RB is mounting everything! Breeders please respond.

[fostermama4rb]

Hello, I am new to this forum and have a problem that is multifaceted.  I will share some background info so the right folks can weigh in and help RB be more happy.

1. RB is an uneutered male Scottish Fold (but looks every bit a British Shorthair).  He lives with us but is not ours.  He is the stud of a friend who breeds Scottish Folds.

(Note: please do not recommend I get him neutered.  Save the speech on pet overpopulation and how breeders contribute to the problem.  I volunteer for a cat rescue organization and know all the numbers.  I am an adamant believer in spaying and neutering to control the pet overpopulation problem but do believe there is a place for fine, ethical breeders.  I am helping one out by keeping her boy as a beloved pet in my home.  She does not want to over breed her girls or lock him up in a cage.  With that in mind, please only respond if you have helpful, nonjudgemental suggestions that honor RB as the pedigree that he is, my friends heart to find him warm, loving accomodations and our desire to do the same.) 

2. I have other cats.  As I mentioned in the rant above, I volunteer for a cat rescue organization and have both my own cats and fosters coming and going all the time.  I try to keep the fosters out of "The Crew" that are permanent residents.  RB resides with The Crew in that part of the house.  

3. He seems to only mount a few specific cats.  2 females (spayed) and 1 male (neutered.)

4.  There are no other unneutered males in the house.   (save for a few male kittens that are not of reproducing age yet.)

5.  Occasionally we get a mama with kittens and mama is spayed asap, but sometimes one does go into heat before that can be scheduled. (no, he's never accidentally got with one. We go to great lengths to make sure there are multiple barriers. (ie doors, gates, locks)

6.RB was last studded about a year ago.

7. RB is about 3 years old, I think ( i will check this exactly with my friend)

8. RB has lived with us around 5 months.  He is a little socially awkward and what I would call 'emotionally constipated'.  My friend bought her two girls and RB from a breeder who kept him in a cage all the time.  Life outside the kennel has been an adjustment, but he is now comfortable and social in our home.

9.  He also pees.  Since he is an not neutered, I see this as normal behaviour.  He will do it in the bathtub if the door is left open for him.  Whatever.  If he hits the carpet, its in the same spot and only when he can't access the bathroom.  Oddly, this behaviour is not as concerning to me as the mounting.

My main concern is for RB's health.  Is he frustrated?  Could this make him ill in any way?  Are there health problems that would precipitate this behaviour?  What steps could I take (aside from neutering him) that might alleviate this?  Are the unspayed females potentially the cause?  (Note - at this moment, we have one mama who was spayed yesterday with no noticable signs of heat at the time.)

One more question.  Another friend said that uneutered males will mount in an attempt to bring the mounted cat into heat.  I have never heard of this and can find no info to support it.  This person is not a breeder, just a really opinionated cat person.  But, she's been right before..Has anyone ever heard this?

If I've left out information that could help answer some of these questions, please ask.  Thanks so much for your help.

 

[carolina]

Hi....
Not recommending that you spay him.... However to me, this would be the only solution for the problem :dk:
I mean... Every single thing you posted there fits the bill for hormonal..... So.... No clue here if there is another solution....
Good luck though

 

[northernglow]

My BSH stud will only mount his neutered (Fold) son. He will not mount my BLH queen who is not spayed unless she's in heat. Obviously I don't let them hang out together unsupervised when I'm not at home. My stud is very easy going, and I believe that the reason he only mounts his son is that his son is the only cat below him in the hierarchy. My neutered BLH male is the alpha kitty, the BLH queen is close second, the BSH stud comes next and his son is the last in line.

Do you have any kind of contract made with RB's owner which states how many litters he is supposed to sire before retiring or any age limit? I find it a bit odd to have him unneutered still at the age of 3 when he's not living with his lawful owner. Usually when stud is placed elsewhere they get neutered fairly early and only sire 1-3 litters in a short time so it doesn't come a problem for the keeper of the stud as it is tough to live with a possibly spraying, mounting and yowling male. The longer he stays unneutered the more likely it is for him to get his bad 'stud habits' stuck even after neutering. 

Do you have an alpha cat among your 'Crew'? If it's someone else that RB, does he mount the alpha cat too and does the alpha let him do it?

If you have any unneutered rescue males coming/going, that can cause it too. Feliway diffusers around the house might help, but I must admit I haven't had luck with them against stud behavior.

 

[StefanZ]

Hi and welcome to the TCS site and our Forums!

I think the behaviour of this stud is entirely normal. You are lucky he is peeing as he is peeing. Many other pee or spray almost everywhere, esp if stressed...

But as Northern Glow remarked, the last mating was a whole year ago. So what is the point of keeping him fertile?  If no more matings are planned, best to relieve him from his duty.  He will be much happier afterwards.   I, if anybody,  I do know!

do observe, Im not one of these who tells spaying is the remedy for everything.  My two residents were both active studs, not because we were active breeders with own gueens, but for the best of our breed in Scandinavia... ALL them breeders did agree esp our older boy, the father, was splendid.  All, even these two who did quarrelled with each other about EVERYTHING else.    The younger was not showed much, his main qualifications was he was his father son. There were hardly any money in it for us, the stud fee being wery low in our breed, at least at that time.  But we did endured several years.

We had a tread about your problems some month ago,  Loodk about the Pill for studs.. There we did also mentioned several other tries to relieve the tensions.

Feliway as NorthernGlow mentions, was one of them.  To give him much to do, may be another.  There are video films with films from aqvaries with fishes.  Or birds.  You can have a bird feeding station outside your window. So he can watch them birds, but they are entirely safe...  Etc, etc...

Last.  Yes, the heat can be induced by mating.  so it is not absolutely necessay with heat for a fertile female to get pregnant.  your acquistance had more or less right.

Good luck!

 

[nekochan]

I don't know what you can do about this except for discouraging him from the behavior, but I just wanted to say that my 3 neutered males will sometimes scruff-grab and/or mount their (spayed) sister so it's not just something that intact males do... Two of my males were neutered at 12 weeks old and the other at around 6 months old.

 

[fostermama4rb]

First, thanks to all of you for your helpful information.  Discussing the behavior of an unneutered male concerned me.  I wasn't sure I would get advice or a lecture.  I appreciate your genuine concern.

RB is still mounting.  We have a few alpha females in the house that simply won't tolerate it and so he makes his way down the line of order.  He is apparently not 3 years old.  My friend, his owner, said he is more like a a year and a half.  She is not in a position to breed him right now but would like to hold off neutering him as the summer is looking like a better window. He has now started peeing in undesirable places (even with access to the bathroom) and is more edgy than normal.

Based on everything that you all have shared with me, I can at least consider most of this behaviour normal.  One final foster mama has just come into heat (quarantined well, of course).  I realize the scent of her alone is going to set him off.  We are trying to get her in asap for her spay. 

 

[jennyr]

Oh dear, I think you are very brave, coping with both a randy stud and a female in heat! Bon courage, and I hope that at least you manage to get the female spayed soon.

 

[northernglow]

He is apparently not 3 years old.  My friend, his owner, said he is more like a a year and a half.  She is not in a position to breed him right now but would like to hold off neutering him as the summer is looking like a better window. 

I'm a bit worried about this. You mentioned earlier that he was bred about a year ago, which would be way too early to breed a Scottish Fold. If he is now 1,5 years old, now would be the good time to do it for the first time. The breed has some health issues which usually show early if they are there, that's why they shouldn't be bred very young, a year and a half would be optimal for the first time to be more sure he doesn't have any issues. But I understand this is not your problem, it's the breeder's responsibility to know what they are doing.

You said he is peeing in undesirable places, do you mean regular peeing or spray marking? Does he spray at all?

 

[fostermama4rb]

jennyranson, thanks for kind words.  It does have it's challenges.

Northern Glow, what are the health problems you mentioned?  Would those have anything to do with being bred early?  Are they connected with the other things he's doing?  As far as I can tell he is not spraying anywhere, just peeing in places.

 

[northernglow]

Originally Posted by fostermama4rb  

Northern Glow, what are the health problems you mentioned?  Would those have anything to do with being bred early?  Are they connected with the other things he's doing?  As far as I can tell he is not spraying anywhere, just peeing in places.

Well, the most well known and worst issue with Foldies is osteochondrodysplasia, which is a skeletal disease that causes a lot of pain. This disease is why two Foldies are never supposed to be bred together, they are always mated with a British Shorthair  (or an American SH in some associations, some allow Scottish Straights too but I think that's too risky). If 2 folds are bred together, the chance of the kittens being sick is pretty much every third kitten. They also may suffer from aggressive arthritis, PKD and other stuff which can basically show up in any other breed too. The osteochondrodysplasia and arthritis in Folds usually show up early, around 6 months of age, and often breeders want to check the cat for skeletal abnormalities with an x-ray and that can't be done until the cat is at least 1 year old.

The stud won't get sick from being bred too early if that's what you meant, the breeder just can't be very sure about his health so early which is why the higher age is recommended (and a female obviously would be too young to have kittens safely before she's had her first birthday, in any breed). If RB's just peeing in places and not spraying, I suggest a vet trip to make sure he doesn't have urinary tract infection. That is probably the most common reason for a cat to pee in inappropriate places unless they are marking territory. My BSH stud used to pee in random places sometimes if we had a female in heat around, that was his way of marking before he learned to spray when he was 4 years old... Luckily he doesn't do that anymore.

 

[StefanZ]

  One final foster mama has just come into heat (quarantined well, of course).  I realize the scent of her alone is going to set him off.  We are trying to get her in asap for her spay. 

You know of course spaying during heat is more complicated?   For an experienced vet surgeon it is not very big deal, but make sure it is this experienced vet doing the surgery, not her young assistent barely with a fresh vet exam...

Usually we advice against spaying while in heat, but I do understand your choice is limited.

 

[orientalslave]

To be quite honest if she can only use him as a stud every year and a bit, I think she should neuter him and use other people's studs.  I don't think it's fair on him - his pee will smell, he probably sprays, so most people couldn't live with him as a house pet.  Part of owning a stud, IMHO, is making sure he gets enough 'work' to keep him happy and I feel your friend can't.  Obviously he isn't your cat and it's not up to you to neuter him, but if you can find a way to discuss this with her...