Question About Cat-to-cat Introduction/behavior

[ads3j]

I am trying to socialize a (semi?) feral cat in my home that I rescued from my yard. She is the mother of my resident cat (Millie) who was also rescued from the yard at 7 weeks of age. Anyway, I have the mother cat (Lilly) in a safe room, where she'd been learning to live in the house for just over three weeks now. In this time we've been slowly(?) re-introducing them to each other via a baby gate. For the most part, they seem to be cordial, Millie (resident cat) has growled and hissed a few times, but not recently. Lilly (new/mother cat) seems not to be too worried about Millie, even seems to be going out of her way to come to the gate when she hears her. For example, and this leading up to my question, lately, she'll come off her window perch (only comes out from under the chair at night, where she sits on a window perch and looks out or engages in play time with us) when she hears Millie using/scratching her litter box which is out in the hallway but well within earshot of Lilly if the door is open. She'll hear Millie using her litter, then comes off the perch and meows to her and waits at the baby gate for her to come.I know ferals don't generally meow, and I know that cats only are supposed to meow at people, but she is very clearly doing this in reaction to hearing Millie.

Tonight Millie seemed to want to be in the room with Lilly, even going so far as to look at jumping the baby-gate (which I am closely monitoring when it's up and the door is open). My questions are:
1. Is it possible, or has anyone else experienced a cat calling out to another cat to get their attention? (I've never owned cats before Millie).
2. When do I know it's time to let the cats meet w/o the gate? Millie seems a bit unsure still, cautions, and has jumped on the gate and Lilly will run away but almost immediately return as if to suggest she's not all that afraid of Millie. Is this play?

If I get my hand too close to Lilly she'll hiss to warn me to back off, but at night she has started playing like a baby kitten, rolling on her back (especially when she sees Millie) and flopping all over the room while chasing after a string. She is certainly getting more comfortable in her safe room, but there are clear signals she still wants us to keep our distance, so I'm not sure if it's the same for her and Mille.

3. Is it more important for Lilly to warm up to us (the humans) or Millie first? I suppose it's more important for her to get along with Millie because she may never let us touch her. But, I am so new to all of this I really don't know - I've ready EVERYTHING I could possibly read on cat-to-cat intros, and introducing a feral to resident cat, but there are just things that aren't all that clear to me still.

Thanks for any guidance and experienced advice.

 

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Also, as far as body language goes, Millie will jump on the fense, but Lily will sort of run under her safety chair for a second, but is immediately coming back out to play in front of Millie. Also, at times Mille will lay down and just watch Lilly play, but if Lilly gets too feisty that when she seems to knee-jerk react and want to jump at the fense. Her tail is swishing back and forth, but not always at a frantic rate, sometimes just the tip of her tail as she does when I talk to her or she is excited to play. She'll spend some time staring/watching at Lilly up close, and then a bit further back from the gate, and other times she just walks away "unimpressed". I am not sure I"m reading all of this cat-language correctly, maybe someone else has more experience and will have some thoughts?

 

[Norachan]

Hi ads3j How long have you had Millie? How old is she now?

Cats have great memories, they probably do remember each other. I reintroduced a semi-feral cat to her brother and sister after about a year apart and they got along fine within a few days. I kept them separate at first, then let them see each other from a distance and then finally sniff at each other through a crack in the door.

There really is no time table with cat introductions. Every cat is different. Are they both spayed? That will make things go a lot more smoothly.

If you can pet Lilly I suggest getting something that smells strongly of you, a pillow case or a t-shirt for example, and using that to pet Lilly and then Millie. Having a shared "Family Scent" can help them accept each other.

Are you able to pet and pick Lilly up?

 

[ads3j]

Thank you for your response, Norachan!
I have had Millie for about 10 months now we suspect she'll be 1 mid-August.
I can't touch Lilly yet, she is still leary of my hand, although she has touched it a few times when I put it down on the ground palm down. Last night I stuck my hand under the gate and she was playing and ran to it, I jerked it back nervously (it was an uncontrolled reaction) and she hissed at me a little. Then I did it again and she came and smelled it.
So, that means I can't rub her with a sock and exchange her sent with Millie that way. I have exchanged their beds and allowed Millie to smell her bedding and vise-versa. Also, I let Millie smell the towel that was in her cage after we took her to the vet to be spayed (so, yes they're both spayed now). I have also put strong smelling clothing under Lilly's food bowl of me and my husband so she has our scent as well. The room she's in is a spare bedroom with a window cat tree and a chair, Millie's scent is/was all over that room as she'd spent time in there too looking out the window prior to it becoming Lilly's safe room. They play with the same soft-stringed felt strip which both bite and chew the end. Millie smelled it and was licking it last night. So hopefully the exchanging of scents is being incorporated daily.

Should I wait to let them have access to each other until I can pick Lilly up? Should I be able to touch/pet her first? Maybe it doesn't matter. I was thinking that as long as they get along, I don't mind if she ever lets us pet her (although, I'm desperately wanting to brush her and love her).

Also, I can't allow Lilly out of the safe room yet to explore the house because I'm afraid she'll go hide somewhere and I won't be able to put her back. She's showing some interest in what is going on outside of the room.

Thanks again, it's an exciting, but overwhelming time.

 

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Oh, I forgot, I found it so interesting that you think they know each other, I've heard that they lose their scent after being away from each other for so long (for Millie that's 9 months). That's very interesting, I hope they do, and that Millie is wanting to play with her, not chase or attack her.

Also, one of the women from the non-profit that helped me trap Lilly said I made a mistake not keeping Lilly in a cage and she'll likely never let me pet her now. That I should have kept her in the cage and worked on touching her (using a back scratcher type stick) before letting her out. I am wondering if this is true. I opened the cage doors and gave her access to the safe room fairly early on, maybe 5 days after we brought her into the house (after she was seen by a vet and spayed/shots etc...), so she stays under the chair during the day, but at night she transforms into this super playful kitten/cat. It's totally jekyll and hyde, she's rolling on her back, jumping, skidding across the room and being so perfectly adorable. I do love her so much.

 

[ads3j]

Whoops, another comment, sorry!

About the meowing - do you think she's calling to Millie? I am certain of it, she seems to WANT to see Millie when she hears her and will stop, turn her head and jump down to go to the gate when she hears her. Millie seems much more apprehensive, but very curious. I have heard/read so many things that say ferals don't meow (Millie doesn't even meow that much, it took her months to "squeak" for food) and that cats only meow at other humans. I'm very curious what you/others think about that.

HUGE MILESTONE REACHED THIS AM!
As I completed writing this this morning, I did the typical feeding each of the cats with the door/baby gate open at a distance ritual I've adopted. After eating, Lilly bathed herself and stayed OUT and came to the gate to greet Millie, they CALMLY approached each other for a sniff and then each retreated a bit w/o any charging or aggression at all. Lilly has always gone back under her chair after eating to hide but today after some time at the gate, she went to the corner to a sphinx pose and they both just watched each other. Millie won't eat much when Lilly is out eating, she seems too interested in Lilly (she went into a sphinx pose to watch and not eat). I feel these are big steps and can't wait to open the gate for a real face-to-face. Hopefully it won't be long now

 

[Norachan]

Some of mine had been feral for a long time before they came to live with me. I know people say they have to be socialised early on if you ever want to pet them, but I don't think that's true. It can take a bit longer (Over a year with some of my feral rescues, less than a day with others) but I don't think you should give up on the idea of ever being able to pet Lilly.

I didn't use a back scratcher. I used to distract them with a toy or a treat and then gently touched their backs near the base of the tail. If they can't see your hand coming they don't try to avoid you and you can gradually build up the amount of time you pet them.

Another thing you can try is sitting on the floor in her room with a blanket over your legs. Use a wand toy to get her attention and then encourage her to run over your legs. They are usually so focused on the toy that they don't realise they are walking on you. They think you are just part of the blanket.

But that's something you can try in the future.

Yes, I agree. It's not a good idea to let her out of the room until you are confident that you an get her back in there.

I'm sure she is meowing to Millie. Mine all call for their buddies when they see them and chatter away to each other when they've been apart for a while.

Is that Millie in your avatar picture?

 

[ads3j]

Those are two really great tips I hadn't thought of! I have tried rubbing her face with the end of the wand toy and she seemed to enjoy it the first time, but wouldn't allow it again. I really will try both of those. Thank yoU!

 

[ads3j]

This is Millie in my avatar - our princess And I've attached a pic of Lilly. We adore them both and I appreciate the encouragement of being able to pet her. I dream of the day.

 

[Norachan]

They are both so pretty! Gorgeous markings.

 

[ads3j]

Thank you!

