Raw fed cat shows a good bit of bone in stomach upon X-ray....a problem?

[txcatmom]

Hi.  Lucy went to the vet today for a cough.  He took an x-ray.  Her heart and lungs are fine.  But he did ask, "What has she been eating?"  There was a good bit of bone at the top of her stomach.  (I'd say maybe it took up about 1/4 of her stomach.)  He seemed a little alarmed (but I'm sure he doesn't x-ray many raw fed animals.)  There was some bone in her stool too.  He even wondered if maybe the cough could be related to trying to bring some of that bone up.

Lucy eats ground turkey, rabbit and chicken (meat, bone and organ) from Hare Today, supplemented with Alnutrin.  They get about 15% of their food supplemented with plain raw chicken breast chunks since the ground animals from HT are a bit too high in bone content. 

Lucy does barf up a meal once in a while, once or twice a month.  It is usually while she is eating or right after and seems to be related to eating too fast or too much.  If she is vomiting once in a while, wouldn't that empty out the bone? 

I guess I'm wondering if the bone sitting there in her stomach is a problem? I mean, of course she would have some in her tummy and stool since it is in her food.  I don't think the vet really knew whether it was a problem.

(Side note: for now we are assuming the cough is related to her stomatitis.  While she has been doing well on the Dallas LPS Syrup...eating, grooming and not drooling...the back of her throat is still red and inflamed.  Her tonsils looked inflamed.)   

 

[vball91]

I believe Carolina's Lucky had trouble digesting bone, and it was one of the reasons she switched to boneless frankenprey. Lucy's problem may be similar. I would expect to see some bone in her excrement, but bone sitting in 1/4 of her stomach seems like a lot to me. If Carolina doesn't see this post, I would PM her. I know she had a discussion with her vet about this.

 

[Sa'ida Maryam]

Hi, sign to watch for are coughing, red inflamed throat , occasional vomiting, well are these definable for a diagnosis and caused by undigested bones? My Awssul just started taking the shoulder blade bone. But she eats everything. I will watch for those signs to ensure she is digesting bones. It has been two days since she's started. I think I will just ground the egg shells. But, beside calcium what nutrients will she miss, in the event we stop the bones? Also, I had "heard about bones undigested by dogs showing on x-rays but the inflammation would lead to anti-inflammatory medicine which , Did the vet give?

 

[txcatmom]

The vet did prescribe prednisolone for the inflammation...and clavomox since antibiotics can help treat stomatitis symptoms. The clinic in Dallas that sends her stomatitis meds was okay with adding these. I think the vet was just startled by the bone and wondering if she could be trying to bring it up like a hair ball. He knows the red throat is from her stomatitis.

Thanks for the info about Carolina's cat. I'll pm her if she doesn't see this. I don't think I could do frankenprey, but I could figure out ways to use less ground bone, I think....with the help of the good folks here.

 

[ldg]

That does sound like a lot of bone. I had two of my cats x-rayed for various reasons once we transitioned to raw last year, and there were pieces of bone throughout their whole systems. The vet wasn't alarmed at all, and said she doesn't have any other raw fed cats as patients so has never seen that before, they were all small - but clearly some were being passed undigested. She said they were all sizes to not be any kind of problem.

What I'm wondering is if it was a solid block of bone or if it was bone in or around a hairball. That I could see happening. The hairball won't show on x-ray.

...and if I remember correctly, part of the problem with Lucky was that she couldn't keep the meals down.

In the Plantinga feral cat study, the authors were a bit surprised to find that the estimated Ca ratio was higher than anticipated, at 1.5:1. They speculated that the reason was due to the bioavailability of bone. http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=8404219

From my experience with the x-rays and the Plantinga study, I assume it's normal for there to be undigested bone throughout a raw fed dog or cat's entire system. But if there's a pile of bones taking up one-quarter of her tummy... I'm still wondering if there isn't a hairball involved there. :dk:

 

[txcatmom]

But if there's a pile of bones taking up one-quarter of her tummy... I'm still wondering if there isn't a hairball involved there.

That's a really good thought, LDG.  Maybe I'll up her egg yolk intake.  She loves them.  She only gets 1/2 yolk a few times a week right now.

Oh, and I could be off with my 1/4 estimate.  It could have been 1/5 or 1/6 of her stomach.  I wish I had asked the vet "So what percentage of her belly do you think that is?"  Because I knew I'd be asking you guys about this. 

The bone was all together in one spot...a hairball is really making sense the more I think about it.  My kitties do have bits of bone in it when they bring up a hairball.  But that was a lot of bone in one spot in the x-ray.  Anyways, maybe the cough is a hairball cough.  She has had an increase in grooming as she has felt better and better with her stomatitis treatment.

 

[carolina]

Hi!

Any chance Lucy has Ibd? Lots of cats with stomatitis do have Ibd.... And they do have problems with digestion.... Even though Lucky was never officially diagnosed, I am pretty convinced she has some digestive issues.
She did have problems with bones, that is correct. But what took us to the vet was the fact that she wouldn't keep food down- nothing.
She was eating Rad cat, and at the moment I introduced Hare Today, she blocked.
I took her in and the xray showed from her stomach to the end of her intestines she was full of undigested bones.
She got so bad she rejected any raw meat. She was for almost a month on freeze dried chicken, then a week or so on kibbles, then finally back on raw, but she was prohibited to eat bones.
Because of her and Bugsy's Ibd I chose to feed all my cats a modified frankerpey diet, using eggshell calcium instead of bones. It works great for them.
Since Lucy doesn't seem to be blocked, maybe the xray was just taken during her digestion time? :dk: Or of she has Ibd, she has a bit of hard time digesting it.
The fact that she vomits once a month might be a sign. I don't know how her digestion is, I just know that a high percentage of stomatitis cats seem to have Ibd, and it might be a reason for her slow digestion.
If so, things like enzymes, probiotics, egg yolks, etc can all help her. I like a boneless diet better.... That's because of somethings I have read.... And just me liking to be safer, and making it easier on their bodies. It is thought that an Ibd cat might have a harder time digesting bones, and the constant strain can push the pancreas into pancreatitis. That's why I don't feed bones, its easy to digest.
Anyways, I hope this helps you some! I do think, for sure raw is the best diet for Lucy, no question about it- you did the best thing for your girl transitioning her! :nod:

 

[txcatmom]

Hi, Carolina! Lucy's digestive system has always been the one thing we could count on working well..lol. No constipation or diarrhea, she has needed help from the vet in expressing her anal glands though. (And this has made me paranoid that there could be something wrong with her poops. But I've never seen any evidence of a problem.). Actually, her anal glands were fine this vet visit. I'm thinking with her increased grooming the increased amounts of hair in her poop could be helping with that. I could see an absence of normal grooming leading to the anal gland problem. And the once or twice a month vomiting is when it is at its most frequent. She has gone much longer than that without a problem. Really, every time it has happened I've been able to say she really was eating pretty fast or too much at once. So, I'm hoping there is no digestive issue, but given her state when we adopted her, I could see things not being up to par. She does take probiotics and salmon oil...maybe I'll look into digestive enzymes.

I'll have to consider whether I need to decrease the ground bone in their diet. They do love their chunks of chicken, so maybe I could give Call of the Wild a try for some of their meals.

I'm still thinking about that mass of bone bits in the X-ray. Can anyone think of any reason they would all be in one spot like that if a hair ball wasn't holding them together? They weren't even at the bottom of her stomach where gravity might have just made them settle.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Hairball sounds like a  very plausible explanation.  Remember if you use Call of the Wild that if they don't like it, you can always substitute Alnutrin with Eggshell Powder instead.  My Darko LOVES Call of the Wild, but the other two hate it

.  (and if you use the Alnutrin, then you'll need to add liver...I used Gimborn freeze dried, both chicken AND beef...it's a long story

)

 

[ldg]

Hairball sounds like a  very plausible explanation.  Remember if you use Call of the Wild that if they don't like it, you can always substitute Alnutrin with Eggshell Powder instead.  My Darko LOVES Call of the Wild, but the other two hate it .  (and if you use the Alnutrin, then you'll need to add liver...I used Gimborn freeze dried, both chicken AND beef...it's a long story :lol3: )

Just to reiterate: CoTW makes just meat complete and balanced.

Alnutrin with calcium still requires the other organs.

 

[Sa'ida Maryam]

Hi, I read the story of LUCY and I was wonder what is meant by the her anal glands though. (And this has made me paranoid that there could be something wrong with her poops. But I've never seen any evidence of a problem.). Actually, her anal glands were fine this vet visit/B] statement? Thanks

 

[txcatmom]

Hi, I read the story of LUCY and I was wonder what is meant by the her anal glands though.

In the 10 months we've had Lucy, she has needed her anal glands expressed by the vet twice.  This indicates a problem, because normally they empty themselves as the cat pushes out a bowel movement.  There can be different reasons for this problem (including lack of exercise or an anatomic abnormality) but it is often associated with poop that isn't bulky enough, diarrhea or constipation.  So that is why I said that I was paranoid Lucy was having some sort of problem with her poop.  But I never saw any evidence of unusual stool.

The fact that her anal glands were fine (empty) this vet visit has me wondering if her recent increase in self grooming has led to an increased ingestion of hair.  This could have made her poops bulkier (since that is the way the ingested hair often gets out) and helped empty her anal glands.  Anyways, I'm glad they were fine this time, whatever the reason.

Hope that answers your question.