Pork in cat food - what's the deal?

[oneandahalfcats]

 
You do realize the processing is the same whether the food contains pork or not? All pet foods are subjected to the same high heat whether it contains pork or not.

Well if you just consider pigs to be an animal that is "too dirty" to eat, that is a completely different issue. 

I didn't say that pigs are too dirty an animal to eat. My husband and I consume a fair amount of pork (as mentioned above), but I am careful about the type and source. When you buy pork in a supermarket, you can see what it is and depending on the store, can learn where it comes from. With pet food, you would have no idea unless you had inside knowledge, of what type of pork has been used, or the source.

 

[StefanZ]

 

The idea of pork being unhealthy for cats relates to tapeworm that may be carried by pigs. Historically, undercooked pork was a source of infection to humans,  but trichinosis is a rare occurrence in "developed" countries now.

Also, there is some danger in raw pork  of  Aujesky (spelling?) disease virus, sometimes called for pseudo-rabies.   Its not dangerous for humans, so for humans its no big deal.  While for cats eating raw pork or badly cooked may thus be dangerous.

In highly industrially developed countries they have good control in the slaughterhouses, so for example in Sweden its usually OK to give raw pork to your cat.

But in many countries its not recommendable.  Cow meat is much safer.  Sheeps and goats too OK, I presume.

Another danger are these trichine-worms.  Although this danger is nonexistent  in all modern slaughterhouses, as the control is very good nowadays.   This danger is to see as purely historical. 

They too perish when the pork is well prepared.

I presume pork meat in such a cat food as discussed here is both controlled - and cooked / boiled.... If so, it shouldnt be dangerous, as my guess is - OK for cats.

 

[StefanZ]

 With pet food, you would have no idea unless you had inside knowledge, of what type of pork has been used, or the source.

Its even worse. You must always suspect they used the cheapest awailable source,  ie in clear english - difficult to sell as human food.  Surely so in the cheap brands. The problems is, hearseys tells even quality, costly brands may do this, at least occasionally.

So even if its hopefully not directly dangerous products, we must count they arent really human - grade...  not sell-able in any case.

 

[mschauer]

 

 With pet food, you would have no idea unless you had inside knowledge, of what type of pork has been used, or the source.

Its even worse. You must always suspect they used the cheapest awailable source,  ie in clear english - difficult to sell as human food.  Surely so in the cheap brands. The problems is, hearseys tells even quality, costly brands may do this, at least occasionally.

So even if its hopefully not directly dangerous products, we must count they arent really human - grade...  not sell-able in any case.

I don't know of any reason to believe the quality of the pork used in pet food manufacturing is any different from that of any other meat.  

 

[StefanZ]

 
I don't know of any reason to believe the quality of the pork used in pet food manufacturing is any different from that of any other meat.  

I agree.  I just gave a general comment.    Sorry if it was said at the wrong occasion, interchanged with  part in an ongoing discussion.

 

[mschauer]

 

 
I don't know of any reason to believe the quality of the pork used in pet food manufacturing is any different from that of any other meat.  

I agree.  I just gave a general comment.    Sorry if it was said at the wrong occasion, interchanged with  part in an ongoing discussion.

No problem. But we've been warned once about going off topic.

 

 

[oneandahalfcats]

 
Its even worse. You must always suspect they used the cheapest awailable source,  ie in clear english - difficult to sell as human food.  Surely so in the cheap brands. The problems is, hearseys tells even quality, costly brands may do this, at least occasionally.

So even if its hopefully not directly dangerous products, we must count they arent really human - grade...  not sell-able in any case.

Yes, I agree. I prefer to avoid canned diets that feature by-products for this reason and prefer to stick to meat proteins like turkey, rabbit and duck. A little chicken now and then, but not too much.

 

[Willowy]

Yes, I do know about commercial poultry and a lot of it is pretty grim. There has been a movement in Europe and some in Canada at least, to change the way poultry is raised, going from the battery cage to open barns. Battery cage life is absolutely cruel and should be outlawed everywhere.

I don't think (?) meat poultry are raised in battery cages. That's just for eggs as far as I know. The poultry confinements I've seen are open. Industry standard: open barns. Chicks are de-beaked to reduce pecking deaths. They don't clean the confinement from the time the chicks are put in until they are taken to slaughter so all waste and dead birds stay on the floor of the barn all that time. Nobody goes in except maybe twice a week to make sure the automated feeders/waterers aren't blocked. That's what I've seen personally, both chickens and turkeys.

