raw feeding question

[jenniator]

Hey guys, this might sound like a really stupid question to all of you, but I figured theres no way to know unless I ask.

My cat Mew is a picky eater and he refuses to eat Pate style foods, so I'm curious about the raw food diet. Lately I've been considering trying out the raw diet with my cat. The problem is that I know nothing about the raw diet. So I have a few questions about it.

In the raw diet, do you cook the meat or leave it uncooked?

If you have a meat like Chicken, do you cook it? I ask because I know it's dangerous if it's uncooked to humans

Do you grind the main protein in a meat grinder so it becomes like a pate style, or is the grinder just for the bones and added minerals? I'm not sure if the meat needs to be grinded or just mixed in once the bones/minerals are blended.

Is preparing the raw food diet time consuming?

I heard that raw feeding is a lot cheaper than buying wet food from a can, is it true?

That's all the questions I have for now

Sorry for the basic/stupid questions. It's just that I want to learn more about the raw diet since I've heard such amazing stories from it.

 

[denice]

Here are a couple of stickies from the top of this forum to get you started   http://www.thecatsite.com/t/264153/home-cooked-cat-food-resources     

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/264154/raw-feeding-resources      As far as cooking the meat you can do either one, you should never feed cooked bone however.  The grinder is really only necessary for bone.  You can buy premixes that have bone in them already, many people for different reasons use eggshell for calcium.  You can buy premixes with eggshell calcium in them.

You can make a home cooked or raw diet for less than a canned diet.

Along with reading the stickies that I gave you links to you can read through the threads in this forum and as you learn more about it you are welcome to start threads to ask specific questions.  The main thing is you need to balance the meat so it is a complete diet.

 

[jenniator]

 
Here are a couple of stickies from the top of this forum to get you started   http://www.thecatsite.com/t/264153/home-cooked-cat-food-resources     

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/264154/raw-feeding-resources      As far as cooking the meat you can do either one, you should never feed cooked bone however.  The grinder is really only necessary for bone.  You can buy premixes that have bone in them already, many people for different reasons use eggshell for calcium.  You can buy premixes with eggshell calcium in them.

You can make a home cooked or raw diet for less than a canned diet.

Along with reading the stickies that I gave you links to you can read through the threads in this forum and as you learn more about it you are welcome to start threads to ask specific questions.  The main thing is you need to balance the meat so it is a complete diet.

Hello,

I've been reading several sites about raw food. It's is very confusing, but I'm doing my best to learn more about it. The thing that worries me about the raw diet is if it is time consuming and difficult. There are a lot of different components to making the raw diet since you need to add a lot of suppliments which I read are mandatory, not a option. Right now I'm reading the first link you gave me. I didn't know you should never give cooked bones, so that is very useful information.

Something really caught my mind and I'm really curious about it. I'm looking at premix suppliments, the TCfeline for Europe. (I really appreciate the list included many different countries and where you can buy this mix since I thought it was only available in the U.S.) Ok, I've been looking at the TCfeline mix and I was wondering if it had all the suppliments you normally need to buy seperately, but all together in one mix. I see it has a lot of supplements the raw diet requires. Basically I'm wondering if I buy this TCfeline mix, will I need to add any other suppliments in the Meat/Liver/Heart protein? Is it just as good as if I added the suppliements naturally? It would be wonderful if the TCfeline mix had all the suppliments mixed together since I wouldn't have to worry about buying a lot of different suppliments, measuring them, and it would be a lot easier since it's my first time doing the raw diet. Sorry for the basic question I really hope u can help me though since I'm getting really interested in this raw diet.

 

[furmonster mom]

My best advice is to take your time and do the research.

There are a lot of links within the threads that @Denice posted for you.

It will seem overwhelming at first, so just take a bit at a time.  Let it soak in.

When I started researching (mumble mumble) years ago, there was not a lot out there.  The first site I came across that really delved into the subject was Dr. Lisa Pierson's catinfo.org.  It's still a pretty good starting point, imo.

Now there is much more awareness and interest in the feline's natural diet, and there is a veritable flood of information out there.

A few of my "go to" sites now:

CatCentric.org

Feline-Nutrition.org

Dr. Becker at Mercola

As for your immediate questions....

 
In the raw diet, do you cook the meat or leave it uncooked?

Well... technically, "raw" means uncooked.  So, when you use that term, that's what folks are going to assume. 

Homemade cooked food is usually referred to as "homemade" or "home cooked".

If you have a meat like Chicken, do you cook it? I ask because I know it's dangerous if it's uncooked to humans

Cats are carnivores and their digestive systems are set up to process raw meat, including a reasonable bacterial load... Humans digestive systems are not.  Now, that doesn't mean we disregard bacteria entirely for our felines, there is still a "load limit" so to speak.  So making sure that the meats we feed are as fresh as possible is still important.

Do you grind the main protein in a meat grinder so it becomes like a pate style, or is the grinder just for the bones and added minerals? I'm not sure if the meat needs to be grinded or just mixed in once the bones/minerals are blended.

Since I prefer the "Franken-prey" (whole, chunky) style, I'll defer to those who actually grind their foods.  This is one of those areas that you can make the choice that best suits your needs and abilities.  The way I've always understood it is that the meats, bones and organs all get ground up, and then supplements are added as deemed necessary by the recipe/mix/blend.

Is preparing the raw food diet time consuming?

Well, yes, it's certainly more time consuming than opening a can. 

  But as you become more comfortable with what you are doing, it goes faster.  It can also depend on the style you choose to go with (Ground mix, Franken-prey, whole prey).

I heard that raw feeding is a lot cheaper than buying wet food from a can, is it true?

When all is said and done, my food cost per cat is about $18 a month.  I haven't bought canned food in 7 years, so I don't really know how that compares.  Also, costs can be different for everyone depending on the meats they feed and how they are sourced (shipping gets a little costly, imo). 

Hope that gives you some ideas. 

 

 

[jenniator]

 
My best advice is to take your time and do the research.

There are a lot of links within the threads that @Denice posted for you.

It will seem overwhelming at first, so just take a bit at a time.  Let it soak in.

When I started researching (mumble mumble) years ago, there was not a lot out there.  The first site I came across that really delved into the subject was Dr. Lisa Pierson's catinfo.org.  It's still a pretty good starting point, imo.

Now there is much more awareness and interest in the feline's natural diet, and there is a veritable flood of information out there.

A few of my "go to" sites now:

CatCentric.org

Feline-Nutrition.org

Dr. Becker at Mercola

As for your immediate questions....

Hope that gives you some ideas. 

 

Hello Furmonster! (love your username by the way) I've been looking at the threads Denice posted. Saying it's overwhelming is a understatement. It is very stressful and overwhelming ha ha. But I'm not going to let that stop me from learning more about the raw diet. There are so many different styles of raw feeding and so many components to it. I always thought there was just one type of raw feeding lol. I remember years ago I never heard anything about the Raw diet and it was almost unheard of. Now I hear about it everywhere and how beneficial it is to their cats. My cat is 8 years old and I want to provide him with a good diet especially that he's getting older. I've tried feeding him good quality brands, but a lot of it goes to waste since he doesn't like the Pate style. He loves Applaws and Almo Nature, but those are not complete wet foods. So I thought I would check into the raw diet since a lot of people said there cats love it. At first it seemed impossible that I could do the raw diet, but after reading more about it, it looks like it might be something I could try.

I know raw means uncooked, but I wanted to make sure you really use raw meats since it sounds strange to me to use uncooked meat for cats. But then again, I'm use to the meat always being cooked in the wet foods, even in the high quality brands. Is it better to serve the meat/protein raw or home cooked? I'm thinking raw since I heard that cooking meat takes the protein out of it, but I want to be sure before assuming something. That's pretty cool you can decide to grind or serve the meat in pieces. Do you know anything about the TCfeline mix? Maybe u can help me answer a few questions I had about it on my post above. Also if I use the Franken-prey style, would I be able to use the TCfeline mix or would it only work in the grinded style. I know that it's more time consuming than opening a can, but I'm hoping it won't take 3 hours to prepare it since it will be difficult since we're so busy. Wow 18 dollars a month per cat is very affordable! Thank you again so much for answering all my questions and helping me. I really appreciate it since it's stressful learning about the raw diet.

 

[furmonster mom]

 
Hello Furmonster! (love your username by the way) I've been looking at the threads Denice posted. Saying it's overwhelming is a understatement. It is very stressful and overwhelming ha ha. But I'm not going to let that stop me from learning more about the raw diet.

Take your time.   Don't rush it.   Take a little bit at a time and let it sink in. 

I literally spent 2-3 months researching as much as I could find before jumping in.

There are so many different styles of raw feeding and so many components to it. I always thought there was just one type of raw feeding lol. I remember years ago I never heard anything about the Raw diet and it was almost unheard of. Now I hear about it everywhere and how beneficial it is to their cats.

There are 3 basic methods of raw feeding:  grind, prey-model, and whole prey.

Grind is recipe-based and usually uses one or two meat sources plus supplement mix.  The supplement mix is usually needed when the recipe does not include bones or organs.

Prey-model (Franken-prey) uses whole bits (meats, meaty bones, organs) mixed and matched to meet a percentage criteria (math!).  When done right with a good variety of meats, supplements should not be needed.

Whole prey is exactly that; whole mice, guinea pigs, chicks, etc.  As with Prey-model, variety is important to get a broad spectrum of nutrients, and supplements should not be needed.

I know raw means uncooked, but I wanted to make sure you really use raw meats since it sounds strange to me to use uncooked meat for cats. But then again, I'm use to the meat always being cooked in the wet foods, even in the high quality brands. Is it better to serve the meat/protein raw or home cooked? I'm thinking raw since I heard that cooking meat takes the protein out of it, but I want to be sure before assuming something.

Yep, we really do use uncooked meats, bones, and organs.

Canned foods are indeed cooked.  Cooking doesn't take protein out, but it does destroy a large portion of nutrients... which is why you need supplements to put them back in.

Some folks prefer to make their own home cooked food, because commercial foods have so many extra fillers.  Home cooked foods still need supplementation, though.

Do you know anything about the TCfeline mix? Maybe u can help me answer a few questions I had about it on my post above. Also if I use the Franken-prey style, would I be able to use the TCfeline mix or would it only work in the grinded style.

If you are looking into using supplements, you need to follow the recipe for that supplement mix.  Some mixes are for meat only, some are for meat & organs. 

I feed the Prey-model style using the percentage criteria (%80 meat, %10 bone, %5 liver, %5 other organs).  I have also made sure to include as much variety as possible, so I do not use supplements.  Though, occasionally I will give some extra fish oil or vitamin E. 

I'm hoping it won't take 3 hours to prepare it since it will be difficult since we're so busy.

It all depends on which style you choose to go with, and how you portion it out.

I've spent a few hours pre-packaging a month's worth of meals, but at actual meal time it takes me about 15 minutes (for 5 animals).  Fifteen minutes might seem like a long time, but that is because I pre-package for the day and I still have to portion out the individual meals.  I've made individual meal packages for petsitters, and the time saved at meals is essentially traded in the packaging (hope that made sense).   I'm guessing that those who grind spend the time on the "front end" (grinding, packaging), with the benefit of quicker feeding/meal times.

 

[andrya]

Hi there, l'm also a raw-feeder and had the same questions when l started out. l use the raw, ground method, and occasionally the cooked ground method.

l add individual supplements, not a premix. However, l looked at the TCFeline website and it says it contains xanthan gum so that the "slurry" will coat the meat chunks should you decide to feed that way. However, it also states that some cats could eat the chunks and leave behind most of the mix, so that would depend on your individual cat.

To give a cost comparison in Canada where we seem to pay more for everything 

 l was paying around $300 a month for high end canned foods for 3 cats. l worked out the cost of my homemade raw to be around $1.20 per cat per day so it ends up aroundabout $100 a month for 3 cats. And my cats are much healthier, they get comments at the vet about what good shape they're in and how glossy their coats are. That's what makes it worthwhile.

 

[peaches08]

I agree with everyone's responses, but I wanted to comment about the time involved.  I'm a nursing student so time is very valuable to me.  However, my cats had raging diarrhea on canned so something had to change. The last time I made 17-18 lbs of chicken thighs cat food took about 2 hours.  I ground the chicken thighs and liver, cut the gizzards into slightly smaller pieces for chewing/dental benefits, added the individual supplements, spooned it out into mostly individual servings (ran out of individual servers so I had to turn to bigger containers to split up later), then soaked and cleaned the grinder and counter tops. That gives me enough food for approximately a month for 3 cats.  Feeding is easier, and I'm not having to give meds for IBS anymore.  The litter box doesn't smell and they pee a lot of dilute urine which is good urinary health.  Because of my schedule I've not been able to get to the 2 litter boxes for a few days and it STILL doesn't smell (never said that I was a role model).  That couple of hours once a month or so is countered by my cats are healthier and they aren't on meds that they hate trying to stop diarrhea.  It's "Here's your food, I'm off to ____ and see you in __ hours."

 

[jenniator]

 
My best advice is to take your time and do the research.

There are a lot of links within the threads that @Denice posted for you.

It will seem overwhelming at first, so just take a bit at a time.  Let it soak in.

When I started researching (mumble mumble) years ago, there was not a lot out there.  The first site I came across that really delved into the subject was Dr. Lisa Pierson's catinfo.org.  It's still a pretty good starting point, imo.

Now there is much more awareness and interest in the feline's natural diet, and there is a veritable flood of information out there.

A few of my "go to" sites now:

CatCentric.org

Feline-Nutrition.org

Dr. Becker at Mercola

As for your immediate questions....

Hope that gives you some ideas. 

 

I have been taking my time in researching the raw idea. It's a good idea to take it easy and learn a little at a time. There really is a lot to know about it. Thank you for telling me the three different raw styles! Theres no way I could do the whole pray style since it is too cruel for me. I know cats naturally in the wild eat small animals, but I couldn't bring myself to let that happen. I mean I have trouble looking at a dead fish because of it's eyes staring back ha ha! So I think I will stick with the other two. I do like the Franken-prey style, but I'm horrible with numbers and percentages. So I think I will start with the Grinding style since it sounds the easiest. I hope it won't be too similar to Pate style since Mew doesn't like that. I think I will leave the food raw since it's more natural for them and keeps the nutrients. Do you know if it's alright to use raw Pork? I saw a site saying that it's not a good idea to use raw pork. Spending a few hours to make food for a whole month doesn't seem that bad since it will last the whole month. So that's really nice. Thank you for your information!

 

[jenniator]

 
Hi there, l'm also a raw-feeder and had the same questions when l started out. l use the raw, ground method, and occasionally the cooked ground method.

l add individual supplements, not a premix. However, l looked at the TCFeline website and it says it contains xanthan gum so that the "slurry" will coat the meat chunks should you decide to feed that way. However, it also states that some cats could eat the chunks and leave behind most of the mix, so that would depend on your individual cat.

To give a cost comparison in Canada where we seem to pay more for everything 

 l was paying around $300 a month for high end canned foods for 3 cats. l worked out the cost of my homemade raw to be around $1.20 per cat per day so it ends up aroundabout $100 a month for 3 cats. And my cats are much healthier, they get comments at the vet about what good shape they're in and how glossy their coats are. That's what makes it worthwhile.

It's nice to know you had the same questions when you started out! It really can be overwhelming. I think it would be best for me to start off with the grinded method first since it seems to be the easiest. Do you know if the grinded style is similar to Pate style wet food? I'm asking since my cat isn't too fond of them. I'm still looking more into the permix and deciding to use that or individual supplements. I hope if I do use the mix that mew would eat all of it. If it's mixed in well enough I think it will be alright. That's incrediable how much you are saving by switching to the raw diet and how much better they look. I am also paying quiet a bit for good quality can food that Mew doesn't seem to really like. That's what got me thinking the raw diet might be a good idea since I heard every cat loves it.

 

[jenniator]

 
I agree with everyone's responses, but I wanted to comment about the time involved.  I'm a nursing student so time is very valuable to me.  However, my cats had raging diarrhea on canned so something had to change. The last time I made 17-18 lbs of chicken thighs cat food took about 2 hours.  I ground the chicken thighs and liver, cut the gizzards into slightly smaller pieces for chewing/dental benefits, added the individual supplements, spooned it out into mostly individual servings (ran out of individual servers so I had to turn to bigger containers to split up later), then soaked and cleaned the grinder and counter tops. That gives me enough food for approximately a month for 3 cats.  Feeding is easier, and I'm not having to give meds for IBS anymore.  The litter box doesn't smell and they pee a lot of dilute urine which is good urinary health.  Because of my schedule I've not been able to get to the 2 litter boxes for a few days and it STILL doesn't smell (never said that I was a role model).  That couple of hours once a month or so is countered by my cats are healthier and they aren't on meds that they hate trying to stop diarrhea.  It's "Here's your food, I'm off to ____ and see you in __ hours."

Me and my husband are also pretty busy, especially during the week days with work. But I wouldn't mind spending a few hours to make sure Mew is healthy. My cat also has stinky poos and diarrhea ocassionally, so maybe that will help for him also. That's really cool you made 17-18 lbs in only 2 hours. That's not too time consuming since you are able enough for a month and for 3 cats! It's wonderful to hear you aren't giving your baby IBS medicine anymore and the litter box doesn't smell.It really does sound like spending a few hours making the raw food is worth it. It's nice that it's easy to serve and quick.

 

[peaches08]

The first few times making cat food was a little longer (4 hours, tops), mostly because I lightly seared the outside first then shocked in ice water, etc.  Now I use plain raw and know what I'm doing so it's faster.  But yes, in the end it's so much easier and I feel really good about what my cats are eating. 

 

[jenniator]

 
The first few times making cat food was a little longer (4 hours, tops), mostly because I lightly seared the outside first then shocked in ice water, etc.  Now I use plain raw and know what I'm doing so it's faster.  But yes, in the end it's so much easier and I feel really good about what my cats are eating. 

It's understandable it took you longer in the beginning since you we're still learning about the raw diet and trying different things. I'm really glad to hear your cats are doing so well on it.

 

[furmonster mom]

I do like the Franken-prey style, but I'm horrible with numbers and percentages. So I think I will start with the Grinding style since it sounds the easiest. I hope it won't be too similar to Pate style since Mew doesn't like that. I think I will leave the food raw since it's more natural for them and keeps the nutrients. Do you know if it's alright to use raw Pork? I saw a site saying that it's not a good idea to use raw pork.

LoL

Yes, the math can be daunting.  You're not alone, many others go the grinding/recipe route for that very reason. 

   There are some folks here, though, who are fantabulous with numbers, so if and when you're ready, I'm sure they will be willing to help you out.

I believe you can adjust the grinder to make the food a little more chunky to avoid the pate' issue.  Hopefully someone who works that style can chime in on that.

It's fine to choose to avoid pork, but I personally don't think it's necessary.

I do use pork in my rotation. It's about 1/4 of the overall diet.  A lot depends on how confident you are about the source.  People will point to trichinosis (caused by a parasite) as a concern, but that is super rare in human grade pork anymore.  However, wild or game pork may still pose a risk.  To be on the safe side, it is recommended to freeze pork for a couple weeks before feeding.  Some folks will also claim that pork is too fatty.  However, unlike humans, a carnivore's system is especially designed to process fats for energy.  Again, though, it is wise to moderate it and consider the other meats being used in the whole diet.

 

[peaches08]

 I believe you can adjust the grinder to make the food a little more chunky to avoid the pate' issue.  Hopefully someone who works that style can chime in on that.
It's fine to choose to avoid pork, but I personally don't think it's necessary.

I do use pork in my rotation. It's about 1/4 of the overall diet.  A lot depends on how confident you are about the source.  People will point to trichinosis (caused by a parasite) as a concern, but that is super rare in human grade pork anymore.  However, wild or game pork may still pose a risk.  To be on the safe side, it is recommended to freeze pork for a couple weeks before feeding.  Some folks will also claim that pork is too fatty.  However, unlike humans, a carnivore's system is especially designed to process fats for energy.  Again, though, it is wise to moderate it and consider the other meats being used in the whole diet.

I grind, and the grind plate I use is to make sure that the bone is ground enough for digestion.  Mine can eat whole bone, but I'm lazier when it comes to ground food vs. Cornish hens that are cut up for snacks.  In any case, almost any grinding plate is going to make more of a pate kind of food.  Before making up your mind that he won't like that style, are you sure that it is the grind that is the problem?  Most pates are lower carb and some kitties still want carbs that are common to chunkier canned foods.  I've had people say that they're cat wouldn't eat pate canned yet gobbled my ground food up and looked for more.

Pork is fine here in the US since most are on medicated feeds and many of the parasites have been eliminated.  I would imagine that pork would be safe in Holland too...you can freeze it for 3 days to kill off various worms, etc (not bacteria).

 

[spider jones]

Hey jenniator! I totally understand the confusion when you first start trying to learn about raw diets but I promise you it will all begin to make sense eventually and your confidence will soar. If your kitty doesn't like the finely ground texture and you plan to add a calcium supplement instead of raw bone, you could always use a food processor; I have a very old processor right now which blends the meat with the other ingredients adequately, without finely mincing it. You can also save a portion of the meat to cut into little chunks and then add that to the ground or processed mixture at the end.

 

[cprcheetah]

In the raw diet, do you cook the meat or leave it uncooked?

Raw is raw, so no cooking, sometimes you can lightly cook if you have a finicky kitty

If you have a meat like Chicken, do you cook it? I ask because I know it's dangerous if it's uncooked to humans

Cat's systems are designed to handle bacteria, ours our not, so no it is not dangerous and no you don't have to cook it at all.  I have been feeding my dogs raw since 2010 and have had no illnesses due to raw, in fact my dogs are much healthier than they ever we on kibble or high quality canned food.  My cats have been on raw since the end of January.  Planning on switching my other 3 cats over when I can.  I have 3 of 6 on it right now. 

Do you grind the main protein in a meat grinder so it becomes like a pate style, or is the grinder just for the bones and added minerals? I'm not sure if the meat needs to be grinded or just mixed in once the bones/minerals are blended.
I grind the meat as I am following the Catinfo.org recipe, I am using the boneless recipe so I add eggshells for calcium.  I actually just use my Ninja food processor to grind my meat/organs/supplementss etc.

Is preparing the raw food diet time consuming?

It takes me about an hour to mix up 2 weeks worth of food for my 3 cats that are on raw.

I heard that raw feeding is a lot cheaper than buying wet food from a can, is it true?

Yes I feed 3 kitties raw for about $15 every 2 weeks, which is much cheaper than wet food (if you buy grain free), heck I think that's even cheaper than fancy feast.