 

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So, yesterday I decided to open the baby gate and see what happened. Lilly was under her chair lying on her side relaxed and Millie was in the hallway and she also seemed relaxed, so I got the notion to see what would happen since they were both so interested in each other.

Millie walked in an began to sniff around the room, when she spotted Lilly under the chair she went under with a semi aggressive approach and Lilly stuck her paw out very sweetly, Millie gave a bit of a hiss and backed off a bit went around the room sniffing and sorta charged again in a aggressive manner. Lilly backed up and seemed a bit frightened, but didn't get aggressive back and I picked up Millie and took her out of the room to keep it a very short visit (she wasn't happy about my picking her up, growled and hissed hard at Lilly on her way out.

Last night, Lilly heard Millie again and seemed really eager to greet her at the gate for a play, but, of course, Millie only watched and seemed rather calm, maybe a bit unsettled, but calm.

This morning, (a first!) Lilly stayed out after eating her breakfast, seemed to be looking for Millie, I played with her and she had a fun time even went to her window perch afterward (during daylight hours!!!) and when she heard Millie came down for a looksey so I opened the baby gate and Millie was eager to enter the room, had another look around sniffing the littler boxes and all Lilly's toys then went after her under the chair. Today, Lilly hissed back and Millie stepped back a bit and then went for her again, Lilly hissed and I believe there may have been a swat or two, but it wasn't all in a fury, not like they were engaged in a battle, but more like testing each other. I was afraid it may get worse, so again, I picked up Millie and we retreated from the room so that Lilly wouldn't feel overwhelmed and for Millie to calm herself. I believe she nipped me (Millie) as I carried her away from the room and afterward, seemed eager to go back.

Any thoughts on this exchange, is it normal? Have I rushed things? Or, is this the natural progression? Should I not allow them to meet face-to-face any more until I'm absolutely sure there won't be ANY aggression?

Thanks in advance for reading this long-winded write-up. I'm really anxious about their being friendly to each other. I don't want to make a mistake, it seems these things are so dependent upon how they are introduced that I'm afraid I'll screw it all up.

 

[Norachan]

A little bit of hissing is to be expected, so don't worry about that.

What's their body language like? Tail held straight up, at half mast or down below the height of their hips? Hackles raised or fur lying flat? Eyes wide open and pupils dilated or a more relaxed gaze? Are either of them rolling, either in front of the other cat or just after you separate them?

Have you tried using a Feliway Diffuser? They sometimes help to keep things calm.

Feliway Diffuser / Feliway / Feliway

 

[ads3j]

Hi Norachan,

Yes I'm using the Feliway multi-cat diffuser and it's hard to read their body language because they're under the chair during these exchanges. But Millie's pupils have been dialated when she's watching Lilly but Lilly will roll around on her back and play in front of Millie. Just now, Lilly and Millie were calmly lying on the floor in front of each other and suddenly, when Lilly moves Millie will jump at the gate. Lilly will maybe retreat, but only momentarily, then she goes about her business. I believe she's very brave due to the gate. I think I'll wait a few more days before I let them meet again, but am wondering if I should open the gate when Lilly is out from under the chair next time, but I was thinking that because Lilly was relaxed under the chair it would be a more calm exchange. But afterward, I felt like I let Millie in when Lilly was more vulnerable (in her safe spot and not ready for an encounter). I really appreciate your response. I think I'm just over thinking, maybe I just need to let them have their gate time w/o any exchanges for a while longer before I try opening it again.

Thank you so much.

 

[ads3j]

So I have officially opened the gate and am letting Millie and Lilly have one-on-one time together and, for the most part, I'm very happy with their exchanges. There has been very little growling in the beginning and some hissing now and then, but they seem to be happy to see each other. However, I do have a concern I would love help with. Millie (resident cat >1yr (10 months) is stalking and seemingly obsessed with Lilly (semi-feral rescue) and while it seems to end in chasing for play or stalking to play (Millie just wants to touch the tip of her tail and play), Lilly seems to be hissing a lot at her as though she's trying to establish boundaries with Millie. Millie is so interested I can't even keep her away from Lilly, meaning, even when they are separated Millie will just sit outside Lilly's room door and wait for her. Now, at times, Lilly provokes Millie for play and seems to want to challenge her for play but quickly gets hissy when Millie overwhelms her. I am curious - should I been limiting their time together more? Or, just the opposite, do they need to get more used to each other to reduce the curiosity?