Anyway, on the topic, I don't see any reason to worry about pork in pet food any more than any other meat. Pet food is all cooked so bacteria and parasites are not a concern. I also see no reason to be concerned about feeding raw domestic pork in the US (any more than any other meat), as Aujesky's and trichinella have been eliminated from the commercial meat supply. Cows and sheep are usually pastured for a large percentage of their lives, but commercial pigs and poultry are not raised outside at all.

 

[oneandahalfcats]

I don't think (?) meat poultry are raised in battery cages. That's just for eggs as far as I know. The poultry confinements I've seen are open. Industry standard: open barns. Chicks are de-beaked to reduce pecking deaths. They don't clean the confinement from the time the chicks are put in until they are taken to slaughter so all waste and dead birds stay on the floor of the barn all that time. Nobody goes in except maybe twice a week to make sure the automated feeders/waterers aren't blocked. That's what I've seen personally, both chickens and turkeys.

Anyway, on the topic, I don't see any reason to worry about pork in pet food any more than any other meat. Pet food is all cooked so bacteria and parasites are not a concern. I also see no reason to be concerned about feeding raw domestic pork in the US (any more than any other meat), as Aujesky's and trichinella have been eliminated from the commercial meat supply. Cows and sheep are usually pastured for a large percentage of their lives, but commercial pigs and poultry are not raised outside at all.

Actually, I think you are right about the battery cages being exclusive to laying hens.

Did you read the article I posted a link to (above) from Dr. Mercola's site regarding consumer reports regarding pork samples? Here it is again : http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/12/12/eating-pork.aspx

When you say that bacteria is eliminated from the domestic meat industry, I think this has the potential to send the wrong message. Bacteria in meat is very much a possibility.

 

[mschauer]

Did you read the article I posted a link to (above) from Dr. Mercola's site regarding consumer reports regarding pork samples? Here it is again : http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/12/12/eating-pork.aspx

When you say that bacteria is eliminated from the domestic meat industry, I think this has the potential to send the wrong message. Bacteria in meat is very much a possibility.

??? No one has said that bacteria is eliminated from the domestic meat industry. Bacteria in meat is not only a possibility it is a certainty.

 

[Willowy]

Consumer Reports also found that a large percentage (I don't remember what exactly) of commercial poultry is contaminated with either salmonella or campylobacter. I don't know if they tested for other bacteria. I guess I don't see why pork is so much worse than that :dk:.

Aujeszky's is a virus and trichinella is a parasite. Not bacteria . There is no way to eliminate bacteria in the meat supply or anywhere else except maybe a constantly sanitized biohazard room.

I'll also point out that the human Mercola site is. . .a wee bit alarmist? I wonder if he has a similar article about poultry. . .

 

[oneandahalfcats]

Consumer Reports also found that a large percentage (I don't remember what exactly) of commercial poultry is contaminated with either salmonella or campylobacter. I don't know if they tested for other bacteria. I guess I don't see why pork is so much worse than that

.

Aujeszky's is a virus and trichinella is a parasite. Not bacteria

. There is no way to eliminate bacteria in the meat supply or anywhere else except maybe a constantly sanitized biohazard room.

I'll also point out that the human Mercola site is. . .a wee bit alarmist? I wonder if he has a similar article about poultry. . .

If people feel that feeding pork to their animals is fine, great. I have no problem with that. But it's been stated throughout this thread (about Pork), that there are no issues with pork, when there have been issues and can be issues with it. If this thread were about chicken, then we would most likely be having a discussion about the chicken industry, and the problems with it. Personally I think there are better protein sources than pork when it comes to feeding cats, but that's just me.

Regarding the Mercola site, why should it be considered alarmist to report the findings regarding pork sources that were found to contain problems with contaminants? Do you think Dr. Mercola has something against the Pork industry? If a pet owner is feeding pork to their cats, then I would expect that they would want to give pause to this information. Ultimately it's up to the individual to draw their own conclusions as to how important this information is.

 

[Willowy]

The majority of pet owners ARE ALREADY feeding their cats pork, that's just kind of the point I'm trying to make. Any unnamed meat source will have pork in it. So it's all kind of moot---cats have been eating pork for years and years and so far it does not seem to cause any particular issues.

