Questions About Raw for IBD Kitty

[mikuchu]

I am trying to move towards a raw diet for my cat Spaz who is 16 years old and suffers from IBD. 

He has been a kibble head for his whole life. The past several years multiple vets have bounced him from one prescription kibble to another. I finally decided on my own to move him to wet food. That in the least stopped the vomiting. However, he still kept losing weight.

I recently transitioned him to Honest Kitchen Prowl which is a dehydrated raw food. He is now finally gaining weight after losing steadily for nearly a year.

I would like to go whole prey as it seems to be the best way to be assured he is getting everything he needs and nothing extra.

Below are some questions I have in regards to whole prey and IBD:

Will his stomach be able to digest the bones correctly?

I've seen some sites say IBD cats may have problems with bones.

Will he be more susceptible to bacteria or parasites that may be in the food since his immune system may be compromised?

I've read that cats are pretty hardy against bacteria but I've also seen mention that cats with immune system issues may not be able to handle bacteria as well.

How likely am I to find vomit with feathers, fur and "bits" in it?

My female eats feathers off of all her toys and then throws them back up. I've had to de-feather, de-tail and de-whisker all of the toys in the house because of her. 9_9

Has anyone found a budget friendly way of going whole prey?

So far it looks pretty costly. I'll likely end up spending more money on cat food than people food as it's going. Even Rad Cat seems more affordable.

Is any nutrition lost during the freezing process?

Especially if frozen for a period of weeks or months.

Any thoughts on whole prey vs. other forms of raw feeding for IBD? I don't like the idea of buying bags of ground critter since they typically don't use a single whole animal per bag. It's usually a bunch ground up at once and then put into bags. How do I know how much calcium I get in a bag? Did I get 4 livers and only 2 hearts? Did a thyroid make it in that particular bag? Seems impossible to be sure without grinding it myself.

Thanks in advance for your help!!!

 

[oakshimmer]

Hello

I have an IBD kitty too who I just switched to Raw because she has chronic diarrhea. At the moment I am feeding her ground meats one of whole prey and the other is Nature's Variety raw which is a mix of meats and veggies

. I buy her a commercial diet because I am a little intimidated by preparing the raw for my cat myself. She is doing very well on this diet and has not had any diarrhea since the 100% switch.

I think that switching your kitty might just be the answer you are looking for, as a lot of people have done the switch and have seen some wonderful results.

My kitty is on 5mg of prednisolone 1x every other day and so far I have had no issues as far bacteria is concerned.

Is your cat on any medications for his condition?

Getting your cat on a probiotic would be a good start. Most give their kitty's 10 billion CFU acidophiles plus bifidus once everyday with their meal. You can use a human grade supplement. This will help your kitty with digestion and also provide some good bacteria to his tummy.

I can't give you answers in regards to prey model feeding as I don't know much about it. But I have heard that some people who don't want to feed bone do use supplements for a calcium replacement. I am pretty sure someone will be along soon to further answer some of your questions.

Best of luck with your kitty, I hope he feels better soon.

 

[ldg]

I don't actually know if there's anyone active here that's feeding whole prey exclusively? :dk: I do know raw will (usually) help an IBD kitty, and often quite quickly. A high protein diet, with a healthy GI system, should help kitty gain weight and lean muscle mass. :nod:

I transitioned 8 cats to raw beginning in January. I used commercial raw to start. I now make homemade prey model raw.

Four of my cats are 10, one is 9, one is 8, one is five, and one is five or six. Several of us transitioned at around the same time earlier this year, and mine was relatively easy, and it was still a LOT of work with a few of them. It took a couple of months (and a lot of time at meals) for several of them to really transition. There was a reasonable amount of vomiting along the way - usually a one time thing, because I introduced a new protein too quickly. With IBD kitties, there may be a reaction of diarrhea instead of vomiting - but again, it's usually a one time thing, and you should use the litter box as your guide to how slowly or quickly to proceed. :nod:

But some kitties - especially long term kibble kitties - don't recognize raw as food. The transition you made to all wet will sure help! But you'll just have to see if she recognizes whole prey as food to eat. :dk:

One of my 10-year olds, Lazlo, completed chemotherapy at the end of January. Chumley (five or six) is FIV+, Tuxedo (10) has an autoimmune disease that causes anemia. Flowerbelle (9) has high blood pressure and arthritis in her hips. Sheldon has a sensitive stomach. So some issues. (And they're all doing great now!) But I had NO issues with adverse reactions to bacteria, no food poisoning, nothing like that.

