Pondering Raw...

[oakshimmer]

Hello

. I am new to the wonderful world of raw too, I started my IBD kitty on the Nature's variety Instinct chicken raw medallions at $17.00 a bag of 48 medallions. You can also get the trial bag of the NV for $5.00.

I live in Ontario Canada, and I called Carnivora before I bought their Raw Chicken Patties (17.00 for 8lb bag) I didn't ask if their meals were complete, but I did ask about the bone content, which I was told was at 5-7%. I am am under the impression that their whole carcass meats come as a complete diet. But please let me know if you find out otherwise!
 

It seems that the prices depend on the meat type, Chicken is usually the cheapest, so far the lamb is too at about $22.00 for 48 madallions of the NV brand.

Just thought I'd stop by and give you an idea on the price, hope it helps. Good luck with your kitty.

 

[bluebo]

That is the perfect way to do it! There are a number of people that feed only partial raw. It's just fine to feed both, or mix them.

I just know that there is a different digestion rate between raw and kibble (I did the whole PMR thing with my dog for a long time) and I just wondered if the same thing applied to wet and raw. It's ok then?

 

[bluebo]

Hello . I am new to the wonderful world of raw too, I started my IBD kitty on the Nature's variety Instinct chicken raw medallions at $17.00 a bag of 48 medallions. You can also get the trial bag of the NV for $5.00.

I live in Ontario Canada, and I called Carnivora before I bought their Raw Chicken Patties (17.00 for 8lb bag) I didn't ask if their meals were complete, but I did ask about the bone content, which I was told was at 5-7%. I am am under the impression that their whole carcass meats come as a complete diet. But please let me know if you find out otherwise!

 
It seems that the prices depend on the meat type, Chicken is usually the cheapest, so far the lamb is too at about $22.00 for 48 madallions of the NV brand.

Just thought I'd stop by and give you an idea on the price, hope it helps. Good luck with your kitty.

I'll look into Natures Variety Instinct but I have heard it is bone heavy (which would not be good for my constipated boy) but let me know how it works for your cat! There is also a product in Canada called Spring Meadows (it is the raw I fed my dog) if you would like to look into that? It is a bit cheaper then Carnivora or Natures Variety... thank you for the heads up!
I honestly believe raw (even Carnivora or Natures Variety) is cheaper then what I'm spending on canned food right now (50-60 dollars per month).

 

[oakshimmer]

I'll look into Natures Variety Instinct but I have heard it is bone heavy (which would not be good for my constipated boy) but let me know how it works for your cat! There is also a product in Canada called Spring Meadows (it is the raw I fed my dog) if you would like to look into that? It is a bit cheaper then Carnivora or Natures Variety... thank you for the heads up!
I honestly believe raw (even Carnivora or Natures Variety) is cheaper then what I'm spending on canned food right now (50-60 dollars per month).

The bone content in NV is 15%, I have only been feeding it to my cat for about 5 days. So far her poop is getting firm but not too firm, but I will let you know if that changes. I probably would avoid that food because of the bone % in your case. My cat had severe diarrhea not constipation so maybe for her it might be okay. For your kitty it might be okay to eat NV maybe once in a while or a few times a week, but as a sole diet I wouldn't do it.

I looked into the spring meadows, I think you can feed it to your cat too. I will look into the price of that, unless you got some idea? That is a complete meal too right?

 

[otto]

Oooooooooo.... this is so great to see your thread, Bluebo. The first part of the transition is the "thinking about it" part. I was the same way and I have found throughout this whole transition process that it does come in stages and small steps. Both for our kitties and for ourselves. Welcome to the beginning stage :bigthumb:

Yep, me too. Thought about it for a long long time, at first mostly thinking of all the reasons I couldn't possibly do it. :lol3:

Yes I think my pondering may just be the first step to raw! I am sick and tired of carrageenan LOL!
I find cat foods without carrageenan and A. My cat hates it or B. there is some other questionable ingredient (clay) C. It is expensive as h***
I have honestly felt like pulling my hair out.
Raw might be just the answer we are looking for so I am going to continue my pondering... lol :nod:

Again,. that was me. I was desperate to find enough food for Queen Eva and Mazy that they would eat, that they could eat. Each has different issues, but the same bottom line, there just was not enough commercial canned products that fit the bill for them.