No one has said there are no issues with pork. There are issues with every single thing we eat, animal products in particular. It was only said that there are no more issues with US pork than with other meats, and this is true.

Cats need to eat meat. This cannot be made perfectly safe (nothing can really). Animal products inherently have risks associated with them.

No, reporting on the problems in the meat industry is a very good thing. I just wonder how that particular writer feels about the problems in the production of other kinds of meat, if he says the same ("not recommended!!") or if he glosses over those problems.

 

[mschauer]

The majority of pet owners ARE ALREADY feeding their cats pork, that's just kind of the point I'm trying to make. Any unnamed meat source will have pork in it. So it's all kind of moot---cats have been eating pork for years and years and so far it does not seem to cause any particular issues.

No one has said there are no issues with pork. There are issues with every single thing we eat, animal products in particular. It was only said that there are no more issues with US pork than with other meats, and this is true.

Cats need to eat meat. This cannot be made perfectly safe (nothing can really).

No, reporting on the problems in the meat industry is a very good thing. I just wonder how that particular writer feels about the problems in the production of other kinds of meat, if he says the same ("not recommended!!") or if he glosses over those problems.

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This thread started with the question of why there isn't pork in cat food. As has been shown there are cat foods containing pork on the market.

Obviously anyone who feels they would prefer to avoid feeding pork to their cat is welcome to do so. The implication however that anyone who believes otherwise is somehow mis-representing the safety of those foods that do contain pork is just flat untrue. 

 

[ldg]

I had to pop back to this thread to get a few links from it - and I missed this the first time around, it just caught my eye:

My concern is that they're probably not putting white meat pork chops in canned cat food. Are they using whatever is left over from useable meat? "Pork" I think is just an overall term for pig meat, different cuts of meat from a pig can be lean or really, really fatty.

They aren't putting chicken breast in chicken cat food (there may be a few exceptions - Weruva and MAYBE one or two others). They aren't putting ANYTHING other than scraps - garbage - left over from human food production in most commercial (canned) cat foods. As technology improves, more and more of that "garbage" goes back into human food production. Think... chicken nuggets. That is mechanically recovered meat. Yes - there's meat in cat foods, there has to be some. But it would be leftover scraps, mechanically recovered meat - or food not fit for human consumption. Pet grade. This is just one of the reasons why you're so much better off making your own. But those images you have of chicken breast and lamb chops - that's marketing, not reality.

 

[oneandahalfcats]

I had to pop back to this thread to get a few links from it - and I missed this the first time around, it just caught my eye:
They aren't putting chicken breast in chicken cat food (there may be a few exceptions - Weruva and MAYBE one or two others). They aren't putting ANYTHING other than scraps - garbage - left over from human food production in most commercial (canned) cat foods. As technology improves, more and more of that "garbage" goes back into human food production. Think... chicken nuggets. That is mechanically recovered meat. Yes - there's meat in cat foods, there has to be some. But it would be leftover scraps, mechanically recovered meat - or food not fit for human consumption. Pet grade. This is just one of the reasons why you're so much better off making your own. But those images you have of chicken breast and lamb chops - that's marketing, not reality.

What proof do you have that the high-end brands are using 'garbage' in canned wet food? Seems to me that it would be pretty ballsy of a company to use scraps or by-products and then expect consumers to pay almost $4.00 a can! I am speaking of brands such as Nature's Variety Instinct, Hound & Gatos, Dave's. I don't imagine that chicken breast is being used either but I would expect some muscle meat, not scraps.

 

[goholistic]

But those images you have of chicken breast and lamb chops - that's marketing, not reality.

True! 

  Gotta love those pictures on the labels, too.

Sebastian is doing well on the NV Pork, but he didn't do so well on the H&G Pork. Could be a variety of reasons (quality, additives, thickeners, etc.). The H&G was more fattening and the consistency was very gelatinous. I'm not talking bad about H&G by any means; I think they are a great niche pet food company. I just think their pork was too rich for Sebastian.

 

[ldg]

What proof do you have that the high-end brands are using 'garbage' in canned wet food? Seems to me that it would be pretty ballsy of a company to use scraps or by-products and then expect consumers to pay almost $4.00 a can! I am speaking of brands such as Nature's Variety Instinct, Hound & Gatos, Dave's. I don't imagine that chicken breast is being used either but I would expect some muscle meat, not scraps.

I suggest you do some reading if you find the subject of interest. A good place to start is Anne Martin's "Food Pets Die for" or "Not Fit for a Dog," co-authored by Dr. Elizabeth Hodgkins, "a veterinarian who formerly worked in the nutrition department of Hill’s Pet Food Manufacturing, the makers of so-called “Science Diet”. Fox is a world-famous veterinarian and writer of the syndicated “Animal Doctor” column. None of the authors have much good to say about the pet food industry as a whole, or Hodgkin’s former employer in specific."

Here are some starter links for you:

http://www.homevet.com/index.php/diet-discussion/item/315-an-excerpt-from-the-book-food-pets-die-for

http://www.examiner.com/article/food-pets-die-for-most-pet-foods-may-not-be-fit-for-a-dog

As I said, I'm sure there are *some* exceptions. But that would be a serious minority of pet foods. This article includes information from Marion Nestle, the Paulette Goddard professor of nutrition, food studies and public health at New York University, and Malden C. Nesheim, emeritus professor of nutrition at Cornell University, who wrote “Feed Your Pet Right: The Authoritative Guide to Feeding Your Dog and Cat.” Please note: they see the pet food industry as providing a valuable service by using the ... since you object to the word "garbage," let's say "leftovers" of human food production. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/01/health/01brod.html?_r=0

 

[oneandahalfcats]

I suggest you do some reading if you find the subject of interest. A good place to start is Anne Martin's "Food Pets Die for" or "Not Fit for a Dog," co-authored by Dr. Elizabeth Hodgkins, "a veterinarian who formerly worked in the nutrition department of Hill’s Pet Food Manufacturing, the makers of so-called “Science Diet”. Fox is a world-famous veterinarian and writer of the syndicated “Animal Doctor” column. None of the authors have much good to say about the pet food industry as a whole, or Hodgkin’s former employer in specific."

Here are some starter links for you:

http://www.homevet.com/index.php/diet-discussion/item/315-an-excerpt-from-the-book-food-pets-die-for

http://www.examiner.com/article/food-pets-die-for-most-pet-foods-may-not-be-fit-for-a-dog

As I said, I'm sure there are *some* exceptions. But that would be a serious minority of pet foods. This article includes information from Marion Nestle, the Paulette Goddard professor of nutrition, food studies and public health at New York University, and Malden C. Nesheim, emeritus professor of nutrition at Cornell University, who wrote “Feed Your Pet Right: The Authoritative Guide to Feeding Your Dog and Cat.” Please note: they see the pet food industry as providing a valuable service by using the ... since you object to the word "garbage," let's say "leftovers" of human food production. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/01/health/01brod.html?_r=0

Oh I am well aware of the many commercial brands of cat food that contain 'leftovers'  being used as meat sources in commercial canned food.

  Just the mention of Hills and Science Diet is enough of a suggestion to indicate the kind of information I might find in Anne Martin's book, which I was aware, exists out there. My comments are in response to your suggestion that scraps, garbage and leftovers are all one can expect from ALL cans of cat food, and how it is that you know this for a fact. I can't see that this is the case, particularly in the premium brands.

It seems to me that you are saying that people can avoid all of this 'garbage' by simply making their own food. I have said it before that I think a raw or cooked diet is fine, but its not for everyone or every pet, for different reasons. Moreover, what does this say to those who are either in the process of currently switching their pets to a wet canned diet from a dry diet, (because one of us at one point or another made the suggestion that wet is best), or are doing their best in meeting their cats need for a species appropriate diet in feeding a wet canned food. They may be reading these comments and wondering, well gee, I have just switched my cat to wet canned from dry, but based on this post over here, wet canned may not be good enough either? Where does it end, and what becomes good enough. It should be about doing the best you can with what you've got.

 

[AbbysMom]

It should be about doing the best you can with what you've got.

I think it is to a certain extent. This is actually a really good topic for another thread, one I bet would consist of a hearty debate. :lol3:

I always like to tell people to feed the best you can afford that your cat will actually eat. That means completely different things to different people. IMO, no one diet is perfect and will work for every cat, just the same way it is with humans. I am also sick to death of the human scientific food studies that constantly conflict each other. It really comes down to doing the best you can under your circumstances. :nod: