you are right to keep an eye on things for a while. Just don't be freaked out if the kitten is made to squeal or even scream (some kittens are drama queens and will scream over a little ordinary discomfort). We don't see kittens being hurt in these situations, its just discomfort. But keep watching!
Thank you for your insight! I feel the behaviour isn't particularly concerning, and I'm glad someone else concurs. I did some more reading and it might just be a dominance thing? Saw some other people basically commenting the same behaviour (older cat doesn't act aggressively other than occasionally trotting over to push them over and 'scruff-bite' at them) and people seemed agreed it was a dominance gesture that would lessen as they became more familiar.

I think I'm pretty confident River isn't put off by Lillie or insecure by the new presence, so I think my only concern is if River's behaviour to Lillie will make Lillie cold towards River, as ideally I'd like them to bond and keep each other company rather than just co-habit (I do realise though that's never a guarantee even in best case scenarios, but what I can do to prevent any level of disdain I'd like to do). The positives as above are that as soon as River backs off and ignores her, Lillie is inclined to go after him, although she'll stop in her tracks when he notices her again, but won't flee (at worse she arches very slightly, and also that River seems to reliably back off when Lillie hisses at him, although this morning he was much more forceful, to the point of 'sliding' her across the floor as he was pushing her with his snout (that sounds worse than it is but I have very low-friction hardwood floors, nothing in that room stays put if it's light enough, all the cat toys constantly move when they're used), ignoring her hisses longer than he did the day before. But I don't know if that's a bad thing or him just being more confident in asserting himself. Lillie still bounces back to her normal self the second he backs off.

Many thanks :)
 

ArtNJ

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Well, the "trying to push over" threw me a bit, but just putting a paw on the other cat or lightly batting is often to try to get the other cat to play. And biting the back of the neck is a normal play thing, and seems especially common when the other cat just lays there and takes it. I've never interpreted it as dominance per se, more like "I want to play, and if you are just going to lay there, I'm and going to do my special finishing move, the play bite!" Most play moves are to simulate fighting or defense behaviors, and biting the neck is how cats kill -- a gentle bite is part of play, its just that when play is equal, they don't necessarily get a chance to use this move much.

This will all change very soon. Kittens are super adaptible. Right now the kitten is intimidated a little, but that won't last.
 
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imaginewizard

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Well, the "trying to push over" threw me a bit,
I mean what I suspect is happening is a combination of a bat and a half-hearted attempt at pinning her down which ends up resulting in just pushing her down.

Hopefully - I'm just going around the rest of my house to kitten proof it so I can let her explore the rest and hopefully the additional space they interact in will help!
 
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