I
Finally, another supplement I recommend for a cat on ANY diet is a fish-based omega 3 supplement. You can either feed him a tinned sardine (salt, no water)

Laurie, I hope what you mean here is sardines packed in water, NO salt?

That is interesting about the probiotic and the egg yolk lecithin... I'll look into those.
I do have a fish oil (it's made by Carnivora). I give it to my dog every day so I could just throw some of that in with his food too! Thanks for the suggestion. It's good to know that taurine is easy to come by, I'll be grabbing some.

My cats LOVE the egg yolk lecithin. I've only just started Mazy on it (for hair ball issues) so I can't report success yet, but I see no reason why it won't help her. And I am THRILLED to be not only getting the positive changes with her raw meals, but getting her OFF the petroleum hair ball products.

I caught Jennie licking out the little container I keep the other half capsule in, after I open one. :lol3:

 

[ldg]

Laurie, I hope what you mean here is sardines packed in water, NO salt?

Um, yeah, that's what I meant! :doh3: :lol3:

 

[carolina]

I just know that there is a different digestion rate between raw and kibble (I did the whole PMR thing with my dog for a long time) and I just wondered if the same thing applied to wet and raw. It's ok then?

Perfectly ok :nod:

Ok, I saw your comment on the constipation issue - being that it was an issue when she was on kibbles too - she even had a constipation/hairball blockage. And I mean - take to the hospital to get her unblocked, and get her force-fed for over a week with a syringe afterwards. She had a actual blockage because of it. Raw improved her regularity and motility tremendously. :nod:

I am giving them the egg lecithin again - I say again because Bugsy had diarrhea with it - he does with anything in the beginning.

Think about a raw transition as a kibble transition - meaning, start very slowly.
I started with one TSP. (This applies for my kitties that ate wet). On the first day, I mixed one TSP in their wet meals. In every meal.
Second day, I mixed 2 TSP.
4rd Day, 3 tsp and took off one TSP of the wet.
5th day added 4tsp and removed 2 of the wet..... son on and so forth until that all they were eating was raw food. All meals for that day (3) were always the same)
Every protein (chicken, pork, venison, etc) was introduced once at a time, and slowly.
The first day of a new protein I generally Started with 25% of the new protein and 75% of the old. The new protein was then increased by 25% while the old was decreased by 25% until the new reached 100%.
This prevented stomach upsets and diarrhea. It took 4 days to transition, they were eating 100% a new protein in the 5th day. Once a new protein is fully introduced, you can alternated them as much as you want in between your meals.
There are people who don't introduce meats/proteins slowly as I do - Personally, every time I didn't I had issues - either vomit or diarrhea.... So I highly recommend introducing new meats slowly.
In a cat that ate kibbles its entire life like Lucky, introductions cat take longer, and kitty might not tolerate some meats..... You really need to work at kitty's pace :nod:


Here are some links for you, so you know what to look for:

Now Taurine powder: This will last you well over a year

Egg Lecithin 90-capsules - 1/2 capsule 2x a week. you have 90 capsules here; if I am not completely brain dead, it will last you almost 2 years.
You can give more, if he shows signs of constipation. KEEP IT IN THE FRIDGE!!!

Natural Factors Probiotic - this is a 10 billion CFU Acidophilus and Bifidus probiotic - it has 180 capsules, so it lasts 6 months - Unless momma wants to take too :nod:

Here is the Krill: Now foods Krill oil: 120 capsules, will last you 4 months. You can look for what is available at your health store, just make sure it is capsules and 10 Billion CFU

 

[otto]

Egg Lecithin 90-capsules - 1/2 capsule 2x a week. you have 90 capsules here; if I am not completely brain dead, it will last you almost 2 years.
Y

Oh my gosh, I forgot to put mine in the fridge after I opened it. That was 2 1/2 days ago. Do you think it's okay? Ugh!

