Ragdoll, Siamese or neither?

[willowlondon]

Hello all

We recently adopted two gorgeous kittens. They are 6months old, brother and sister and absolutely adorable.

The lady we adopted from said the kittens were ragdolls. But neither of them have very long fur and our vet didn't think they looked much like ragdolls.

Can anyone shed any light for us? Just curious!

Many thanks x

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• willowlondon
• Aug 23, 2013

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• willowlondon
• Aug 23, 2013

 

[sivyaleah]

Beautiful kitties.  They surely are NOT Ragdolls.  I'm not an expert by any means but they seem to be some kind of Siamese variety or, a mix of same.  We have several people here who will be able to help you much better than I can but I wanted to let you know at least they aren't Ragdolls.

What was the story behind you adopting them?

 

[willowlondon]

Hi Sivyaleah! Thanks for your reply. The kittens were originally bought by the lady we adopted from's brother - he moved overseas and as she has 4 other cats she couldn't keep them all. She is a friend of a friend and we were put in touch since we were looking for two kittens to adopt. We had mentioned we were ideally looking for ragdolls because of their placid nature and because we will probably keep them indoors. She had bought a ragdoll kitten from the same breeder as her brother- which we saw when we were there and it was already much fluffier than them both but had very similar colouring.They both have lovely temperament anyway and we actually prefer short hair so its worked out perfectly but I am just curious if anyone has any ideas so I can let the vet know (they currently have them down as siamese on their opinion). Also just incase there are any breed particular traits/illnesses I should be keeping an eye out for.

 

[StefanZ]

They are look alike old type siamese, nowadays often called for Thai.   They even look decently for them, not just barely pet quality, I think.    IF they were purebred with papers and all from a recognized association, you would prob do OK at shows. Not win them, but nobody would laugh.  So I think.

But with the ex owner thinking they are Ragdolls, ie dont having any clue save they are pointed, and of course dont having any clue either about their parents, they are beautiful short haired, pointed moggies.  Or domestic´s.

It is even not sure their parents were pointed. If both parents were carriers of the pointed gene, some in the litter would be pointed, and often enough, be look alike siamese old type.   Such happens for example now and then among the Russian Blue.   They arent used for breeding, but they are fondly being held as loved pets and nice examples of Natures Wonders.      (AND remind of the history of RB, as blue pointed siameses WERE used once upon a time to broad the genetic base, when there become too few of the original RB).

Tx for sharing!

Good luck!

ps.  I see now  WillowLondons second post, where you explain somewhat more of the background. So the seller wasnt the breeder?

Contact the breeder and ask what was really done?

They are still no ragdolls, but possibly mix from them, with some cat who did carried the point gene, but not gene for long fur.

Ie one parent could possibly be ragdoll, while the other surely wasnt.

Planned mix or Ooops??

Welcome to our Forums!

 

[maewkaew]

Beautiful pair !    They certainly aren't Ragdolls!  

 It's possible they may  be Siamese.  ( and I say that with caution since there are SO many pointed shorthair cats passed off as some sort of Siamese).      I do think the coats look a bit long and plush for pure Siamese ( I mean of either type , modern or old style/ Thai ) .  but it can sometimes be hard to tell from a couple photos 

but here's a cat I know is a real old style Siamese.  can you see the way the fur breaks on his chest?   and i think seems to lie a bit flatter.  

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 THat doesnt always show in every photo though.   . 

    It's possible your kittens may be Siamese mixes.   maybe  similar to my old cat Louis adopted from a rescue but originally  from a breeder who was breeding Siamese to pointed domestic shorthairs and selling them as some sort of  Siamese  .   ( He was an absolutely wonderful cat and sure got the Siamese intelligence.) 

Siamese are usually  high energy, active cats and stay that way into adulthood.   so if these are indeed Siamese  or have a lot of Siamese in them,  I hope they won't drive you nuts when you were hoping for placid! 

     They're also usually very human-oriented ,  very loving and loyal.   

Can the lady contact the brother who originally had bought the kittens?  surely he only would have got them a few months ago and must remember what breed he bought.     and maybe you could get the registration papers transferred to you?  Any reputable breeder would either have provided the actual individual registration papers or   slips  that the buyer can send in  to individually register the kittens.  

  It would be nice to let the breeder know they've ended up with you and you're happy with them.   

 re health.  Siamese do sometimes tend to have some kidney problems  ( actually many cats have that problem both pedigree and moggies   )   so i would definitely have them on a mostly wet diet ,  and avoid feeding much fish or high phosphorus food.

     and after they get their 1 year panleukopenia (aka  feline enteritis,  aka feline distemper)   booster,  do not vaccinate more often  than every 3 years     That's perfectly safe, since Duration of Immunity studies have shown it lasts at least 7  years and quite likely for lifetime.  ( I am not saying do not vaccinate for Panleukopenia at all !   All kittens should get their vaccines and then it's not a bad idea to do the booster a year later.) . 

 

Re possible link between the panleuk vaccine and feline chronic kidney disease   http://www.dcavm.org/11septnotes3.pdf

http://www.catinfo.org/docs/VaccinesNephritis.pdf

 

[willowlondon]

Thank you so much for all the info both! I have sent the lady a message to try and get further info on the brother/breeder and will see if she gets back to me! They are full of beans but I was putting that down to them being kittens! They are definitely loving and loyal and follow us around like shadows.Thanks again for all the help- I will let you know when I hear back from her regarding this.

