Question about Urinary food

[kelly vogel]

My 2 year old is also on the RC SO.  He had a blockage in December that landed him in the ER.  He has not been blocked since he started his food, but has had 2 UTI's.  Just a few days ago he had a seizure.  Blood tests show that every enzyme produced by the liver is at very high levels. 

I'm trying to figure out what exactly is in this food that helps with the urinary problems.  I'm looking for an alternative to the RC SO, not only is it expensive, but I'm now wondering if I need to change his diet based on recent events.  Does anyone else have any experience?

 

[vball91]

My 2 year old is also on the RC SO.  He had a blockage in December that landed him in the ER.  He has not been blocked since he started his food, but has had 2 UTI's.  Just a few days ago he had a seizure.  Blood tests show that every enzyme produced by the liver is at very high levels. 

I'm trying to figure out what exactly is in this food that helps with the urinary problems.  I'm looking for an alternative to the RC SO, not only is it expensive, but I'm now wondering if I need to change his diet based on recent events.  Does anyone else have any experience?

Hi Kelly, I've asked a mod to split your post into its own thread that you can get more responses.

Did the vet mention what he caused the blockage? I'm assuming that since he was put on RC SO that it was struvite crystals, but it's good to confirm. Also, when you say that he has had 2 UTI's since then, do you mean actual infections that were treated with antibiotics? Did the urinalysis and or culture & sensitivity reveal bacteria? If so, you are dealing with two different causes of urinary tract issues in cats.

To answer your question about RC SO, the active ingredient is methionine, which is a urine acidifier. Generally, it is used temporarily to bring down urine pH to a more natural acidic level. Struvite crystals tend to form in alkaline pH (usually greater than 7.0). A good site to read up on urinary tract issues and food is http://www.catinfo.org/?link=urinarytracthealth. It is written by a vet and has a lot of great info.

 

[chef g]

Hello....last year I had an issue with one of my cats.....and this past year my daughter had a HUGE issue with one of her ragdoll male cats.  She spent $2,000 on vet bills.  In both of our experiences we have been giving our cats "cranberry extract" on a daily basis.....and the problems have resolved.  She uses a liquid extract from the.....not cranberry juice.  I use a powder extract from the health food store.  It is a 500 mg capsule....I give him have daily....open it and either mix it into his wet food....or add it to a bit of unsweetened greek yogurt and he laps it up.

Also for inflammation I have used Slippery Elm and Oregon Grape to help ease any pain.  

The vet prescribed urinary food are garbage.....look at holistic options.

 

[catspaw66]

The vets prescribe the foods that the company reps push at them. Holistic is better, but some of us can't afford that kind of food. We try to give them the best we can afford and have access to.

 

[vball91]

Hello....last year I had an issue with one of my cats.....and this past year my daughter had a HUGE issue with one of her ragdoll male cats.  She spent $2,000 on vet bills.  In both of our experiences we have been giving our cats "cranberry extract" on a daily basis.....and the problems have resolved.  She uses a liquid extract from the.....not cranberry juice.  I use a powder extract from the health food store.  It is a 500 mg capsule....I give him have daily....open it and either mix it into his wet food....or add it to a bit of unsweetened greek yogurt and he laps it up.

Also for inflammation I have used Slippery Elm and Oregon Grape to help ease any pain.  

The vet prescribed urinary food are garbage.....look at holistic options.

Cranberries contain benzoic and salicylic acids, both of which are NOT good for cats. There is a component of cranberries, d-mannose, which is a simple sugar that has been known to be helpful for bacterial infections in the urinary tract, in particular, e.coli and klebsiella. If your cat suffers from those bacteria, then d-mannose may be helpful, as would antibiotics.

 

[chef g]

Well I do have a couple of very good "holistic" vet books....written by holistic vets.  They do recommend cranberries.  There are also several foods on the market that add cranberries to their foods for this purpose.  Research on the internet also states the use of cranberries for UTI in cats.  Like everything in life....you have to do the research and make your own decisions.  I prefer to stay away from antibiotics if at all possible since they cause many other issues.  All I can say is from experience it has worked wonders for my cats.....and my daughters cats!!

 

[ldg]

Yes, cranberries are included in cat foods and recommended by some. But just because they do the job doesn't mean there aren't better alternatives.


Here is info on benzoic acid, cranberries and cats.

