Please Help To Advise For Pancreatitis & Diabetes

[phobebon]

Hi, I am a new member here and while reading all useful posts that can help my cat and me, I am seeking help and any inputs for my cat indoor male cat, bean bean.

My cat is obese with 9kg mark and main reason should be due to food and being indoor.

Recently, he start to show little interest in his food (he is mainly on dry food), constipation and little lethargic than usual. We went to the vet and he is diagnosed with diabetes and we are given insulin (U100, 1 unit per time) to give twice a day. The vet prescribed new weight management diet (can and dry food) and wants us to switch completely and immediately.

We see that initially my cat is eating the dry food as if he likes it and quite soon the next day, he doesn't want it at all. However, my cat is not rejecting food, we try giving the old food and treats and he wants them. After the insulin given, my cat does not seems lethargic or in pain at all. He is actively playing when he is not sleeping, jumping up and down shelves, grooming, asked to be groomed and petted, drinks water on his own. All except wanting to eat much.

After which i went back to the vet for alternatives on the food, we agreed on mixing old and new food for a try. He is also a fussy food picker though and like Fancy Feast kibbles which most will say are not good for cat diet in general.

His followup this Tuesday, i decide to do a blood test for Pancreatitis and the vet came back the result as "Abnormal" which means no good but there is no indicative numbers to say it is acute or mild. The vet suggested an ultrasound on Friday to see what is going on with the organs to determine.

We are doing subcuts for him with 250ml per session twice daily as a stabilizing remedy for the Pancreatitis. He reacts well with subcuts as he is asking for food after the second session for 2 days and shows signs of being even more active or metabolism.

The vet prescribed 0.3ml vetegesic (same as Buprenex) as what i found twice a day, supposed to suppress any "pain" my cat is experiencing. My cat does not seems to be in pain or complaining much but according to the vet, they can hide it. My cat after given it orally shows like he is in dazed or unrest manner. He will sit in the same position for a long time and it scares me. I will sit besides him and keep getting his attention to check if he is ok.

Sorry for the long story above. I wish to know as per my description above, can someone advise me if you have experienced on the same issues and is what the vet doing alright? I am afraid my cat is put under stress from all the things and medication we do and he might not need them in the first place.

Thanks for any help in advance!

 

[Furballsmom]

Hi!
Can you speak with your vet more about the pain medication? From reading your description, to summarize, your cat was a lot more active and seemed happier after the insulin and the subq fluids, but then became very inactive after the pain med.

If your vet suggests a different pain med, ask if you can stop with the pain med for a little bit and see if the increased activity occurs again.

Or, can you speak with a different vet?

 

[phobebon]

Hi!
Can you speak with your vet more about the pain medication? From reading your description, to summarize, your cat was a lot more active and seemed happier after the insulin and the subq fluids, but then became very inactive after the pain med.

If your vet suggests a different pain med, ask if you can stop with the pain med for a little bit and see if the increased activity occurs again.

Or, can you speak with a different vet?

Hi Furballsmom, thanks for your reply. Yes, i am going to speak with the vet tomorrow and work out something after the ultrasound.
Will be asking on the pain med and dosage if we can reduce or apply when really needed.

 

[Furballsmom]

 

[PushPurrCatPaws]

My last cat had diabetes for the last 4 years of her life, and then also got pancreatitis in the last year of her life.

About the Buprenex/ pain med, I was one of those pet owners who did not like to see my cat totally drugged out, lethargic and "weird" on the pain med. It sounds like this is something of concern to you, too. It is actually very important that a cat going through bouts of pancreatitis be given something to help with this very painful issue. My cat's vet and I worked with the pain med dosage, discussing it in full, and we decided to titrate the dosage down to a point where we could tell by her behaviors that she was generally still not feeling pain (she was still playful, alert, ate well, had less constipation, etc). Please talk about this with your vet. I had very good experience with Buprenex helping my cat with her pain, but we just used a lower dosage than the .3 ml. (Please note that near the end of my cat's life, she also got cancer and her pain was more intense, and so we went back up to a corresponding, needed-at-that-time dose of Buprenex.)

Also, we avoided any dry food. We use canned food. It helped.

And I do feel an ultrasound will help diagnose more of what is going on, even though they are expensive tests.

Good luck to you!

 

[phobebon]

My last cat had diabetes for the last 4 years of her life, and then also got pancreatitis in the last year of her life.

About the Buprenex/ pain med, I was one of those pet owners who did not like to see my cat totally drugged out, lethargic and "weird" on the pain med. It sounds like this is something of concern to you, too. It is actually very important that a cat going through bouts of pancreatitis be given something to help with this very painful issue. My cat's vet and I worked with the pain med dosage, discussing it in full, and we decided to titrate the dosage down to a point where we could tell by her behaviors that she was generally still not feeling pain (she was still playful, alert, ate well, had less constipation, etc). Please talk about this with your vet. I had very good experience with Buprenex helping my cat with her pain, but we just used a lower dosage than the .3 ml. (Please note that near the end of my cat's life, she also got cancer and her pain was more intense, and so we went back up to a corresponding, needed-at-that-time dose of Buprenex.)

Also, we avoided any dry food. We use canned food. It helped.

And I do feel an ultrasound will help diagnose more of what is going on, even though they are expensive tests.

Good luck to you!

Hi PushPurrCatPaws, Thanks for your inputs! It did give me some encouragement I am not the only one concerned about the dosage. The symptoms of illness i have been trying to find are similar - Pancreatitis, Megacolon, IBD. At the current, i am very scared to give another dosage of the pain killer before the ultrasound is done. I read somewhere the pain killer is bad for liver conditions if he had any which we cannot tell now too.

My cat is a picky eater, we tried so many formulas and can food, but it wants nothing except a couple of the off-the-shelf dry kibbles. Once we mixed the food, he will also eat less altogether and trying to pick up his preferences ones.

I hope to find some therapy instead of aggressive medications to help him which i think it is more important about his quality of life. please do share with me any advice on food diets or medication if you have any. Thanks a lot!

 

[PushPurrCatPaws]

(Is your cat's name "Bean Bean"? I think I caught that in your first paragraph but want to make sure! )

My last kitty was also a bit overweight, and switching to the canned food took some time and patience, but it really is a good thing to do. Dry food is very hard on this type of ill cat's system, so I would really encourage you to try to find a canned food he can handle eating. Sometimes you can sprinkle what we call "toppers" on top of the canned food serving... like crumbling a tiny bit of his old dry food (only a little!) or even a tiny bit of fresh grated parmesan cheese on top, to entice them to smell something delicious, familiar or yummy.

There are a lot of members here who have experienced what you are going through who can help with their input, B babiesmom5 being a very knowledgeable person ()...

but I do know that with my cat having been diabetic and also experiencing pancreatitis issues (like possibly your cat), she could not be given what is normally given to a cat to help them with the pancreatitis inflammation... which was a steroid like Prednisolone. This was because steroids can increase the blood glucose and, with a cat that has diabetes, you really don't want to have factors that increase their blood sugar, if you can help it. Using steroids with a diabetic cat could thrown the health of the cat totally off-kilter. The vet will need to figure out how best to help your cat, as he or she is closest to the information about and health of your kitty.

 

[phobebon]

(Is your cat's name "Bean Bean"? I think I caught that in your first paragraph but want to make sure! )

My last kitty was also a bit overweight, and switching to the canned food took some time and patience, but it really is a good thing to do. Dry food is very hard on this type of ill cat's system, so I would really encourage you to try to find a canned food he can handle eating. Sometimes you can sprinkle what we call "toppers" on top of the canned food serving... like crumbling a tiny bit of his old dry food (only a little!) or even a tiny bit of fresh grated parmesan cheese on top, to entice them to smell something delicious, familiar or yummy.

There are a lot of members here who have experienced what you are going through who can help with their input, B babiesmom5 being a very knowledgeable person ()...

but I do know that with my cat having been diabetic and also experiencing pancreatitis issues (like possibly your cat), she could not be given what is normally given to a cat to help them with the pancreatitis inflammation... which was a steroid like Prednisolone. This was because steroids can increase the blood glucose and, with a cat that has diabetes, you really don't want to have factors that increase their blood sugar, if you can help it. Using steroids with a diabetic cat could thrown the health of the cat totally off-kilter. The vet will need to figure out how best to help your cat, as he or she is closest to the information about and health of your kitty.

Yes, his name is "Bean Bean". Today i throw a couple of his favourite bonito flakes on top of the prescribed wet food, he ate a few diluted slurps of it, then reject it. I syringe feed him some (i think he is stressed a bit) but no choice to let him have more food in his system. My vet told me the food for his weight management has to be prescribed for diabetes and i tried 2 brands and he does not eat either. any suitable can foods out there are recommended? To me now is to get him to eat healthily and deal with issues of the system at the same time.

 

[mikameek]

Hello! Welcome to TCS!

My cat Mika was put on Bup (the pain med) when she was going through some really tough bouts with liver and gallbladder issues. I noticed that when she wasn't really in pain anymore, the symptoms you described happened. She was much more lethargic, she wouldn't eat much and seemed very out of it. She wasn't originally like that when she first got on the pain meds. They helped tremendously to get her feeling better and mobile.

It's possible Bean Bean isn't actually in pain, especially from your description. I would take him off the pain meds and tell the vet about what you saw when you see them next.

 

[babiesmom5]

I am so sorry about your cat "Bean Bean" and can well relate to what you are going through.

I too had a cat who developed acute Pancreatitis due to underlying Diabetes. She first had to be hospitalized on IV fluids to get the pain and inflammation to subside. Then the Vet worked to determine the correct kind and dosage of insulin to give her (Lantus), along with special diet (high protein, low carbohydrate, DM wet), which kept her stable and well to a ripe old age of 20. There is hope...don't be discouraged!

As for the blood test for Pancreatitis, it is probably the Snap fPL (in house test done at your vets) which measures the enzyme lipase which is specific to the pancreas. This test does not give a number. It only gives "normal" or "abnormal". I can tell you though that if this test reads "abnormal", the pancreatitis is BAD! Pancreatitis is very serious!

A more specific blood test for Pancreatitis is the Spec fPL. This test DOES give you a number, but it has to be sent off to Texas A & M lab for analysis and takes a few days to a week to get back.

I can tell you that cats with Pancreatitis are in pain. They are in too much pain to eat. With Diabetes, the cat has to eat...thus the mainstay of treatment with Pancreatitis is IV fluids and pain management.

I would suggest you contact an Internal Medicine Vet. They are the best ones to diagnose and treat multiple internal issues going on here. Your cats probably needs a stay in the hospital on IV fluids to get the inflammation and pain down quickly. Then a GI ultrasound is probably next to see what state the pancreas and surrounding organs are in and go from there. The cat may have IBD or other issues as well, but a complete picture needs to be seen before issues can be properly addressed.

I would ask for referral to an Internal Medicine Vet which can be found at ER's, Veterinary Teaching Hospitals, and comprehensive vet clinics. Do not delay!

 

[phobebon]

Hello! Welcome to TCS!

My cat Mika was put on Bup (the pain med) when she was going through some really tough bouts with liver and gallbladder issues. I noticed that when she wasn't really in pain anymore, the symptoms you described happened. She was much more lethargic, she wouldn't eat much and seemed very out of it. She wasn't originally like that when she first got on the pain meds. They helped tremendously to get her feeling better and mobile.

It's possible Bean Bean isn't actually in pain, especially from your description. I would take him off the pain meds and tell the vet about what you saw when you see them next.

Thanks mikameek for your kind words and suggestions. I am trying to read more articles and threads on any other signs of pain i could have missed. Otherwise i think given him the med is more stressful to him.

 

[phobebon]

I am so sorry about your cat "Bean Bean" and can well relate to what you are going through.

I too had a cat who developed acute Pancreatitis due to underlying Diabetes. She first had to be hospitalized on IV fluids to get the pain and inflammation to subside. Then the Vet worked to determine the correct kind and dosage of insulin to give her (Lantus), along with special diet (high protein, low carbohydrate, DM wet), which kept her stable and well to a ripe old age of 20. There is hope...don't be discouraged!

As for the blood test for Pancreatitis, it is probably the Snap fPL (in house test done at your vets) which measures the enzyme lipase which is specific to the pancreas. This test does not give a number. It only gives "normal" or "abnormal". I can tell you though that if this test reads "abnormal", the pancreatitis is BAD! Pancreatitis is very serious!

A more specific blood test for Pancreatitis is the Spec fPL. This test DOES give you a number, but it has to be sent off to Texas A & M lab for analysis and takes a few days to a week to get back.

I can tell you that cats with Pancreatitis are in pain. They are in too much pain to eat. With Diabetes, the cat has to eat...thus the mainstay of treatment with Pancreatitis is IV fluids and pain management.

I would suggest you contact an Internal Medicine Vet. They are the best ones to diagnose and treat multiple internal issues going on here. Your cats probably needs a stay in the hospital on IV fluids to get the inflammation and pain down quickly. Then a GI ultrasound is probably next to see what state the pancreas and surrounding organs are in and go from there. The cat may have IBD or other issues as well, but a complete picture needs to be seen before issues can be properly addressed.

I would ask for referral to an Internal Medicine Vet which can be found at ER's, Veterinary Teaching Hospitals, and comprehensive vet clinics. Do not delay!

Hi babiesmom5, thanks for your message. It is good to hear that hope is there.
For the 3 days, we have been giving subcuts to stabilize and hopefully, there is improvement with the inflammation. For the painkiller seems to have quite and impact for my cat, i will check with the vet on this and the dosage.

My cat is still relatively active, jumping up and down shelves and wanting to be groomed and petted. So far, i brush him all over gently a few times and he did not winced or show pain in anyway. Either he is enduring it somehow.

Hope for all the best with the vet tomorrow.

 

[silkenpaw]

I think that insisting on a specific food in a diabetic animal is misguided. The important thing is that he eat. Yes, the diabetes management food would be ideal but sometimes you don’t have a choice.

Good luck with Bean Bean. I know you are being hit with a lot of new information at once, but it will sort itself out.

 

[phobebon]

I think that insisting on a specific food in a diabetic animal is misguided. The important thing is that he eat. Yes, the diabetes management food would be ideal but sometimes you don’t have a choice.

Good luck with Bean Bean. I know you are being hit with a lot of new information at once, but it will sort itself out.

Thanks silkenpaw for the input. Yes, i am trying all food as long as he eat something. Try feeding some healthier treats like dried freeze chicken to see if it can get his appetite back.

 

[phobebon]

Hi all, we did the ultrasound today and it shows a real case of Pancreatitis and my cat due to the stress around the area, his liver has inflammation. We are going to giving a lot of subcut fluids to bring the inflammation down and my vet agreed that we monitor my cat's behaviour and give the painkillers only when needed.

Further, we going to give medicine for the liver and supplements to help that and continue to monitor.

 

[mikameek]

his liver has inflammation.
Further, we going to give medicine for the liver and supplements to help that and continue to monitor.

Thankfully the liver is one of those organs that bounces back. Keeping him eating and doing the medicine will get him back on track with the liver which should help make the problem with pancreatitis a little bit easier to manage.

 

[LTS3]

You may also want to post for advice on the FelineDiabetes.com message board. The members there are really helpful. Pancreatitis is quite common in diabetic cats and there are different ways to manage that without affecting the diabetes too much.

Diagnosed with Pancreatitis - any advice much appreciated! | Feline Diabetes Message Board - FDMB
A Primer On Pancreatitis | Feline Diabetes Message Board - FDMB

What is the name of the insulin you are giving your cat?

 

[phobebon]

Thankfully the liver is one of those organs that bounces back. Keeping him eating and doing the medicine will get him back on track with the liver which should help make the problem with pancreatitis a little bit easier to manage.

Thank you mikameek for the information! Trying to get him to eat and do subcuts is a must for us now. Eating the medicine for him is going to be tough task, I will try my best to pop the pill in. Yesterday, we powdered the pill and supplement and syringed it, he spurted it all out and salivate. It could be too bitter for him to handle orally.

 

[phobebon]

You may also want to post for advice on the FelineDiabetes.com message board. The members there are really helpful. Pancreatitis is quite common in diabetic cats and there are different ways to manage that without affecting the diabetes too much.

Diagnosed with Pancreatitis - any advice much appreciated! | Feline Diabetes Message Board - FDMB
A Primer On Pancreatitis | Feline Diabetes Message Board - FDMB

What is the name of the insulin you are giving your cat?

Hi LTS3, thanks, will definitely take a look at the message board. Hopefully to get him to eat and get the liver back to shape.
The insulin is Lantus, supposed to be a slow-acting one to give him every 12 hours.

 

[mikameek]

Thank you mikameek for the information! Trying to get him to eat and do subcuts is a must for us now. Eating the medicine for him is going to be tough task, I will try my best to pop the pill in. Yesterday, we powdered the pill and supplement and syringed it, he spurted it all out and salivate. It could be too bitter for him to handle orally.

If he will still eat treats still, see if you can put it in a pill pocket and if he'll eat it like that. You might also want to try to cover the pill with either butter to help make it slide better. You might just have to get good at angling the pill towards the back of his throat. Maybe have someone help you by holding your cat in a kitty burrito (wrapping him in a blanket or towel) and flipping him on his back so you have easier access to his throat when he opens his mouth and just pop it back there. It might also be easier if you get a pill popper.