 

[sivyaleah]

They are a stunning pair. I would have a hard time passing them by!

Keep us updated.  Obviously, we all love seeing photos lol.

 

[maple syrup]

The second picture looks almost exactly like our Kipper... Except our little guy has some snowshoe in him (white back paws, and white splash on the front toes)  So our little guy is not a pure bred siamese.  The second picture looks to be a Chocolate point, but the top little one in the first picture will probably be Seal point. They don't look apple face to me (the Thai siamese) .

You will love these little ones.  The siamese traits are very affectionate, vocal and playful.  They will love being together especially in an indoor house.  Some great places to climb and get up high would be awesome for them.  They will be easily leash trained if you have a space for them to go outside with you. Our little guy loves a good trip outside (Daily- and will pout at me from the top of the fridge when I don't give in).  I use the other end of his leash for a chase toy and he will run all over the yard with me.  I find if he's had a bit of outdoor time with me he is less likely to bolt when the door is open. A very light tether is optimal - we found a thin nylon one for cheep at the pet store after buying the ribbon style one and found it to heavy for him.

Our little guy will also play tag with me in the house. And you will find when they are high energy that they will go at a full run through the house.  It is a good idea to socialize them with all your friends who visit.  We have found that ours love all manner of human - big and small, and doesn't have a mean bone in his body.

We've been feeding our little guy raw.  Great for keeping healthy kidney function.

Here's a picture for comparison.  He is 7 months old

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• maple syrup
• Aug 22, 2013

 

[willowlondon]

Maple thanks so much for your reply!! Kipper is gorgeous and I love his name!

We are in the process of building a tall cat tree type construction in our bed room so they can get right up high and look out our windows. Also we recently took them out in the garden on their leads- they love it! I'm glad you say it curbs kipper's desire to bolt as I worry about that when letting myself back in. We are on the look out for a much lighter and longer lead for them as they get more confident out there. I'm so glad they are getting used to the harness as they seem to love the garden.

They have met lots of friends and family and are very friendly and inquisitive, I'm so glad!

Everything you said in your post rang true- they are affectionate and playful. Not too vocal or loud as yet although Dennis does like to talk whilst he goes to the loo bizarrely! They do the mad dash around the house you describe also!

The lady we adopted from has gone suspiciously quiet after my recent questions and messages so I think perhaps she feels awkward so I won't press the matter since it is irrelevant to us anyway now!

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• willowlondon
• Aug 25, 2013

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• willowlondon
• Aug 25, 2013

 

[maewkaew]

Hmmm  if she's not wanting to answer.. it's possible they were like from an " oops"  litter and might be something like a Siamese x Ragdoll cross.?   Or it could be she is just very busy or having an Internet problem or something.  

Anyway they are very cute and sound like they are great cats and really enjoying life with you!  

 

[willowlondon]

Hello again everyone.

I thought I would update with some more recent pictures as we never heard from the lady regarding their breed.

Dennis has grown loads and is now quite heavy and dark. Squish is more petite and had very light cream/white body until the last month or so where she has darkened up a bit too. Is this age? Or the winter months? I mentioned on another thread how her spay patch was super slow at regrowing and is still a dark grey patch!

Would be interested to hear any further thoughts - someone mentioned tonkinese to me when they saw them.

 

[willowlondon]

I didn't add any pictures!

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• willowlondon
• Dec 13, 2013

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• willowlondon
• Dec 13, 2013

 

[maewkaew]

 They  DO have a look of a pointed Tonkinese.    but I am suspecting some Western ancestry in the mix here.   something like a mix of  old style Siamese and pointed moggy  (or carrying the pointed gene).   or even something like Siamese and pointed Brit!   The old Style Siamese I've seen  that look like the real thing -- and definitely the ones from the UK --  have more  pronounced muzzles,  shorter coat and somewhat finer boning.      But they may be Siamese mix.     ( or could be Tonk mix,  though they're less common.) 

 Odd she said they were Ragdolls, though.     I would expect better eye color in a UK Siamese of most types  crossed with a Ragdoll ,  though I guess that is not impossible. 

Anyway,   they are VERY cute!

 Yes, it is normal for pointed cats to get darker as they age.   Some end up a lot darker than others;  there are various factors involved.

It's also normal for the place where she was shaved to grow in darker at first especially if that's done in cool weather,  because  the skin temperature influences the color.  Probably what will happen is that eventually  ,  like in the spring ,  when she sheds and grows in new coat,  it will gradually grow in lighter  and will eventually blend in to the rest.  But it can look pretty strange for a while.  LOL !  

 

[kris2425]

I seen your post and I couldn't believe my eyes ...they look just like my little Willow .(RB) you are so lucky that you have such beautiful babies

 

[JannyCat]

I realize this is an old thread, but these cats are most likely half ragdoll. I have a ragdoll/tonkinese who looks just like your guys, although a bit darker and a bit of ginger on her face as her dad was a flame point ragdoll. My girl has the short coat too, but it feels like silk -, it's super soft and she's quite petite (thinking that's the tonkinese in her). My male is also half ragdoll but he looks purebred. Mixed breed cats don't always take on the looks of whatever they're mixed with.