I do provide a daily probiotic (acidophilus+bifidus, 10 billion CFU) to help ensure they've got healthy gut bacteria, and I started them on this 2 weeks prior to feeding raw. But most cats really don't have an issue, even IBD kitties. If the meat has been properly handled and stored, that minimizes the risk.

Just as by FYI, when mine were still eating ground food, I tried whole animal from http://www.hare-today.com. Three of the 8 liked mouse. I couldn't do anything to get any of the others to eat any - and it was ground. But if you're in the U.S., you may want to consider using whole ground animal to make the transition to raw, and then move to whole prey?

Theoretically, the whole ground animal mixes are .... mixed. :dk: I would have continued to feed whole ground animal from HT, but several of my kitties preferred chunks to ground, and wouldn't eat ground any longer. So in order to keep them on raw, I had to go PMR (prey model raw). But had I been able to keep them on ground food for 100% of their meals, my thinking was that it doesn't matter how much of what is in the ground mix, it will "average out" over time. :nod: And I still believe that would be the case.

As to the question about nutrition and freezing... the issue with nutrients is oxidation. Freezing doesn't degrade the nutrients, oxidation does. Freezing whole prey, oxidation shouldn't be an issue.

I home my ramble helped a little.

 

[mikuchu]

Oakshimmer, Spaz isn't on any medications yet. I'm trying to give dietary changes a good go first. Funny thing is I only just recently had a vet even mention pred. Before that I was just told to feed high fiber or bland dry diets. 9_9

I've tried probiotics in the past and he got real bad diarrhea. Oddly it wouldn't start for a week or more after starting him on the probiotics. Then once it did, and believe me there was no missing that sign, I'd stop the probiotic and his diarrhea would clear up. I tried it on two separate occasions with the same results. Maybe I'll give it another try since he has had some improvements in his condition the past couple months.

I too am hugely intimidated by home made raw diets. I'm so afraid something will be missing or he won't get enough of something. Oddly I still trust food companies to get the formula right. I guess I don't learn, do I? =/

LDG, you transitioned 8 cats?! You must have the patience of a saint. Spaz isn't too difficult. He can be persuaded by gradually offering something over the course of a couple weeks alongside his usual meals. My little girl, on the other hand, can push a person to their limit. Right now I'm trying to find something she'll eat because she doesn't seem to like the most recent batches of her usual food from Natural Balance. So I got a bunch of other canned foods that I've tried offering up and I've thrown away many bowl fulls of food. -_-

I'm going to have to get food into her real soon. She doesn't even like people food so I can't even bribe her with some cooked chicken. I can't imagine trying to get 8 cats on the same page. LOL...you must have had a different feeding routine for each one while doing that!

I am happy to hear from you both that bacteria has not been an issue. I think I'll start working some ground raw into the diet to transition. Maybe offer up a mouse or chick now and then as a treat. I tossed a couple feeder mice to them last night. They looked more squeamish than I was about it. After liberally coating the mice in the cat's favorite treats Spaz showed some interest. He did a thorough job of cleaning the crushed up treats off the mouse. It got a pretty good bath. He even picked it up and shook it a few times to get the treats underneath. You could see he was intrigued by the mouse. Miku, however, hid behind a box in the hall and peeked over it at us. She wanted absolutely nothing to do with it and looked a little mortified that Spaz was actually touching the thing. ^_^;

Oh well. Baby steps. They got us this far. I appreciate your advice and thoughts. And love success stories. Gives me hope and a bit more confidence! ^_^

 

[ldg]

Question - what probiotic did you use? If it was Fortiflora, I'm going to have to suggest you try a different one. :nod: Fortiflora gave Chumley explosive diarrhea, but the one I use helped him. I use Natural Factors double-strength acidophilus+bifidus. It's a human supplement. Most pet supplements have fermentation products in them, not live cultures. :nod:

 

[ldg]

:lol3: I LOVE the mouse story!

You're absolutely right - baby steps. :nod: The trick is to get them thinking of it as food.

I must say - during the transition I think I would have been a LOT more frustrated if we didn't have the feral colony. All the food they didn't eat did not go to waste. And if I was throwing it all away.... I might really have wanted to give up at some points. :lol3:

Let's see.... when Lazlo was going through chemotherapy, he had some SERIOUS bouts of not wanting to eat. Tricks: warming up the food and using toppers. Toppers were: Fortiflora (horrible probiotic, great enticement for some kitties), freeze dried meat treats - especially liver, parmesan cheese, tuna juice, sardine water, crushed temptations treats....

 

[oakshimmer]

Oakshimmer, Spaz isn't on any medications yet. I'm trying to give dietary changes a good go first. Funny thing is I only just recently had a vet even mention pred. Before that I was just told to feed high fiber or bland dry diets. 9_9

 That's actually really good. I only got on the pred because nothing else was offered, and their recommened "prescription diet" was not working. A diet change will likely do the trick for you little sweetie.

I too am hugely intimidated by home made raw diets. I'm so afraid something will be missing or he won't get enough of something. Oddly I still trust food companies to get the formula right. I guess I don't learn, do I? =/

I am still intimidated.... that's why I go with the commercial raw right now. It helps me overcome my fear a bit better. There are a few good company's that provide some good sources in the USA, like Hare Today as LGD mentioned or you could try you cat on some Nature's Variety to start, they do sell it in a sample size bag for about $5.00. At least you wouldn't have to spend too much just to see if your kitty will eat it.

I am happy to hear from you both that bacteria has not been an issue. I think I'll start working some ground raw into the diet to transition. Maybe offer up a mouse or chick now and then as a treat. I tossed a couple feeder mice to them last night. They looked more squeamish than I was about it. After liberally coating the mice in the cat's favorite treats Spaz showed some interest. He did a thorough job of cleaning the crushed up treats off the mouse. It got a pretty good bath. He even picked it up and shook it a few times to get the treats underneath. You could see he was intrigued by the mouse. Miku, however, hid behind a box in the hall and peeked over it at us. She wanted absolutely nothing to do with it and looked a little mortified that Spaz was actually touching the thing.

That is too funny! And very cute too. If you do decide to get a commercial ground raw, there are plenty of options available. But never feed your kitty ground meats from the grocery store.

You can get a meat grinder and grind all your meats if you like though.  Patience is key sometimes, but eventually it will pay off. And yes take things slow, even if you are only offering a tsp at a time. Just let your kitty set the pace!

 

[mikuchu]

LDG, one of the probiotics I used was Animal Essentials Plant Enzymes and Probiotics. That does make sense about the fermentation. Someone at a pet food store had once mentioned that the problem could be if it is a plant based probiotic I used. I couldn't find any other kind for pets so I gave up not fully understanding what the issue was. Mentioning fermented vs. live cultures made the light bulb flicker on. Thanks!!!

I will try to find the one you mentioned or something comparable to what everyone is using here. I have wanted to get probiotics in him for a while since he has had antibiotics just about 6 or 7 months ago and a long while back he had worms and had to have some strong dewormers that I'm sure did his stomach no favors. I would even say that his symptoms started to become noticeable within a year of that incident. I'm excited to try probiotics again. I think it could make a big difference in his tummy troubles but I was directionless as to what to give him. Vets were just pushing the same products that I was trying and having bad luck with. Ahhhh...it's nice to renew hope every so often! Thank you both for giving me a little push back in that direction again!

I do find that parmesan cheese can sometimes get my stubborn ones eating. For Miku I've been putting a little tuna flavored cat food on her meals to get her eating again. This is day three of her protest since refusing to eat her usual food because of some change they must have made to it. She won't eat anything else I've tried either. Just this one tuna flavored pouch food. I don't want her eating it all day everyday though. I may order some of that Fortiflora to sprinkle on her food to get her eating again. LOL...aside from that the only way to get her to sit still to eat is to follow her around and hold the bowl in front of her face. THEN she eats. What a little brat! 9_9

 

[ldg]

Oh they are MASTERS of manipulation! :lol3:

Actually, what the holistic vet told us to do was "find a human acidophilus supplement with 10 billion live cultures." We went to the local health food store, and asked for their best probiotic with that. :lol3: We went home with the Natural Factors. It's also available on amazon:
Carolina's using it for her IBD kitty, and he hasn't had an issue with it (and is doing really well on it!) But as with EVERYTHING with IBD kitties, I wouldn't use a whole capsule the first time - maybe just 1/4. Make sure it doesn't make things worse, first, you know? :cross: