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Sometimes she is in such a hurry to eat she doesn't even bother standing up
From start
to finish!
From start
to finish!
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Queen Eva has a food allergy
- Thread starter otto
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I'm so glad our Queen Eva is putting that weight back on!
She is such a beautiful, special girl.
I hope the positive eating trends continue.
Such great newsOriginally Posted by otto
Queen Eva has had one normal poop every 24 hours or so for the past 48.
She is learning to eat just the two foods (merrick before grain beef, EVO herring and salmon grain free kibble) every day.
I love my vet!
Is she kneading her paws while she eats? Awwwww!
I am so glad that she is doing better!
I am so glad that she is doing better!
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Thank you!Originally Posted by Mystik Spiral
I'm so glad our Queen Eva is putting that weight back on!She is such a beautiful, special girl.I hope the positive eating trends continue.
Thank you!Originally Posted by NutroMike
Such great newsI am so glad she is doing better. I am keeping my fingers crossed.
She's not kneading, but you know what, Jennie does sometimes knead when she eats. Queen Eva doesn't knead at all, except just recently: a couple of times she has jumped on me when I am reading on the couch when I have this soft "summer" blankie over me, and tried some inexpert type kneading. She's kind of spreads her paws wide and wanders all over, but it's very endearing and I hope she does more of it.
Update to follow.
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Queen Eva had her vet visit yesterday. She has lost a whole pound since this problem started. This concerned the vet greatly, especially after I mentioned she had already gained a little back since the diet change. After a thorough check up the only thing found other than the weight loss was a lot of gas in Queen Eva's belly.
So, vet advised blood work, which I agreed to. We've started her on Proviable dc made by NutraMax, an excellent probiotic made specifically for cats and dogs. It comes very highly recommended to me from our own Carolina, and I was glad to find out my vet carries that now instead of Forti Flora. (I am less enamored of Forti Flora than I once was because of certain ingredients)
I rather gagged at the price of the Proviable dc and have found it for a more manageable price at entirelypets.com which is where I get my other NutraMax products too (Mazy's cosequin for cats and .Tolly's denosyl) though I did take some home to get her started. Like the cosequin and denosyl it is a supplement, not a 'drug', so I do not need a prescription for it. I know that entirelypets buys directly from the NutraMax manufacturer so I feel comfortable getting these supplements from them.
We talked at length about diet, in case the current diet does not pan out in the long run, and further testing, in case things get worse. The diet try vet would recommend is the Hills z/d, it is made with the hydrolyzed proteins. which simply means the proteins are already broken down, making them easier for the cat to digest. While I am the first to speak up and say prescription diets have their place, I really really do not want to put her on that food.
Further testing might include an ultrasound or a scope procedure to 1) see what's going on in there without opening her up and 2) take tissue samples for a biopsy.
None of that is stuff we are doing now, just for future reference.
For now, Queen Eva continues on the two foods, the Before Grain Beef canned making up the bulk of her diet and the Evo Herring and Salmon to add extra protein and fat and calories (40% and 18%, 133c for 1/4 cup) and one dose of Proviable dc daily.
She again managed to steal some of Tolly's food Thursday night and had an extra poop, of the "sick" variety because of it, early Friday morning, but nothing but her own food since then, so hopefully she's back on track.
PS Queen Eva has been with me 11 months. She has been to the vet 6 times and I have spent over $1000, just in vet bills, in her first year. I haven't the slightest regret. Rather, when thinking along these lines my thought is to shudder to think what would have happened if she had ended up in the wrong hands.
So, vet advised blood work, which I agreed to. We've started her on Proviable dc made by NutraMax, an excellent probiotic made specifically for cats and dogs. It comes very highly recommended to me from our own Carolina, and I was glad to find out my vet carries that now instead of Forti Flora. (I am less enamored of Forti Flora than I once was because of certain ingredients)
I rather gagged at the price of the Proviable dc and have found it for a more manageable price at entirelypets.com which is where I get my other NutraMax products too (Mazy's cosequin for cats and .Tolly's denosyl) though I did take some home to get her started. Like the cosequin and denosyl it is a supplement, not a 'drug', so I do not need a prescription for it. I know that entirelypets buys directly from the NutraMax manufacturer so I feel comfortable getting these supplements from them.
We talked at length about diet, in case the current diet does not pan out in the long run, and further testing, in case things get worse. The diet try vet would recommend is the Hills z/d, it is made with the hydrolyzed proteins. which simply means the proteins are already broken down, making them easier for the cat to digest. While I am the first to speak up and say prescription diets have their place, I really really do not want to put her on that food.
Further testing might include an ultrasound or a scope procedure to 1) see what's going on in there without opening her up and 2) take tissue samples for a biopsy.
None of that is stuff we are doing now, just for future reference.
For now, Queen Eva continues on the two foods, the Before Grain Beef canned making up the bulk of her diet and the Evo Herring and Salmon to add extra protein and fat and calories (40% and 18%, 133c for 1/4 cup) and one dose of Proviable dc daily.
She again managed to steal some of Tolly's food Thursday night and had an extra poop, of the "sick" variety because of it, early Friday morning, but nothing but her own food since then, so hopefully she's back on track.
PS Queen Eva has been with me 11 months. She has been to the vet 6 times and I have spent over $1000, just in vet bills, in her first year. I haven't the slightest regret. Rather, when thinking along these lines my thought is to shudder to think what would have happened if she had ended up in the wrong hands.
I'm thinking........
Most often when there is a digestive problem, weight loss is a sign of inflammation and that the body is having trouble absorbing nutrients.
However...... my question would be, did the weight loss start before the diet change, or after?
And......could it be even remotely possible that she might need more food for maintaining/gaining weight than she is eating right now?
It would be important for you to try to figure this out because whatever answer you come up with will either show that things are going in the right direction, or that further testing (and possibly even some medication) may be helpful.
If necessary - depending on how things are going with the present diet - I would ask for the fPLI test and an ultrasound first and leave scoping for last. (I would definitely want to rule out anything going on with the pancreas and would want to look for signs of inflammation with the ultrasound.)
By the way, would you happen to know whether the stool sample (the bacteria in the stool sample that is) you took in was examined for pathogenic bacteria? (Normally they check for worms/parasites, this test looks for bacteria that can be involved in IBD.)
I really hope you'll be able to get this problem under control with diet, probiotics, etc, and avoid scoping.
Most often when there is a digestive problem, weight loss is a sign of inflammation and that the body is having trouble absorbing nutrients.
However...... my question would be, did the weight loss start before the diet change, or after?
And......could it be even remotely possible that she might need more food for maintaining/gaining weight than she is eating right now?
It would be important for you to try to figure this out because whatever answer you come up with will either show that things are going in the right direction, or that further testing (and possibly even some medication) may be helpful.
If necessary - depending on how things are going with the present diet - I would ask for the fPLI test and an ultrasound first and leave scoping for last. (I would definitely want to rule out anything going on with the pancreas and would want to look for signs of inflammation with the ultrasound.)
By the way, would you happen to know whether the stool sample (the bacteria in the stool sample that is) you took in was examined for pathogenic bacteria? (Normally they check for worms/parasites, this test looks for bacteria that can be involved in IBD.)
I really hope you'll be able to get this problem under control with diet, probiotics, etc, and avoid scoping.
Hi otto... Poor little QE is sounding a bit like my Bugsy isn't she? I do also wonder what would have happen if ha had fallen into the wrong hands - well... I actually know for certain, he wouldn't be alive
So I am glad he is with me, even though he keeps me on my toes and his vet bill are through the roof... I love him more than I can explain
He is my heart kitty, the love of my life!
Anyways, I do agree with the TLI test, along with a Cobalamin and Folate test. the TLI test is sent over to Texas A&M (as far as I know). Some cats with IBD or inflammation have B-12 deficiency and supplementation can help greatly on those cases. On the other hand, Folate levels can indicate bacterial overgrowth.
That along with a fecal bacterial test should help the vet rule out some possibilities. Go towards inflammation or bacterial overgrowth for example (in Bugsy's case, an extreme bacterial overgrowth caused the inflammation) - everything else was ruled out (for the time being).
I know it is a very very long road, but I would do everything possible before putting her through surgery - I did for Bugsy.
He is having issues right now... His appetite is really low
I am not sure what is going on... If hairballs or something, but I think we have a vet trip coming up this week.... Blood tests and such.... Sometimes I feel I am in a never-ending roller coaster....
I just hope I don't fall into the surgery route again - it is the only thing left for my little man For our little Queen!
Anyways, I do agree with the TLI test, along with a Cobalamin and Folate test. the TLI test is sent over to Texas A&M (as far as I know). Some cats with IBD or inflammation have B-12 deficiency and supplementation can help greatly on those cases. On the other hand, Folate levels can indicate bacterial overgrowth.
That along with a fecal bacterial test should help the vet rule out some possibilities. Go towards inflammation or bacterial overgrowth for example (in Bugsy's case, an extreme bacterial overgrowth caused the inflammation) - everything else was ruled out (for the time being).
I know it is a very very long road, but I would do everything possible before putting her through surgery - I did for Bugsy.
He is having issues right now... His appetite is really low
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Thanks for your replies Violet and Carolina!
Queen Eva's stool sample was sent to a lab for a slew of tests to the price of about $300. I forgot to get the papers before I left , so I can't tell you right now exactly what those tests were, but all were negative.
The vet of course went over them with me, but...brain like a sieve you know, and I didn't write it all down since I expected to have the print out. I'll be back there on Tuesday for Tolly's routine check up, so I will have all the papers after that, and will answer those questions then.
The only test that was not done was the Trichomoniasis and that is because the stool sample wasn't fresh enough, but the likelihood of that, my vet feels, is small, as her symptoms don't really add up to Trichomoniasis.
I'm not sure when the weight loss began. She's so slender to begin with. The diarrhea completely stopped after I took her off all foods containing any chicken. There has been no diarrhea since then, except on two instances when she managed to steal some of Tolly's chicken foods. But in an effort to make sure she was eating enough her diet was varying widely, different canned foods almost every day, but none that contain chicken.
This was when she began having those giant stools three times a day. She was eating a very large amount of food, 8 or 9 ounces of canned; of Merrick brands (other than poultry flavors), some California Natural, and I know it's awful but I was garnishing the food with some fancy feast classic fish flavors, in order to get her to eat. I was using only the FF that is on the diabetic approved list, but still, I hated using it, but felt desperate for her to eat enough. Some of these foods contain some grains, and other vegetable matter. In addition she was having a quarter or more cup of grain free dry, first the Natural Balance pea and duck (a disaster) and then the Evo herring and salmon.
Vet instructions were to stop feeding so much variety, and to stop offering a replacement food when she refused the food we wanted her to eat. Vet wanted me to feed ONLY the Evo herring and salmon kibble (grain free food) but I balked at that, and insisted on keeping her on one canned food too, the Before Grain beef.
Almost immediately after stopping all the extra foods, the frequent giant soft stools stopped. For a few days she had two BMs a day, of normal texture color and size, and then that dropped to one normal size shape and texture BM, every 22-23 hours.
Some of the weight loss certainly happened early in this transition, because she did miss a few meals, as I followed vet's instructions. (put the food in front of her at meal times, if she refuses it, pick it up and don't offer anything else until next meal time)
However, she soon began eating when served, without me garnishing, or following her around etc.
Queen Eva is now eating 5.5 oz of Before Grain beef canned food a day (135 calories) and about 1/4 cup of Evo grain free herring and Salmon kibble (130 calories). She eats the serving that is put in front of her (as long as there are no distractions), but does not, ever, ask for more. I feed five times a day on a schedule. They fast for about 9-10 hours, from 11 pm until 8 or 9 a.m.
She is extremely active, so while 265 calories would be way too much for the older cats, the hope is that she will now begin to gain back that lost pound. Queen Eva has always self regulated, so I think when she no longer needs quite so much food, she will cut back on her own. She is having one normal size, shape, color and texture bowel movement a day on this diet.
The proviable dc probiotic has been added because vet did say she seemed very gassy. She suggested, without pushing, the z/d, but I said no, I am not ready to go that route yet.
Queen Eva has a beautiful coat, soft and silky and shiny. Her eyes are bright clear and dry, her teeth white and clean (I brush them), heart and lungs sound, temperature normal, no abnormalities felt when her body is palpated.
Her energy level is normal for a one year old cat.
Blood was taken for superchem and cbc (electrolytes) (also retested for FeLV-negative). Her bladder was empty so a urinalysis was not done.
I'll bring her in next Friday and get a weight on her to see if she's starting to gain again. By then of course we'll have the blood work results in.
I have gone extremely broke, all this on top of what I spent rescuing Blue, which I had not quite recovered from yet, has caused me some hardship, but I won't complain. Even if I'd known this expense was coming, I would have done the same for Blue as I did.
Vet may allow Tolly to skip a bloodwork, he is doing so well and that will help me a little.
Queen Eva's stool sample was sent to a lab for a slew of tests to the price of about $300. I forgot to get the papers before I left , so I can't tell you right now exactly what those tests were, but all were negative.
The vet of course went over them with me, but...brain like a sieve you know, and I didn't write it all down since I expected to have the print out. I'll be back there on Tuesday for Tolly's routine check up, so I will have all the papers after that, and will answer those questions then.
The only test that was not done was the Trichomoniasis and that is because the stool sample wasn't fresh enough, but the likelihood of that, my vet feels, is small, as her symptoms don't really add up to Trichomoniasis.
I'm not sure when the weight loss began. She's so slender to begin with. The diarrhea completely stopped after I took her off all foods containing any chicken. There has been no diarrhea since then, except on two instances when she managed to steal some of Tolly's chicken foods. But in an effort to make sure she was eating enough her diet was varying widely, different canned foods almost every day, but none that contain chicken.
This was when she began having those giant stools three times a day. She was eating a very large amount of food, 8 or 9 ounces of canned; of Merrick brands (other than poultry flavors), some California Natural, and I know it's awful but I was garnishing the food with some fancy feast classic fish flavors, in order to get her to eat. I was using only the FF that is on the diabetic approved list, but still, I hated using it, but felt desperate for her to eat enough. Some of these foods contain some grains, and other vegetable matter. In addition she was having a quarter or more cup of grain free dry, first the Natural Balance pea and duck (a disaster) and then the Evo herring and salmon.
Vet instructions were to stop feeding so much variety, and to stop offering a replacement food when she refused the food we wanted her to eat. Vet wanted me to feed ONLY the Evo herring and salmon kibble (grain free food) but I balked at that, and insisted on keeping her on one canned food too, the Before Grain beef.
Almost immediately after stopping all the extra foods, the frequent giant soft stools stopped. For a few days she had two BMs a day, of normal texture color and size, and then that dropped to one normal size shape and texture BM, every 22-23 hours.
Some of the weight loss certainly happened early in this transition, because she did miss a few meals, as I followed vet's instructions. (put the food in front of her at meal times, if she refuses it, pick it up and don't offer anything else until next meal time)
However, she soon began eating when served, without me garnishing, or following her around etc.
Queen Eva is now eating 5.5 oz of Before Grain beef canned food a day (135 calories) and about 1/4 cup of Evo grain free herring and Salmon kibble (130 calories). She eats the serving that is put in front of her (as long as there are no distractions), but does not, ever, ask for more. I feed five times a day on a schedule. They fast for about 9-10 hours, from 11 pm until 8 or 9 a.m.
She is extremely active, so while 265 calories would be way too much for the older cats, the hope is that she will now begin to gain back that lost pound. Queen Eva has always self regulated, so I think when she no longer needs quite so much food, she will cut back on her own. She is having one normal size, shape, color and texture bowel movement a day on this diet.
The proviable dc probiotic has been added because vet did say she seemed very gassy. She suggested, without pushing, the z/d, but I said no, I am not ready to go that route yet.
Queen Eva has a beautiful coat, soft and silky and shiny. Her eyes are bright clear and dry, her teeth white and clean (I brush them), heart and lungs sound, temperature normal, no abnormalities felt when her body is palpated.
Her energy level is normal for a one year old cat.
Blood was taken for superchem and cbc (electrolytes) (also retested for FeLV-negative). Her bladder was empty so a urinalysis was not done.
I'll bring her in next Friday and get a weight on her to see if she's starting to gain again. By then of course we'll have the blood work results in.
I have gone extremely broke, all this on top of what I spent rescuing Blue, which I had not quite recovered from yet, has caused me some hardship, but I won't complain. Even if I'd known this expense was coming, I would have done the same for Blue as I did.
Vet may allow Tolly to skip a bloodwork, he is doing so well and that will help me a little.
Otto, I just read this whole thread with great interest. I have a kitten with soft stool / diarrhea issues and this morning I switched her to a chicken free canned food hoping that this may finally firm things up. Keeping my fingers crossed.
Anyway, I was wondering how Queen Eva is doing? Has she gained a bit more weight? Did the latest tests reveal anything new? Is she still on the same diet?
I hope she is well
Anyway, I was wondering how Queen Eva is doing? Has she gained a bit more weight? Did the latest tests reveal anything new? Is she still on the same diet?
I hope she is well
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Hi!
Queen Eva is doing very well! We put her on a probiotic called ProViable DC, as it appeared she was having a nutrient absorption problem.
I discovered that the chicken cat foods she cannot eat are the ones made in Thailand (Weruva, Soulistic, Petite Cuisine) because they give her diarrhea.
Currently the bulk of her diet is Caster&Pollux Chicken veggie casserole. Every few days she gets a can of Before Grain Beef, instead. She has EVO grain free Herring and Salmon kibble for snacks, but not every day.
She is eating a normal amount again, but as is normal for her, her daily intake varies from day to day. Yesterday she ate 6 oz of canned food and 1/4 cup of the Evo (not all at the same time). The day before that she ate 4.5 oz of canned food only. It varies like that from day to day.
She gets the ProViable every day now and is having once daily bowel movements that are normal in size shape and consistency for her size and appetite.
She's finally put on a little weight, it is lovely to pet her and feel some padding rather than skin and bones and her coat is plush and glossy.
Her energy level is right where it should be for a 15 month old cat, though she did have a quiet spell when Tolly was sick. Queen Eva is Tolly's Nurse, and she worries over him when he is not feeling well.
She will likely be on the ProViable her whole life.
Her next check up is September 20.
I hope your little baby gets better. It's so worrisome when they don't thrive and you can't find an answer.
Ask your vet about the ProViable DC, it's great stuff. It comes in a capsule, and you just mix it right in their food. Queen Eva likes it, if I forget to throw the empty capsule away she steals it and chews on it.
Queen Eva is doing very well! We put her on a probiotic called ProViable DC, as it appeared she was having a nutrient absorption problem.
I discovered that the chicken cat foods she cannot eat are the ones made in Thailand (Weruva, Soulistic, Petite Cuisine) because they give her diarrhea.
Currently the bulk of her diet is Caster&Pollux Chicken veggie casserole. Every few days she gets a can of Before Grain Beef, instead. She has EVO grain free Herring and Salmon kibble for snacks, but not every day.
She is eating a normal amount again, but as is normal for her, her daily intake varies from day to day. Yesterday she ate 6 oz of canned food and 1/4 cup of the Evo (not all at the same time). The day before that she ate 4.5 oz of canned food only. It varies like that from day to day.
She gets the ProViable every day now and is having once daily bowel movements that are normal in size shape and consistency for her size and appetite.
She's finally put on a little weight, it is lovely to pet her and feel some padding rather than skin and bones and her coat is plush and glossy.
Her energy level is right where it should be for a 15 month old cat, though she did have a quiet spell when Tolly was sick. Queen Eva is Tolly's Nurse, and she worries over him when he is not feeling well.
She will likely be on the ProViable her whole life.
Her next check up is September 20.
I hope your little baby gets better. It's so worrisome when they don't thrive and you can't find an answer.
Ask your vet about the ProViable DC, it's great stuff. It comes in a capsule, and you just mix it right in their food. Queen Eva likes it, if I forget to throw the empty capsule away she steals it and chews on it.
That is a fantastic success story
I am so glad that Queen Eva is feeling well, it gives me hope for Lulu.
What I find really interesting is that it is only certain chicken foods that caused the problem. I read a post the other day where someone, who feeds raw, mentioned that her cat always has problems after eating chicken from one particular supermarket, but not with chicken from other stores. Makes you wonder what they feed and put in those chickens.
How long did it take after switching probiotics and food before you noticed that this was the winning combo? I will definitely check out ProViable DC.
What I find really interesting is that it is only certain chicken foods that caused the problem. I read a post the other day where someone, who feeds raw, mentioned that her cat always has problems after eating chicken from one particular supermarket, but not with chicken from other stores. Makes you wonder what they feed and put in those chickens.
How long did it take after switching probiotics and food before you noticed that this was the winning combo? I will definitely check out ProViable DC.
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Thank you!
I thought I noticed some weight gain after 8 days on the ProViable, but I didn't bring her in to be weighed until a month had passed, and she had gained half a pound at that point.
Queen Eva was on only the Before Grain Beef canned, and the Evo Herring and Salmon kibble, for about two weeks after starting the ProViable, but then she balked at eating the same food every day.
That was when I cautiously tried the new to her brand of Castor&Pollux chicken. She didn't have any problems with it (still doesn't) She and Tolly both really like it.
So she eats that about three days in a row, then I feed the Before Grain Beef for a day, then back to the Castor&Pollux chicken for three days....and so on.
Vibes for your little Lulu, I hope you can get her on the right track.
Lulu
I thought I noticed some weight gain after 8 days on the ProViable, but I didn't bring her in to be weighed until a month had passed, and she had gained half a pound at that point.
Queen Eva was on only the Before Grain Beef canned, and the Evo Herring and Salmon kibble, for about two weeks after starting the ProViable, but then she balked at eating the same food every day.
That was when I cautiously tried the new to her brand of Castor&Pollux chicken. She didn't have any problems with it (still doesn't) She and Tolly both really like it.
So she eats that about three days in a row, then I feed the Before Grain Beef for a day, then back to the Castor&Pollux chicken for three days....and so on.
Vibes for your little Lulu, I hope you can get her on the right track.
Lulu
Thank you so much, otto (for the clover too
). I suppose you know exactly what I feel right now
I just went to the pet store near here, one that carries all the good foods. I couldn't believe it, they carry neither the BC Beef (no demand) nor the small bag of Evo Herring and Salmon kibble.
Then I went to look for Wilderness Duck kibble...no success either.
Ah, well...
I just went to the pet store near here, one that carries all the good foods. I couldn't believe it, they carry neither the BC Beef (no demand) nor the small bag of Evo Herring and Salmon kibble.
Then I went to look for Wilderness Duck kibble...no success either.
Ah, well...
Woo Hoo !!!
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Yes I do indeed know how you are feeling at this time. It's scary and frustrating, nerve wracking, and expensive. All you want to do is enjoy your kitten, and let her live her life, but there is all this other stuff to deal with.Originally Posted by MiLu
Thank you so much, otto (for the clover too). I suppose you know exactly what I feel right now
I just went to the pet store near here, one that carries all the good foods. I couldn't believe it, they carry neither the BC Beef (no demand) nor the small bag of Evo Herring and Salmon kibble.
Then I went to look for Wilderness Duck kibble...no success either.
Ah, well...
I have to buy most cat food on line, where I live there is no pet specialty store. There is a feed store and they carry the Evo, but not the other foods I feed.
Thank you Mike, I'm glad too. I love my baby girl so much, she is a really special little cat.Originally Posted by NutroMike
Woo Hoo !!!Y'all did it! So very glad you have worked this out.
And the way she Nurses Tolly when he is sick is just wonderful to see.
I am not surprised. Tolly was Ootay's
And Queen Eva also has taken up the slack as Mazy cat's playmate, since while Tolly still loves to play, he does not enjoy Tumbling Games as much as he used to.