Side note, Lilly is exploring outside her safe room (on the second floor) and now has discovered that she loves to be under my bed and wants to stay under there. Of course, these are Millie's places and there must be some establishing of who's space is who's and I've witnessed Millie doesn't seem to want Lilly to explore or get too comfortable outside the safe room. I'm not sure how to control all of this and feel like I've made a mistake allowing them to spend so much time together so soon (1 month in) but, they do seem to be getting along for the most part, so I'm just not sure. They are eating in front of each other and exploring the other's litter boxes too. These are good signs, right??

 

[ads3j]

To simplify, Millie seems to at times, but controlling Lilly's movements and exploration with stalking and chasing her back under the furniture, however, Lilly is also seems to be able to let Millie know when to leave her alone by swatting at her and hissing, when this occurs, Millie obliges and rolls over on her back and seems to transition from stalker to player. But I worry Lilly isn't going to be able to explore or have any peace, although at times they just sleep next to each other. How long does it take for them to get used to being together? (when things are going pretty well?)

 

[Norachan]

It sounds like its going well so far. They're curious about each other, but back off when the other cat lets them know they've gone to far.

A few things you could try;

When Lilly is out exploring the rest of the house put Millie in Lilly's room and close the door. This will give them both chance to explore the other"s space without risking a confrontation.

Try to engage Millie in play with a wand toy or laser pointer. If she is focused on a toy she might not be so keen to stalk Lilly.

Sleeping next to each other is huge! If they feel confident enough to sleep while the other cat is in the room it shows they trust each other. Great progress so far.

Are you able to pet Lilly at all yet?

 

[ads3j]

Thank you Norachan, good ideas. I have been trying to play with Millie but she's fixated on Lilly - she'll play now sometimes, but seems more interested in Lilly's next moves. Also, Lilly is very curious about the stairs, but hasn't explored downstairs yet. She only stays looking around the top floor (so far). I haven't been able to pet Lilly yet, however, she's very curious about my hands and feet. She's play attacked my feet from under the bed and when I put my hand flat down on the floor she'll sniff it and smack at it a bit, sometimes very slowly and gently, and sometimes she mimics a swat (but doesn't really). I am going to shut Millie in Lilly's room next time I see Lilly exploring. Thank you. OH, also, yesterday I saw Lilly using Millie's litterbox. I was a bit disturbed at first, but noticed Millie scratching in Lilly's box too - but I don't think she actually used it, it was more like she was covering Lilly's bathrooms for her or something. I googled it, and it seems to be okay for them to share.(?)

 

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UPDATE w/more questions
So, Lilly and Millie are together all the time now and really seem to have a good time together. They get along, sleep next to each other, eat next to each other, chase each other all night long and play, a lot! They are playing really rough too - a full-on contact wrestling style, mostly initiated by Lilly (the new cat) but sometimes Millie will want to play chase and Lilly wants to wrestle. Lilly is much more "scrappy" than our pampered Millie, she really seems to be having a good time though, and they LOVE playing in the side room curtains (which are acting as a door). My question is, I've never seen them groom each other, they are really play fighting all the time. I know it's play, and clearly they are enjoying each other which I am SUPER happy about, but, I am curious if this is all a pre-cursor to grooming? Do some cats never groom each other? Will this rough-play ever turn into more gentle adoration? I am curious to learn others' experiences. They do touch noses and sit in the same window at night together, I am certain they like each other very much, but wondering if Lilly's being a feral has anything to do with how rough she plays. Also, another question, we have no idea how old Lilly is, so I am sorta curious if this is proof of her being a very young cat still. Millie (her daughter) seems more calm than Lilly. I also wonder (now i'm rambling) if Lilly is making up for all the time she couldn't be a kitten. She was always pregnant and nursing or hunting for her kittens - we observed her movements and life for 8 weeks via cameras prior to catching her as well as 9 months prior by just feeding her in our back yard, so I know she was always pregnant, running, hunting and just trying to survive. Thanks for reading and sharing your thoughts/experiences, I do enjoy the community.

 

[Norachan]

It sounds like it's going really well. If they will sleep next to each other it shows that they trust each other completely. That's a really good sign.

Not all cats groom each other, but if they are eating, sleeping and playing together there is no need to worry about this.

I'm sure Lilly is making up for lost time. One of my feral rescues seemed to go back to her kitten state once she was comfortable indoors. It's like they know they can finally relax now.

Great update, thanks for keeping us informed.