Really confused about food and got really strange advice from the vet

[andreiamlm]

Hi everyone!

I've been reading a lot of posts here at the forums and decided to register.

My name is Andreia and I live in Lisbon, Portugal.

I have to beautiful loving cats: Chibi and Chu, brothers from the same litter. They are one year old and sterilised.

To be honest I almost free feed them till I read that I shouldn't. I have been trying to fix some scheduled meals but without a lot of luck.

One of the cats Chibi has put a little weight and last time on the vet weighed around 5kg, Chu only 4,5kg.

So after reading a lot here I asked my vet about advice.

First I normally give them dry food and lots of water and sometimes wet food.

My first vet told me about the risks of wet food and dental problems and I trusted it.

So last appointment and with a new vet I asked my questions. 

And got this: feed once a day, dry food of course. When asked about wet and my worries about daily water ingestion and renal problems she gave this excuse: If I as a human have a meal of soup I will not drink so much water as opposing to a meal of french fries!?!? And that I could only give wet once a week and more I would have t o clean their teeth?

She spoke about Royal Canin satiety food with fibers? 

I'm going to be honest I feel so lost!

I buy them Royal Canin Kitten Sterilised and was told this was a premium food in comparison  to supermarket foods and so on.

Once a week I give them a can of Purina Gold wet food ( I think is the European version of Fancy Feast?)

I'm so afraid of doing the bad thing.

I want my sweet cats to have a good nutrition.

They seem hungry all the time. Asking for food in 3hours intervals. They wake me up at 7 and want food all day long. I have to try to make them regular meals try to push to 5 hours between meals.

Could you please help?

Thanks a lot in advance!

Andreia

 

[Columbine]

Hi Andreia. Welcome to TCS.

There is a lot of confusion and misinformation out there about feeding cats. I'll try to give you some basic pointers/guidelines.

First of all, imo it's a myth that dry food will keep a cat's teeth clean. It's on a par with claiming that crackers/cookies will keep our teeth clean

Secondly, cats have a very low thirst drive. They evolved to get around 80% of their fluid intake from their food. Any cat on a significant quantity is going to be dehydrated - there's no way around that fact.

Thirdly, cats are obligate carnivores. This means that they are designed to process meat - not grains, fruits or veggies. Yes, in the wild they eat whole prey, and that prey will have a proportion of vegetable or plant matter in their digestive tract. However, this matter has already been broken down by the prey. Cats lack the digestive enzymes necessary to break down any kind of plant matter - basically you're feeding for bigger poops if you feed plant matter in any form.

Kibble (dry food) has to contain some level of carbohydrates (either grains or other plant matter - often potatoes and other starchy veg - or both). There is simply no other way to make kibble. Foods like Royal Canin generally have a significant quantity of grains in them. What's more, a lot of dry foods substitute vegetable protein for a proportion of animal protein. Again, this is next to useless for a cat as they're unable to access that protein. For this reason, cats on this type of food are often hungrier and are more prone to overeating as their diet is not satisfying to them.

Cats are designed to eat little and often - a good way to think of it is 'mouse sized meals'. Whilst multiple feeds are impractical for most people (little things like work get in the way ), it's certainly advisable to give two feeds a day - morning and evening - and more is better. I work from home, and feed around 6 mini meals a day to my cats, and they do great on that system.

There are lots of opinions on what makes an ideal diet for cats, but the most important principle is that any wet food is better than any dry. After that, grain free (or at least low grain/carb) is the next most important factor to consider. Another point to note is that it doesn't matter how wonderful the food might be on paper - if the cat won't eat it, it's useless. It can't do any good from inside the can!

There are plenty of other options to keep cats teeth clean. IMO (assuming physically cleaning the teeth isn't viable...and I personally prefer to look at less complicated options) the best choices are the dental additives (such as plaque off, CET etc) or chunks of raw meat, which is by far the most natural option, but raw feeding is not for everyone.

These links may help :-
http://www.thecatsite.com/a/grain-free-cat-food-what-does-it-mean
http://www.thecatsite.com/a/what-makes-the-best-canned-cat-food
http://www.thecatsite.com/a/transitioning-free-fed-kibble-kitties-to-timed-meals
http://www.thecatsite.com/a/transit...-to-a-new-type-of-food-canned-raw-or-homemade
http://www.thecatsite.com/a/what-do-i-need-to-know-about-feeding-my-cat
http://www.thecatsite.com/a/cat-nutrition-a-recaphttp://www.thecatsite.com/a/choosing-the-right-food-for-your-cathttp://www.thecatsite.com/a/choosing-the-right-food-for-your-cat-part-2
http://www.thecatsite.com/a/what-tcs-members-use-cat-dental-health-care
http://www.thecatsite.com/a/does-dry-food-actually-clean-your-cats-teeth
http://www.catinfo.org

 

[lisahe]

I agree with everything that Columbine says but want to particularly agree with these three paragraphs:
We also feed our cats in five or six small, wet meals a day (we work at home, too) and find that it works very well to keep them from getting too hungry. I think it also lessens their anxiety about being fed. (Or worrying that they won't be fed!)

For another vet view, here's a summary of what our vet, who's a cat specialist, said when I asked her a nutrition question: meat! She said young cats, like yours and mine, need lots of protein from meat. She recommends wet food only, with no grains, low levels of carbohydrate, and lots of meat. By contrast, I looked up the Royal Canin satiety food your vet recommended and see the only meat-based ingredients are chicken fat and "chicken by-product meal," plus there are ingredients like tapioca, wheat, wheat gluten, and corn gluten. As Columbine noted, those sorts of ingredients can make a cat overeat: we had this problem with our previous cat. (And I wish I had never, ever listened to our previous cat's vets, who were not cat specialists and recommended a similar sort of dry food! Some people might have success with foods like that but they were the worst possible thing for our cat. I learned a lot, the hard way, from feeding her that food.)

As for the question of teeth, we've been brushing our cats' teeth for a few months now and they have grown to enjoy it. At least in some way: they love the flavor of the toothpaste so will tolerate a little brushing everyday.

@andreiamlm, good luck. I think you're doing the right thing for your cats by wanting to feed them wet food!

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

One additional thing on the dental aspect.  I don't actually brush my cats teeth, but I do give them the CET toothpaste the nibble on every day.  They all love it, and I've read that just by getting it into their mouths it's helpful.  I tell myself it is anyway

.  So far, none of them have needed dentals, so that's good.  And they all eat wet food, 3 meals per day.  The only dry stuff they eat is freeze dried raw (not reconstituted) , as treats. 

 

[detmut]

what type of vet do you see? it appears there is a cat-only practice near you:

https://www.facebook.com/hospitaldogato

http://hospitaldogato.com/

 

[andreiamlm]

thank you all so much for all your replies!

I saw a local vet on a local clinic.

I'll check Hospital do Gato, although they sell dry food maybe they'll have a different opinion about wet food?

I checked some threads about wet food and brands but here in Portugal we don't have a lot of brands being sold.

Do you know any European alternatives?

Thank you so much!

 

[andreiamlm]

 
thank you all so much for all your replies!

I saw a local vet on a local clinic.

I'll check Hospital do Gato, although they sell dry food maybe they'll have a different opinion about wet food?

I checked some threads about wet food and brands but here in Portugal we don't have a lot of brands being sold.

Do you know any European alternatives?

Thank you so much!

 I was looking for a edit post but  I didn't find it. You can't edit?

I would like to elaborate further.

I was really happy to see all your answers. Trying to be a good human to your cats feel like a really lonely road when you question the dry food route.

You all made me feel really welcomed and I was really touched with all your replies and the attention and detail of your posts!

A big big thank you!

 

[LTS3]

 
 I was looking for a edit post but  I didn't find it. You can't edit?

Newbies aren't allowed to edit their own posts: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/242191/promotions-and-benefits Once your status becomes "Kitten" (after 5 posts and 1 day of membership) you can edit your own posts but there is a window of 2 hours after you post in which to make edits.

 

[Columbine]

I can't say what brands you can get in Portugal, but some good European brands are Feringa, Terra Faelis, Nature's Menu, Lily's Kitchen, Thrive Complete, Animonda Carny, Catz Finefood, Bozita, Grau Grain-Free...I could go on. Basically, it's a case of knowing how to read labels. You want to see meat as the first ingredient (named muscle meat is ideal, but if your budget doesn't stretch that far, simply 'meat and meat by products' is fine). Ideally, you don't want to see any grains or potato listed, or any high carb veg, and it's a good idea to avoid foods that list 'matter of vegetable origin' or 'various sugars' too. Avoiding fish is a good idea for cats, but if they love it, it's fine occasionally.

Basically, you have to decide what factors are most important to you when choosing a cat food. Any wet is better than even the best dry. It's a good idea to pick foods where the protein is animal rather than vegetable. Next most important (in my view) is low - no sugars and grains. I'm sorry if I'm repeating myself.

It's great that you want to get nutrition right for your cats. It does get very confusing, but it gets easier as you work out your own 'checklist' of what you do and don't want to see on the label. Hope this has helped clarify things a bit

 

[lisahe]

Basically, you have to decide what factors are most important to you when choosing a cat food. Any wet is better than even the best dry. It's a good idea to pick foods where the protein is animal rather than vegetable. Next most important (in my view) is low - no sugars and grains. I'm sorry if I'm repeating myself.

It's great that you want to get nutrition right for your cats. It does get very confusing, but it gets easier as you work out your own 'checklist' of what you do and don't want to see on the label. Hope this has helped clarify things a bit

I think this is the most difficult part of making cat food choices: deciding what you think is acceptable for your cat's health, based on what you learn about cat food, what your vet tells you, what you're capable of in terms of money and time, and what your cat tells you. It can be very hard to balance all that. Making things harder, your criteria may change over time, when cat food recipes change, your cat's health changes, your budget changes, your cat's taste changes (this can be a day-to-day matter!), and who knows what all else.

The good thing, at least in the U.S., about eliminating certain things from your list of acceptable ingredients is that it limits choice so you have less food decisions!

 
Trying to be a good human to your cats feel like a really lonely road when you question the dry food route.

This can be so true! Our previous cat's vet (the best of that bunch at the clinic) was very impatient with me when we talked about her food and the sad part was that she didn't always know the basic facts about the foods, like which were "complete." I found that employees at natural pet food stores were far more informed about food ingredients and feline nutrition than the vets at our now-former clinic, where the focus seemed to be more on dogs than cats.

 

[Columbine]

It never ceases to amaze me how little vets seems to know about nutrition. I had Asha at the vets for a pre spay check up on Monday. The vet noticed she had a dead tooth, so I asked if that made oral hygiene measures (such as brushing) more important than in a 'normal' cat. Her reply was on the lines of "brushing cats teeth really isn't necessary in my opinion. As long as she get some kibble she'll be fine." I simply replied that Asha didn't recognise kibble as food, and would a dental additive like Plaque Off be a good idea. She agreed that that was a good solution. Do bear in mind that this is a vet I trust, and have used for many years.

I had another trusted vet ftom the same practice tell me about a dog the kept having gastric problems (we were discussing cat/dog nutrition at the time). The dog was fed a 'frankenprey' diet, and all the vets at the practice were convinced that it's diet was responsible for its problems - therefore, all raw feeding was detrimental to cat/dog health. I have to say, in fairness, that I have known dogs get very sick from raw feeding meat from supermarkets/butchers. One was a dog who got severe food poisoning from being fed half defrosted chicken wings that had been sat in a hot car to thaw, and the other was my dogs reacting badly to some raw lamb bones id got from the butcher. All I think it proves is that you have to be careful and know what you're doing when constructing any home made diet - raw or otherwise.

Sorry, getting sidetracked here. What I'm trying to say is it does get hard going against veterinary advice and trusting your own instincts and research when it comes to pet nutrition. I think you have to bear in mind two things - firstly, that the resources we're basing advice on are by vets and animal nutritionists who have done extensive research into the subject and, secondly, that as there are a ton of differing opinions on human nutrition, it's not all that surprising that the same applies to animal nutrition.

 

[Anne]

Another option is to contact a nutrition expert in Europe and do a phone consultation. Maybe they can also back this up with a written message which you can show your vet.

Frankly, I would consider switching to a different vet. Not because there's anything wrong with feeding all-dry - there is no scientific proof to show that there is - but because there's definitely nothing wrong with feeding all wet. I'm sorry to say, but if your vet claims that there is, it makes me wonder about that vet's overall level of expertise on cats. Depending on how comfortable you feel with that vet, you may want to discuss this with him/her, or possibly find a different vet.

 

[ar1951]

"Dry food mixed with small amounts of wet food is a good combination: I take little patties of wet food and stick high quality protein kibbles in the patties for the extra Vitamins; what is good about Natural Kibbles is all the Vitamins and omega oils added; like Vitamin A and Vitamins E.   AR

 

[andreiamlm]