Questions about raw recipe

[selfus]

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I’ve decided to follow the recipe without raw bones on www.catnutrition.org until I am able to purchase a meat grinder. I have some questions about the supplement mixture. The recipe I am going by is as follows:

- 3 lbs locally-sourced chicken thigh

- 7 oz locally-sourced chicken liver

- 2 cups water

- 4 tbsp bonemeal

- 2 tbsp unflavored gelatin

- 4 organic egg yolks

- 4000 mg fish oil (from anchovies, sardines, and mackerel)

- 800 IU dry vitamin E

- 200 mg vitamin B-50 complex*

- 4000 mg taurine

- ¾ tsp iodized salt**

1. Rinse the chicken thigh.

2. Chunk up 1/3 of the chicken thigh. Refrigerate.

3. Grind the chicken liver with the remaining chicken thigh. Stir and refrigerate.

4. Fill a bowl with 2 cups water and whisk in remaining ingredients (gelatin last).

5. Combine the thigh chunks, ground meat, and dissolved supplements.

6. Portion into ¾ cups per bag. Freeze.

*I am confused about the dosage for the B-50 complex. How many capsules is 200 mg? Is it 4? I purchased the NOW B-50 complex, and the supplement facts PER CAPSULE are as follows:

     -50 mg thiamin

     -50 mg riboflavin

     -50 mg niacin

     -50 mg vitamin B6

     -400 mcg folic acid

     -50 mcg B12

     -50 mcg biotin

     -40 mg pantothenic acid

     -50 mg PABA

     -50 mg choline

     -40 mg inositol

**I do not have the Lite salt that is listed on the original recipe. Do I just split that measurement in half if I’m using regular iodized salt? The original recipe calls for 1.5 tsp of Lite salt.

I plan on having 3 meal times throughout the day. I do not have a food scale, so I can’t weigh the finished portions. About how much (in cups) should I be giving my Maine Coon cat, who is female, not spayed, currently 15 pounds (I believe the ideal weight is closer to 12-13 pounds), 9 or 10 years old, lives indoors?

Thanks!

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[selfus]

Update: I wasn't able to find Dry E, so is it OK to use E liquid capsules? I was also not able to find beef gelatin - is Knox gelatin OK? The ingredients are just gelatin, but it doesn't say where it's sourced. Thanks!

 

[mschauer]

The B complex is confusing isn't it? If you use 1/2 of a capsule of the NOW B-50 complex you'll be in good shape. I use 1 capsule of NOW B-100 complex for a 13 lb recipe.

You really want to try to find the lite salt. It provides potassium in addition to iodine and of course is lower in sodium that regular table salt. Using 1/2 of what the recipe calls for but using regular iodized salt is fine for a batch or 2 though.

Liquid E is fine. I think there is an advantage to the dry E but I can't think of what it is. Might just be convenience. 

As far as I know all gelatin is made from animal bone and usually from beef so I'm sure the Knox is fine. The gelatin is optional. It's good for replacing some of what you would get from using whole bone but it isn't critical.

If no one else answers about how much to feed in cups I'll get back to you on that in a little bit. I'm thawing some of my raw food. When it is thawed I'll tell you how any cups for an amount in oz.

 

[selfus]

Thanks for the quick reply! I just looked at catnutrition.org again, and in parentheses after the B-50 complex it says to use 4 of the B-50 caps. So should I be using 1/2 capsule or 4 capsules?

 

[mschauer]

I'm getting a deja vu feeling! This question came up in another thread recently. The catnutrition recipe calls for a lot more B-complex than other recipes. I guess if you are going to use their recipe you should use it as is. (I'd feel quite comfortable with using a lot less though.)

I measured my raw food. 1 cup is about 7 1/2 oz. 

 

[mschauer]

BTW, B6 is the most delicate of the B vitamins and the 1 capsule of B-100 that I use for 13 lbs of meat and organs provides 19x the AAFCO minimum recommendation of B6. I think that is a pretty good safety margin.

Here's a link to a recipe of mine with nutritional analysis:

Chicken Recipe

As you can see all the B vitamins are well over the minimum recommended with just the 1 capsule. 

 

[selfus]

Thank you! I used 1 of the B-50 capsules instead of 4. The mixture was sloppier than I anticipated! My cat really likes it.

 

[selfus]

I'm kind of surprised at how much taurine is used. The recipe called for 4000 mg - I bought 500 mg capsules, so ended up using 8. That seems like a lot?

 

[mschauer]

 
Thank you! I used 1 of the B-50 capsules instead of 4. 

I think that's a good compromise! 

 The mixture was sloppier than I anticipated! My cat really likes it.

I usually adjust the added water to make the food come out the consistency I want. Beef usually needs more water than chicken. It's wonderful that your cat likes it! 

 
I'm kind of surprised at how much taurine is used. The recipe called for 4000 mg - I bought 500 mg capsules, so ended up using 8. That seems like a lot?

My recipe has 10 g (10,000 mg) so 4000 mg doesn't seem excessive to me. Taurine is an amino acid that is critical to good health in cats and is somewhat delicate so it's a good idea to add more than you think is needed. Excess is just excreted so there is no worry about toxic build up. That's is also true of B vitamins by the way.

Edit: After a bit of googling I've learned that even some of the B vitamins can be toxic in humans if consumed at extremely high doses over a long period of time. The equivalent toxic dose in cats, assuming cats would be affected in the same way as humans, would be much higher than what we are discussing here with the possible exception of the B amounts in the catnutrition recipe. I'll have to play around with the numbers a bit to see if the catnutrition recipe is close to the theoretical toxic level. Likely it isn't but I'd like to see the numbers...