(edit) I went to their website and asked. I'll post the answer here, when it comes)

 

[bluebo]

The bone content in NV is 15%, I have only been feeding it to my cat for about 5 days. So far her poop is getting firm but not too firm, but I will let you know if that changes. I probably would avoid that food because of the bone % in your case. My cat had severe diarrhea not constipation so maybe for her it might be okay. For your kitty it might be okay to eat NV maybe once in a while or a few times a week, but as a sole diet I wouldn't do it.

I looked into the spring meadows, I think you can feed it to your cat too. I will look into the price of that, unless you got some idea? That is a complete meal too right?

I'm almost certain that 15% would be too high for my cat. For a cat with diarrhea it would be no problem but my cat has the opposite issue! Lol
I actually just contacted Spring Meadows and he said that there is sufficient taurine in the meat and the supplements aren't necessary (although he didnt tell me the precise amount of taurine in specific meats). AMAZING customer service! I emailed the company last night at about 11pm and he got back to me today at 6:30am and its Saturday today!
What I like about Spring Meadows (besides the customer service) is that the animals are all grass fed/pastured animals + the food contains whole animal+organs+offal+tripe all in one patty! I think I will look into it more....
I fed it to my dog and I think it was also a bit bone heavy (ill have to ask him the bone/organ/meat ratio).

 

[bluebo]

Yep, me too. Thought about it for a long long time, at first mostly thinking of all the reasons I couldn't possibly do it. :lol3:
Again,. that was me. I was desperate to find enough food for Queen Eva and Mazy that they would eat, that they could eat. Each has different issues, but the same bottom line, there just was not enough commercial canned products that fit the bill for them.
Laurie, I hope what you mean here is sardines packed in water, NO salt?
My cats LOVE the egg yolk lecithin. I've only just started Mazy on it (for hair ball issues) so I can't report success yet, but I see no reason why it won't help her. And I am THRILLED to be not only getting the positive changes with her raw meals, but getting her OFF the petroleum hair ball products.
I caught Jennie licking out the little container I keep the other half capsule in, after I open one. :lol3:

Raw does sound really great but I still have certain hesitations.
My hesitations have nothing to do with believing that cats require more then meat- I know that is all they need (with bones and organs of course).
My main issue right now is the bacteria/pathogens (NOT how it effects my cat but how it could effect my kids). I believe that (even though sometimes we would rather ignore it) there are more pathogens on raw meat then in kibble or canned. Yes there are bacterias in those as well but raw meat does have more.
Even if I took all safety precautions there is nothing I can do about him pooping, possibly touching the poo with his paws and him tracking it all over the house. OR even just the remnants on his ummm bum area... he could sit on my couches (I have leather) and spread pathogens that way. Cats also groom themselves, they eat raw meat and then lick themselves all over the place.
I have two kids. One is 5 and the other is 7. My kids are.... well, kids. My daughter is autistic (the 5 yr old) and he puts everything in her mouth (her way of exploring the world).
I have had salmonella poisoning before (don't knew if ya'll have) and it makes me think twice before taking pathogens/bacteria lightly...
I've noticed (NOT referring to anyone on this forum) that some people who feed raw become almost in denial about the pathogens/bacterias on raw meat. I belong to a couple of dog forums and people will throw raw meat on their carpet for their dogs and not think twice about it, and they have KIDS! To me that is insanity.
In a way I think I might stay in my safety zone and continue feeding canned. I feel safer...

 

[carolina]

Raw does sound really great but I still have certain hesitations.
My hesitations have nothing to do with believing that cats require more then meat- I know that is all they need (with bones and organs of course).
My main issue right now is the bacteria/pathogens (NOT how it effects my cat but how it could effect my kids). I believe that (even though sometimes we would rather ignore it) there are more pathogens on raw meat then in kibble or canned. Yes there are bacterias in those as well but raw meat does have more.
Even if I took all safety precautions there is nothing I can do about him pooping, possibly touching the poo with his paws and him tracking it all over the house. OR even just the remnants on his ummm bum area... he could sit on my couches (I have leather) and spread pathogens that way. Cats also groom themselves, they eat raw meat and then lick themselves all over the place.
I have two kids. One is 5 and the other is 7. My kids are.... well, kids. My daughter is autistic (the 5 yr old) and he puts everything in her mouth (her way of exploring the world).
I have had salmonella poisoning before (don't knew if ya'll have) and it makes me think twice before taking pathogens/bacteria lightly...
I've noticed (NOT referring to anyone on this forum) that some people who feed raw become almost in denial about the pathogens/bacterias on raw meat. I belong to a couple of dog forums and people will throw raw meat on their carpet for their dogs and not think twice about it, and they have KIDS! To me that is insanity.
In a way I think I might stay in my safety zone and continue feeding canned. I feel safer...