6.3.5 BENZOIC AND PHENOLIC ACIDS

Benzoic and phenolic acids represent 0.57% of the weight of fresh cranberries (Zuo, Wang, and Zhan 2002). Benzoic acid forms 80% of the total organic acids contained in cranberry juice. There exist 14 other benzoic and phenolic acids in cranberry juice, and p-coumaric acid is the most prevalent hydroxycinnamic acid. Many of these acids are bound to glucose and polysaccharides in cranberry (He and Liu 2006).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK92762/


This is a link to a Google book, The Nutrient Requirement of Dogs and Cats, the information on which the AAFCO bases its recommendations: http://books.google.com/books?id=Jz...a=X&ei=ZSH_UcLJLJe-4APU4IGwDg&ved=0CDYQ6AEwBA

The "safe limit" is 200mg/kg of body weight for 15 days. FYI, it is the benzoic acid in aspirin that makes it cause death in cats.

If the UTI issue is struvite crystals, it is much safer to supplement with methionine to a high protein, no grain, low carb wet food diet. Methionine is an amino acid in meat. That's why so many people with FLUTD cats switch to a raw diet. It is naturally acidifying, targets the correct urine pH, and requires no supplements.

 

[chef g]

Cranberry Extract  is high in Vitamin C and prevents bacteria from adhering to the bladder wall. Women who drink a pint of juice a day had 63% reduction in recurrence of urinary tract infections, and it is also excellent for Pets with chronic UTIs. Dosing schedule…1/4-1/2 capsule twice daily for cats & small dogs, 1 capsule twice daily for medium and large dogs and 1 capsule three times daily for giant breed dogs

This is just one of the many findings.....and great results from postings of vets along with animal owners.  Like I mentioned before...you have to do the research.  If you follow the rules of the FDA, AFFCO...and in Canada the CFDA....that is where the real problems start.

And as far as the urinary prescribed vet food.....there are numerous articles by holistic vets stating they cause more harm than good.

 

[peaches08]

FYI: current research published in The Cochrane Library shows that cranberry juice, tablets, and pills do not prevent or treat UTIs.

 

[chef g]

Ok...I didn't join this forum to DEBATE issues.  I am just stating from experience from myself, and others.....along with FYI research.  Everyone has to make their own decisions.

I know it works for me....works for my daughter....and works for countless other people who post their own results.  It all boils down to the decision of the pet owner.   

 

[peaches08]

This isn't a debate. It's about finding the most current information to better help our cats. I'm sorry that you were offended by my response.

 

[goholistic]

My Boo has not had any more urinary issues since I've switched him to a high protein, low carb, grain free diet, more wet food with additional water added, and water fountains to encourage drinking. His first blockage landed him in the ER, and the vet put him on prescription C/D food. Even on that diet, he got another blockage, so I was convinced something else needed to change.

I'm not sure about the seizure and elevated liver enzymes. It sounds like there could be something else going on in addition to the urinary issues.
 

 

[ldg]

Ok...I didn't join this forum to DEBATE issues.  I am just stating from experience from myself, and others.....along with FYI research.  Everyone has to make their own decisions.
I know it works for me....works for my daughter....and works for countless other people who post their own results.  It all boils down to the decision of the pet owner.   

This isn't a debate. It's about finding the most current information to better help our cats. I'm sorry that you were offended by my response.

And cats aren't people, and cranberries - despite being recommended by vets, holistic vets, books, blogs, etc. are dangerous to cats for all the above stated reasons.

As vball91 pointed out, it is the D-mannose in cranberries that prevents two strains of common sources of UTIs - E. coli and Klebsiella - from adhering to the bladder wall, as you point out in your quote about cranberry extract. D-mannose can be administered without the rest of the cranberry. As can vitamin C.

This isn't about debate. If you wish to use cranberry extract for your cats, please feel free to do so. But the forum is about learning, and so the information is shared for the benefit of anyone reading the thread. You recommend cranberry extract, and it has helped your cat(s). Yet it can be dangerous, and people should know that, and make an informed decision. :dk:

 

[chef g]

Totally agree....high protein, low carb, grain free....is the best option.  I also add additional water to wet food.  I can't do RAW as it won't work with my lifestyle....but do like the freeze dried raw options.  

 

[peaches08]

It's the d-mannose/bladder theory that I was referring to. In humans, recent research has given inconclusive results. Again I'm referring to human peer-reviewed studies, but I'm not aware of any studies (recent) that show positive results in cats. Unless there is a difference between the strain of e coli that cats get vs humans, it would seem to me that the results would be the same.

A factor that lots of people don't think about when using cranberry juice and UTIs: increased hydration leads to flushing of the bladder. And that's always a good thing.

 

[peaches08]

FWIW Chef G, I do homemade raw and not only came out cheaper than canned, but my cats are healthier. As a nursing student who sometimes has to ask others to feed my cats for me, raw is easier. I have it measured out into individual portions so all the person has to do is take it out of the fridge and put the bowls on the floor.

I can also brag that literally, my cats' poop doesn't stink. :lol3: