reintroducing cats?

[luvmy4]

Okay, so here is something I could really use advice on.

I moved in with my partner 2 months ago. He had two cats and so did I, so now there are 4 in my care. We did the normal introduction by keeping them separated for a week and slowly introducing smell and sight. At first everything seemed good. There was some hissing but all relatively normal for the situation. After about a month of being around each other the two girls Cali 13, and Lily 2, had a huge cat fight. Fur flying the whole nine yards. We were home and safely broke up the fight with a loud noise and immediate separation. After a cooling off period we tried again and almost instantly they were ready to fight.  We have been keeping them separated. We keep one of the girls in the bedroom and switch them out every few days so they can smell the room and get out and about etc.  Both girls get along great with both of the male cats.

I have baby gates that were used for the initial introduction and we have been using Feliway per my vet's recommendation before I even moved in. We have kept up with the refills and everything for 3 months. My vet seems to think that it is because Lily has come into full adulthood at 2 and is an alpha and Cali who was an alpha is getting old and the younger one picks up on the weakness. His solution was mood medication, but would only like to use that as a last resort. 

How and when should I try to reintroduce them? Is there any hope they will get along?

Is anyone else living with two permanently separated cats? How do you make it work?

All four are spayed/ neutered and being regularly seen by my vet. I took both of my partners cats in for exam and to get their shots up to date before I moved my cats in. Well they are all mines now. tehe

Thanks

 

[mani]

I know it's an obvious question, but I need to ask, have they both been spayed?

 

[luvmy4]

I know it's an obvious question, but I need to ask, have they both been spayed?

Omg my mistake. I should state and will edit original post. All 4 of my cats are spayed/neutered and UPD on vaccinations!

 

[katluver4life]

Restart the introductions between the 2 from scratch. As though they have never met. Go slower. Some cats require a lot more time. Don't rush it. Use food and treats. Feed each on opposite sides of a closed door. Scent exchange with use of a towel rubbed on both of them, placed under the door with enough sticking out on both sides with the door closed, and feed them on top of it. I also use 1 grooming brush on each cat, and this has seemed to work well on getting cats familiar with each other and associating the others scent as a good thing. Once they can eat near the door together, start letting them see each other again. Any signs of aggression, go back a step. Be prepared, this can take weeks or months. They do eventually get used to each other, though may never be best of friends. Hope this helps.

 

[mani]

Restart the introductions between the 2 from scratch. As though they have never met. Go slower. Some cats require a lot more time. Don't rush it. Use food and treats. Feed each on opposite sides of a closed door. Scent exchange with use of a towel rubbed on both of them, placed under the door with enough sticking out on both sides with the door closed, and feed them on top of it. I also use 1 grooming brush on each cat, and this has seemed to work well on getting cats familiar with each other and associating the others scent as a good thing. Once they can eat near the door together, start letting them see each other again. Any signs of aggression, go back a step. Be prepared, this can take weeks or months. They do eventually get used to each other, though may never be best of friends. Hope this helps.

                  

     

Let us know how you're getting on..

 

[luvmy4]

Ok I am going to start feeding them near the door  with a towel starting next week. Lily is on the outside, while Cali is in my bedroom. I want to wait because they are all acting a bit funny because they know something is wrong with Calvin, who is healing from surgery.

They haven't physically seen each other in 3 weeks. They do know that each other exists and occasionally will fight under the door. Hissing and swatting the door, etc. I break it up asap. I do already only use one grooming brush and I am trying to get Lily used to brushing. 

Thanks Mani and Katluver4life. I would really like get these girls to get along! We have already decided that even if it doesn't work out we will keep them separated if necessary. We are fortunate enough to have the space in our home to do so. It's just not how any cat lover would prefer for things to be. 

 

[catspaw66]

Interaction between an older alpha female and a younger alpha female is tricky.  I have had to do this 2 times in the last 3 years.  Check out this video. It is from PBS Nature.   video.pbs.org/video/2224770543  I saw it just recently on TV. It is an old episode, but gives a good insight into the hierarchy of a pride of lions and how the younger ones take over the alpha roles. Remember, our housecats have the same genetic instincts as the wild African lions.

 

[luvmy4]

Interaction between an older alpha female and a younger alpha female is tricky.  I have had to do this 2 times in the last 3 years.  Check out this video. It is from PBS Nature.   video.pbs.org/video/2224770543  I saw it just recently on TV. It is an old episode, but gives a good insight into the hierarchy of a pride of lions and how the younger ones take over the alpha roles. Remember, our housecats have the same genetic instincts as the wild African lions.

I'm watching the video now. My vet said the same thing you did, that one is coming into full maturity while one is aging.

I just started feeding them near the door that separates them not too close to the door though yet. Calvin is doing really well so I've let him out when I am around to supervise, so there is not rough house playing. It has calmed all the cats down. 

I am just going to take it really slowly with this and keep moving the bowls closer. I will try the baby gates so they can see each other again once I feel they are comfortable being near the door around each other. It will probably take some serious time.  I can't have another fight or I will be back at zero. 

 

[catspaw66]

I'm watching the video now. My vet said the same thing you did, that one is coming into full maturity while one is aging.

I just started feeding them near the door that separates them not too close to the door though yet. Calvin is doing really well so I've let him out when I am around to supervise, so there is not rough house playing. It has calmed all the cats down. 

I am just going to take it really slowly with this and keep moving the bowls closer. I will try the baby gates so they can see each other again once I feel they are comfortable being near the door around each other. It will probably take some serious time.  I can't have another fight or I will be back at zero. 

Did the video give you any insight?   The good thing is that once they have fully accepted each other, even though there will be squabbles, the serious fighting is over.  Sugar and Spice still grab at Silly's back legs sometimes. She just complains at them and scampers off. Were you given this link before?   www.thecatsite.com/a/introducing-cats-to-cats   If so, please forgive me for doing it again. I hope that all the advice given by everyone will solve the problem and all of you can live in peace.

 

[luvmy4]

Thanks for the link it had not been posted yet.

 

[luvmy4]

Just an update. It seems that the feeding near the door has caused increased fighting through the door. Everyone is fine at meal time but Lily is patrolling the door 24/7 and trying to rush in when I go in and out now where as before she had stopped. They are both territorial but Lily is certainly the most aggressive of the two. They started fighting through the door multiple times per day. I have removed the scented towels from under the door and I am backing up in their introduction. I put the towels away from the door and I am giving Lily treats on the towel but not near the door.  I am also using the grooming brush as was suggested to trade scents.  

 

[luvmy4]

Unfortunately there was a fight this morning. Lily got through my legs this morning at meal time and attacked Cali again. I tried to grab her but she was too fast. I did break the fight up asap as I was right there. I luckily only got a few scratches. Cali is okay. She has one scratch near her ear that I cleaned.
I am really starting to fear they have to be separated permanently. I am going to put Lily on meds to hopefully stop her aggression. I made a vet appointment for next Tuesday

Anyone else living with 2 permanently separated cats?

Cali is too old to be rehomed and my SO will not rehome Lilly.

 

[katluver4life]

I am glad your dedicated to keeping them both and I know your feeling extremely frustrated.

Getting 2 territorial cats to live comfortably together can take many months. Your doing everything right. Medication for Lily may help. I would put the baby gates back in use. I found these to be helpful even before allowing them to see each other, just to keep one or the other from dashing either in or out of the room. I placed it in the door jam, so it was there even with the door closed. Not sure what kind of doorways you have, but this worked great for me in the past. I had up to 3 stacked at one time(when I'd have the door open for any period of time), as I once had a cat who was a fantastic climber! Also which cat is the one isolated? Cali? Does Cali get along with the other cats? If so, I'd try room switching if possible. This sometimes helps with territorial issues. If Lilly has time to spend in the room full of Cali's scent for awhile, fed there, allowed to sleep there ect. it may help.

 

[luvmy4]

I do switch who is isolated. The girls both get along great with the boys. I'm going to see if the vet thinks an anti depressant will help. They know what each other smells like but trading scents just seems to make Lily more aggressive and ready for her to hunt Cali.
I am getting frustrated but they are family so they won't be put out just because they don't get along.
I am usually so careful and they have not fought since they were separated except for yesterday.