raw diet and FIV positive

[pocho]

Hello, I need to ask just one more time. Is it safe to feed my FIV cat a raw diet or am I putting him at risk. He is responding so well to Primal frozen rabbit and his IBD has virtually disappeared except for a little itchy skin. I am asking because one of my non FIV cats just had a vet visit due to puking and raw diet was frowned upon. I am just making sure I am doing the best thing and am open to other alternatives.

 

[ritz]

I believe some people who feed raw and have FIV+ cats tend to feed commercial raw that has been subject to high pressure pasteurization. I fed prey model raw, but were Ritz FIV+ I'd probably feed commercial raw that has been HHP. Or maybe cook or grind my own food.
Other than that, I don't have much knowledge or experience.
ldg knows a lot about FIV+ cats, although I don't believe she feeds raw; she could help you maybe.
Good luck, though--and glad your cats IBD has virtually disappeared.
BTW, there are several reasons a cat throws up--Ritz throws up if she hasn't eaten for a long time. And given my work schedule, that is unfortunately often.

 

[maureen brad]

I did feed my FiV + cat raw for some months.Lately he has been sick.My vet asked, and I agreed to feed only commercial food that uses HPP and cooked or at least seared food.

LDG does feed her FIV + cat raw and he does very well on that diet.

I am currently awaiting test results on my Remy to find out just what is going on with him.I do not believe he is sick due to raw food. I believe he is sick because he also has FHV and after a surgery he was given a short course of steroids and the 3 in 1 vaccine.

 It is my belief ( not my vets) that as long as your cat is relatively healthy raw food strengthens the immune system.

My vet pointed out to me that people with HIV cannot eat raw food. There are arguments on both sides.

I have decided that if Remy makes it through this I will use Dr. Pierson's recipe as well as cooked.Remy loves the Stella and Chewy's freeze dried and the Primal ( all kinds) commercial food but I am no longer going to feed him anything with ground bone.

 

[pocho]

Thanks for the response you guys. I do feel safe with the primal hpp treated. They also like radcat but I don't believe that is hpp treated. I do stay away from chicken just because it has such a bad track record. I might explore a cooked meal too although with Ibd I don't want to tax his system too much as far as having raw and cooked digesting at different rates. But I worry about everything.....I think all kitty moms do

 

[pocho]

I wrote the Primal company. I thought all their products were hpp treated. But it is only the poultry lines. I completely overlooked that. So the rabbit which my kitty likes thr best because if his Ibd and rabbit being a novel protein is not hpp treated. That complicates things. Eitherway, I think mosy people like me think all their lines are hpp treated but this is not the case. Interesting....

 

[pocho]

I just read on a popular vet website that in her opinion raw dies is fine for FIV cats except in one case, if the white blood cell count is high. Is there a way to know this without blood work or signs? I think this is a very reasonable guideline and want to use it for my Giuseppi.

 

[pocho]

Diet NOT dies...little subconscious slip there revealing my fears!

 

[maureen brad]

No there is no way to know a WBC without a blood test.My Remy also likes rabbit. I found a canned food called 'Wild Calling" very well priced 5oz cans. If you go to their site you can read the ingredient list. It is the closest thing t raw in a can. I am stocking up on their rabbit, buffalo.. For now I am buying Stella and Chewy's freeze dried raw Duck, Duck Goose which has duck, turkey and goose without all the fruit, veggies etc. I am buying the Primal frozen Pheasant and using dr. Pierson's recipe for chicken and turkey. This way Remy will still have a number of different protein sources. He is sick and the dr. feels his FIV is progressing. I do not feel that has anything to do with the time in which I fed him raw without HPP.

I continue to feed my other cats raw...

 

[ldg]

I feed all of my cats a modified prey model raw diet, including my FIV+ boy. I use supermarket meat supplemented with items I order from Hare Today because I can't source them.

I do provide Chumley with lysine, lactoferrin, probiotics, and thymus supplements. I give all of my cats probiotics to help bolster their immune systems.

Feeding an FIV+ cat raw is up to your comfort level. Most vets caution against it. There are a number of people in the FIV-healthscience Yahoo group that feed their cats raw, I'm not aware of anyone that's feeding only the HPP stuff, and I am not aware of any FIV+ kitties that have had any issue. It might be worth joining to ask the group, as the owner, Joel, would know if anyone had reported any issues, and those feeding - or who tried - could chime in.

 

[ldg]

ldg knows a lot about FIV+ cats, although I don't believe she feeds raw; she could help you maybe.

:lol3: I'm one of those that believes it is particularly our unhealthy or immune-compromised kitties that *need* raw food to improve their health. At a minimum, homemade cooked or partially cooked. But I think they benefit from the live food. I transitioned to raw while Lazlo was on chemo, and Spooky has small cell cancer and is on an immune-suppressive dose of steroids. I feed all of my cats raw, and not commercial, and not HPP. Tuxedo had IMHA and his hematocrit is now over 40% consistently; Spooky's blood work remains normal (knock wood!); and on Jan 30, we will celebrate Lazlo 3 years in remission (KNOCK WOOD!). Chum has FIV, and was very, very sick when we rescued him. The holistic steps we took fixed him up, but on raw, he has blossomed - and went from a cat with unstoppable diarrhea to a cat that can eat anything and not get diarrhea (knock wood).

 

[pocho]

Thankyou for input. I am sorry Maureen that his FIV is progressing possibly. How old did you say Remy was? What is it about bone that makes you want to remove it? I definitely will join that group LDG.

 

[maureen brad]

LDG- I agree that cats need the 'live' food, absolutely. Remy still gets the raw even if it is HPP, last night I made a big batch of chicken using Dr, P's recipe.

Pocho- Remy is 8 . I adopted him when he was 6. I am not sure if it is his FIV making him sick. He had many teeth removed in Oct. ( maybe Sept. I am not sure) A few eeks later his mouth was still inflamed ( Stomatitis) so the Dr. put him on a short course of prednisolone and it kicked in his FHV , very badly. He is actually been a little better but not better enough that I felt ok about it.

 Last week I started to notice that he was drinking to much water though still eating fine.

Raw feed cats just do not drink a lot of water so I took him in.Blood tests show Non- Regenerative Anemia. The Dr. ( whom I think the world of) was off when the results came in but e-mailed me saying that she felt his FIV was on a roll ( he has been losing weight despite eating) . She closed by saying that I should keep an eye on him and decide when his days were more bad then good. That was Friday.

I got a copy of the test results. Kidney's fine, no diabetes etc. His liver counts are to low and protein and monocytes to high.

having spent the last two nights trying to figure it out I still can't find what causes liver counts to be low but I have found that while he certainly has non-regenerative anemia his other counts do not indicate his FIV is progressing  but perhaps an under lying pathology. I am waiting to talk to the vet tomorrow as I certainly am not a vet and I think she is tops so I need her to explain what she thinks is going on.Over the past couple of days Remy hasn't eaten all his food. That new development scares me.

Sorry for the long answer- anyway this is why I will either cook, sear or feed HPP food. as for the bone. I really was reaching to change anything that could potentially be a problem. Now having the panel results I see that his phosphorous levels are normal.Thats good because the HPP contains bone. When I do home cooked I have no grinder. I still get grinds with bone from Hare Today for my other cats.

I get so conflicted about raw for FIV cats. I do know that until I began raw Remy had continually black, yeasty ears. Never again once he was eating raw.His coat became beautiful and his eyes got better. He has never been a vomited or had diarrhea . The stomatitis has been a major ordeal and I had felt that once that was dealt with Remy could have many years of happiness. In some ways I was a dreamer, he did have happy playful days here and there but not to much, he does have some degree of cognitive involvement etc. I believe the raw has only helped him but have gotten fearful since learning humans with HIV cannot eat raw. On the other hand there are certainly cats right now who are doing wonderfully on raw whose parents have never had them tested and do not know they have FIV.

It is a personal choice and considering the garbage the pet food companies throw out , if I had it to do over , I would still go raw.

if nothing I wrote makes much sense please forgive me. I am really tired.

 

[lisamarie12]

Pocho:

I'm sorry your cat is FIV.   My 4 year old male kitty has IBD and also FHV.  He has been on Primal rabbit (and some freeze dried turkey from Primal); I do a little NV canned also.  I didn't know that Primal's rabbit wasn't HPP, hmm....  I also tried RadCat even though it isn't HPP, I felt secure enough with the company's strict safety protocols for their raw product, I took a chance. My guy's IBD is really under control but not sure now about continuing with Primal's rabbit. Thanks for contacting the company and providing this info!

 

[lisamarie12]

LDG:

Fascinating and very useful info re: immune compromised kitties and raw diets, thank you!!

 

[ldg]

Yes, I think NV and Primal only pasturize the poultry lines because the other meats are low risk for the bacterial pathogens.

 

[pocho]

It's just so good to talk to people who are dealing with the same issues. So important to collect as much knowledge as possible. Like Remy I have also noticed my Giuseppi drinking more water and right after eating his raw food, which I find curious. I want to know all the warning signs of the FIV taking hold. I look at his gums and watch his droppings....one thing that upsets me is he still has these moments where he chews on his front paws and scratches his neck and head obsessively. At first I thought the switch to total raw was taking it away but I guess not. Anyways thank you so much for the support.

 

[maureen brad]

Pocho- it does sound like your cat has some allergies. Hope you can get to the bottom of it. Remy does not drink a lot of water after eating. Oddly, it seems to be at night only. I could be missing it during the day because I am working ( at home). He smacks his lips a lot. I think that is due to the anemia. Tried to call the vet today. I want to sit down with her and have her go over blood tests results with me and explain which results ( besides the RBC) brought her to the conclusion that the problem is Remy's FIV. She is out sick today. I was told that another vet would be happy to meet with me. I love this clinic( they just added on 5 new cats only rooms and a feline dental surgery suite) so I am happy to meet with any vet.

Today I ran out and got Remy some liver which he ate up very quickly and with gusto.

I did go the  yahoo groups and read from the FIV-health science group. Many do feed raw and I know I swing back and forth with this but in my gut think raw is the way to go.

Of course this presumes a well balanced meal etc. The HPP is fine and Stella and Chewy's does use HPP on all its raw. I just keep coming back to the security in knowing exactly what goes into meals I serve and knowing that I don't have to trust in anyone else's prep methods but my own.

I think some vets don't like raw because they have seen people not do it right and the suffering that can cause.

Right now I will feed Remy whatever he will eat if it comes to that.

Just as a side note- I am starting to think Remy's wandering and water drinking ( and staring vacantly at walls) have a cognitive explanation. I am impatient to talk with a vet.Remy is ok this minute. He is on a cat tree watching the goings on outdoors. That makes me happy because he has been sleeping and hiding for weeks.

 I sometimes think cats know what we are talking about and Remy has heard my worry and decided "Don't even think about it mom- I am sticking around_" 

 

[pocho]

Poor Remy. Hope he is still a little more engaged in life and feeling better. You are absolutely right about allergies and Giuseppi. I started introducing some pheasant and goat milk besides the rabbit that seemed to reverse his IBD. Looking back that is when all the scratching got worse and then it was confirmed with explosive diarrhea. So Ibd or allergies or both my guy can't even have novel fowl sources right now or milk. He won' go near lamb so I am on a quest for novel red meat sources. I wish they sold mice in a can or frozen. Seems it would be perfect.

 

[maureen brad]

Poor little Guiseppi. Have you tried feeding him Venison or Quail? They are expensive but some cats do well on them . I just laced a big order on Hare Today. I got some quail, venison chunks and the usual Rabbit, Chicken, Turkey and pork. I ordered a pound of duck and am going to try serving that with Rabbit organs.I am so weird that I get very excited when I order from HT.

I have finally settled on a diet for Remy. I will use Dr. Pierson's recipe for chicken and turkey but without bone . I will feed him the rabbit from HT. It is ground while frozen and I feel that the chance of contamination is minimum. I will also feed him Stella and Chewy's freeze dried Duck, Duck Goose. Because I want to have a wider variety for all the cats I will continue giving Remy the Wild Calling Buffalo.

Remy is looking better but he is still lethargic and kind of withdrawn.

I really do not know what happened but last night I happened upon an article linking the Covenia injections with Anemia and Remy had three injections of Covenia over a 3 months period in late 2014.

Remy is my only cat that is impossible to pill and so the vet gave him those injections. He didn't have any obvious reaction and the shots did help him but now I am left wondering.

 The vet does feel this is all due to his FIV even though his WBC is normal right now. She told me that FIV can make its way into the bone marrow.

 I forgot to tell you that I give Remy a 5 mg generic  Zyrtec  tablet hidden in his food once a day.I use the generic just to save a couple $$ This is greatly helping his allergies. The only place I have found that low dosage is at the Kaiser pharmacy.

After giving him that for about 6 months he began to somehow eat around them and leave the tablet. For the past couple weeks though I have managed to fool him. The beauty of that size tab is that it is very thin and easy to hide. I have read vet articles saying that is safe and helpful for cats.Maybe you could give it a try.

 

[pocho]

Good to know if needed allergy pills can be used. Since going back to rabbit exclusively his itchy skin problem is barely there. He did accept venison in canned NV but only mixed with rabbit. For now though I am doing the recommended 12 week one protein so I have some time to source out other proteins. Looks like everyone likes hare today. It is an incredible ride educating myself for the sake of my Giuseppi and I am so grateful to make connection with others who are so far ahead of the game. Thanks