Bluebo, we are not here to convince you to feed raw.... We are here to give you information on the diet and help you in any way you need. What I can say is, The AVMA had a FAQ page when they first came out with the policy against raw, and in it, they cited that many people according to the CDC acquired Salmonella from kibbles; but NOT ONE ever got sick from feeding raw. There are many threads right here on TCS discussing the pathogen issues of raw feeding, in the raw forum, in them you will find a ton of good information. It is not about debating, it is about being informed and making informed decisions. Feeding raw or not is really up to you.....
It's about you and your comfort level. Regardless of what you chose, Bo will be a happy and healthy cat eating canned - you have done a GREAT job transitioning him to an all wet diet..... Congratulations again!
If you have more questions about raw, we will be here, always happy to help you!

PS: From the AVMA page:

Q: Have cases of human illness been associated with raw food diets?
A: To date, there have been no reports of human illness associated with raw food diets.

Q: Have cases of human illness been associated with commercially processed kibble diets?
A: Yes, there have been cases of human salmonellosis associated with commercially prepared diets.

From 2006-2008, there was a multistate outbreak of Salmonella enterica serotype Schwarzengrund infections in humans. A total of 79 cases from 21 states were reported. The source of infection was identified as dry dog food produced at a manufacturing plant in Pennsylvania. This investigation was the first to identify contaminated dry dog food as a source of human Salmonella infections
In spring 2012, an outbreak of Salmonella Infantis was traced to a Diamond Foods production facility in Gaston, SC. A total of 49 individuals (47 individuals in 20 states and two individuals in Canada) were infected with the outbreak strain. Seventeen brands representing >30,000 tons of dry dog and cat food produced at the facility were recalled as a result of the outbreak.

https://www.avma.org/KB/Resources/FAQs/Pages/Raw-Pet-Foods-and-the-AVMA-Policy-FAQ.aspx

 

[bluebo]

Bluebo, we are not here to convince you to feed raw.... We are here to give you information on the diet and help you in any way you need. What I can say is, The AVMA had a FAQ page when they first came out with the policy against raw, and in it, they cited that many people according to the CDC acquired Salmonella from kibbles; but NOT ONE ever got sick from feeding raw. There are many threads right here on TCS discussing the pathogen issues of raw feeding, in the raw forum, in them you will find a ton of good information. It is not about debating, it is about being informed and making informed decisions. Feeding raw or not is really up to you.....
It's about you and your comfort level. Regardless of what you chose, Bo will be a happy and healthy cat eating canned - you have done a GREAT job transitioning him to an all wet diet..... Congratulations again!
If you have more questions about raw, we will be here, always happy to help you!
PS: From the AVMA page:

While I have read many similar articles (and this specific article) in the past, I know that there are many more incidences of salmonella poisonings (maybe not in raw pet food but in raw meat in general) in raw meats then in kibble. Not only that but listeria, E. coli, and toxoplasmosis (not including parasites). I don't wish for another raw debate either but I know what it feels like to have food poisoning (from salmonella)- I wouldn't wish it on an enemy.
That being said: I came on this forum expecting members to force raw feeding down my throat (no pun intended), and I was very pleasantly surprised. You have all shown a lot of respect for what I (and other members) feed our cats.
I belong to a couple of dog forums and they were very forceful and even sometimes cruel in their ideals. Basically: if I don't feed my dog raw I should euthanize my dog (yes one member said this). So this is where the initial defensiveness came from when I first joined.
I want to tell you guys that I appreciate your kindness and respect. This support has meant a lot to me and encouraged me to keep on keeping on with feeding Bo canned. AND WE DID IT!
Thank you so much and if I finally get the balls to feed my cat raw... I will bump this thread up and let you all know! Love you guys

 

[ldg]

I've had food poisoning several times. I've also had giardia. (The giardia was from water, and the food poisonings were all from cooked foods). I wouldn't wish them on anyone either. So I understand the caution. At some point... it's just a matter of getting comfortable with it, I guess. There are a lot of people feeding raw, and we're not getting sick with salmonella. My kitties sit on the furniture after using the litter box, I let Flowerbelle take a lick of ice cream off my spoon, she gives me kitty kisses.... but I get it's the kind of thing you just have to ... decide for your self your comfort level.

...and I'm really sorry someone would say something like that to anyone! How awful!

 

[bluebo]

I've had food poisoning several times. I've also had giardia. (The giardia was from water, and the food poisonings were all from cooked foods). I wouldn't wish them on anyone either. So I understand the caution. At some point... it's just a matter of getting comfortable with it, I guess. There are a lot of people feeding raw, and we're not getting sick with salmonella. My kitties sit on the furniture after using the litter box, I let Flowerbelle take a lick of ice cream off my spoon, she gives me kitty kisses.... but I get it's the kind of thing you just have to ... decide for your self your comfort level.
...and I'm really sorry someone would say something like that to anyone! How awful!

Trust me, if I didn't have kids the worry would NOT be there lol. I am also into parrots and reptiles (they also harbour salmonella, giardia etc) and because I have young children I don't have any of these pets either. Although when they are older-- I will have my Green-winged Macaw! And my Pionus. And my Ball Python. And my Rainbow Boa. I digress... lmao!
It was pretty damn awful. It actually made me feel HORRIBLE. I put her onto a PMR diet for about 1 year or so and she did very badly. Bad coat, no energy, no sense of humor (she's a boxer mix, she is known for her clowning), never consistent poops etc. I did EVERYTHING "by the book" and still no dice.
She is now on Acana duck and bartlett pear+raw+tripe. She is doing very well now!
So take that naysayers lol

 

[feralvr]

I came on this forum expecting members to force raw feeding down my throat (no pun intended), and I was very pleasantly surprised. You have all shown a lot of respect for what I (and other members) feed our cats.
I belong to a couple of dog forums and they were very forceful and even sometimes cruel in their ideals. Basically: if I don't feed my dog raw I should euthanize my dog (yes one member said this). So this is where the initial defensiveness came from when I first joined.
I want to tell you guys that I appreciate your kindness and respect. This support has meant a lot to me and encouraged me to keep on keeping on with feeding Bo canned. AND WE DID IT!
Thank you so much and if I finally get the balls to feed my cat raw... I will bump this thread up and let you all know! Love you guys

I would like to thank you for your words. :nod: We all really appreciate that and it is nice to hear. It really comes down to what YOU are comfortable with feeding your Bo that fits your lifestyle and home life. Support and understanding for whatever you choose is what you will get here. :nod: Sometimes, people take just being "educated" about raw as being "pushy" even though it is not. It is just information and knowledge to digest (no pun intended :lol3. Raw is not for everyone but what I love is that SO many are now in that "thinking about it" stage and really wanting to get more information about the ins and outs of feeding raw to their kitties. It is wonderful, I think.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

I'm just getting back into town after not having internet for 2 weeks, and have to say I am very exciting that you are even considering this switch.  Gosh, last time I was on here, you were having problems just switching him to canned food.  And now he's completely at 100%?  Holy cow....way to go 

  (I KNEW with Carolina's help you could do it

)

 

[bluebo]

I'm just getting back into town after not having internet for 2 weeks, and have to say I am very exciting that you are even considering this switch.  Gosh, last time I was on here, you were having problems just switching him to canned food.  And now he's completely at 100%?  Holy cow....way to go  :high5:   (I KNEW with Carolina's help you could do it )

It was a struggle but yes, we did it!! :nod: I switched his stainless steel bowl to a dish and that seemed to help tremendously. Thank you for all of the support, it's been a strain but thanks to Carolina *hugs* Bo and I got through it!