Please help me :(

[consumerkitty]

Everyone who suggested neutering your cat gave you the answer you are looking for. Un-neutered cats are very aggressive and that's why he's biting. Yes, it can take up to two months for the raging hormones to die down and yes it costs money to get him neutered, but since he has been your cat for 5 years isn't he worth it?

 

[going nova]

Original poster, it is very good advice to take your cat to be neutered. Hormones can cause cats to have some habits that are annoying to humans. Neutering him will help him to calm down right away, but the hormones that drive him to reproduce will not dissipate immediately.

Male cats that are not neutered have the drive to mate. Often, male cats will fight for mating rights. Perhaps your cat is exhibiting dominant behavior on your fiance and acting out on these urges?

Neutering has some health benefits to it (in addition to reducing pet overpopulation!). Neutered cats don't roam to find mates (they can travel long distances and be gone for long periods of time!), have reduced risk for certain types of cancers, and because it decreases the urge to fight then the risk of viruses (like FIV or FeLV) is also reduced. It's a good investment.

If you don't know of low-cost clinics in your area, you could start by calling the local veterinarian or animal shelter and asking them if they know of any low-cost places or organizations that can help with the cost.

Hope this helps some!

 

[thalia0717]

Thank you to all the replies. We have decided to try and get him neutered and hopefully it wont cause him to hate me more after. If this doesnt help however i will be looking for a new home. Any tip or nehaviors i need to know for after doing this? also to the posters who have made it sound like i dont care for my cat...in my opinion i think i did a great thing back 5 years when he was dying and my fiance had lost his job and i still decided to take him to a vet with the little money we had so he could have a long happy life. I dont know much about cats and its greatly appreciated that places like this exist and would love not to be put down for my lack of knowledge

 

[drjei]

Thalia,
You know me from another site (mfp) and requested my opinion here. Just a brief background for you other participants. I am a veterinarian working in a mixed-animal practice in Northern Utah. We have a full-time behavior specialist on-staff who should really be answering this post, but I believe I can provide some good insight myself.
First off, let me tell you that you deserve kudos for being willing to rescue an animal that would obviously have died otherwise.

The first step is obviously a big one. Regardless of errors or oversight on your part, and lets be honest, we all make them with our kitties, you should be commended for that first, loving step!

I do have to take exception to several things that have been said- forgive me if I am misinterpreting the intentions of the poster...firstly- to take a cat that has agressively attacked (regardless of provocation) to a shelter and NOT reveal the attack is putting someone else in the same risk from which you are trying to escape, so that isn't something I'd recommend.
Secondly, I fully agree with those who are recommending neutering. Regardless of the other issues, which I will discuss in a moment, it is very likely that there is a hormonally driven component to his attacking / defensive/agressive/territorial/whatever-it-may-be-motivated-by behavior. Neutering is an obvious first step. How much it will help is tough to predict at this point, as he is 5 years old and some of the behavior will have become learned behavior without obvious hormonal input. Having said that, however, it is the first thing ANY veterinarian worth their license would recommend, because it so often will have far-reaching effects for the good.
As far as the motivations for this behavior, I think that the obvious one has been left out- this cat was NEVER socialized. He was an orphan, grew up with people, led what sounds like a very sheltered existence, and thus was never de-sensitized to a lot of the things that most cats are exposed to as young kittens. It is a proven, scientific fact that the majority of a cat's character, behavior, and personality is determined by what happens to them in the first 12-24 weeks of life. Their brains are developing so quickly at that point, that if they have little chance to learn how to be a cat (either due to illness, loss of siblings or parent(s), or simple isolation) they will become what they are able to manage. Oftentimes this is an animal that has very few "normal" regulators to behavior. Their tolerance for change is greatly reduced, and their reactions to stress are often over-the-top and unduly exaggerated (like biting/scratching rather than just leaving a stressful situation).
I would also wonder how much the cat's behaviors are a territorial reaction to a "rival" invading his life in the form of your b.f. It certainly sounds like he feels you "belong" to him, and is reacting to the stress of having to share you.
Unfortunately, if the neutering doesn't make a big difference, you may be in for along haul

I have personally dealt with 2 cats in the past 15 years with behaviors as exaggerated as his. (essentially an attack without apparent provocation). 1 of them SEEMED to respond to the spray bottle technique initially, but eventually the stress of being sprayed caused him to escalate and redirect his behaviors to where it was scary to even enter the house. He, unfortunately, had to be euthanized.
The second cat did eventually become manageable, although he was never a "normal cat"...i.e. his behaviors were a little more predictable, but he could never be trusted with strangers, in the bedroom at night, etc. With HUGE effort on the part of the owner, he does now live a relatively low-stress life, and she feels his quality of life is acceptable.

He is on daily anti-anxiety medication and she is able to regiment his environment enough to mostly avoid the things that seemed to set him off. (Finding those triggers, by the way, took a good part of a year and multiple home visits by our trainer) .
Unfortunately, in spite of how much we love them, there are cats out there who we just can't afford (financially, emotionally, or liability-wise) to help the way we'd like to. It is an unfortunate reality in this world. However, you haven't done the most obvious things yet, so let's hope that makes a big difference.

I hope this isn't a downer/type message- I don't intend it to be...There is certainly a reasonable chance that getting him neutered (along with a good physical exam to be sure no other possible causes) will help a lot. If so, GREAT! If it doesn't, you will definitely have to make some tough choices...unfortunately, if you go down the "trying to modify his behavior" road without medical and behavioral specialists helping, it can be dangerous to you and anyone who comes in contact with him. Here's hoping that it doesn't come to that. Get him neutered and give him at least a month for behaviors to start to change. I WOULD keep him out of the bedroom from now on for sure- may take awhile, but it is a very good idea.
Best of luck to you- thougths are with ya!

 

[drjei]

Lastly, even though it hurts immensely to admit it, there ARE times when euthanasia IS the most humane choice (sorry miao kitty, but I really believe this). Cats that don't respond to the above-mentioned ideas are in a constant state of anxiety, fear, and agitation. They are NOT happy, and their quality of life can be really poor. If one were to measure the stress hormones on these cats, they'd be through the roof. I've been down this road with clients who have had to euthanize a BELOVED but dangerous pet. We've cried, we've held hands, we've grieved, but we've felt such a sense of relief for the poor lost souls of these pets when we've given them a blessed release from the fear, the pain, and the stress of living life like that. Please don't misunderstand me- I am NOT advocating euthanasia for simply-managed behavioral problems- at my hospital we have a very RIGOROUS set of criteria for when it is OK to euthanize an animal, and we always require proof that there has been a good-faith effort to hep these animals. However, it is also our duty to be advocates for the animals, and sometimes that means saying goodbye.
Again, hope that this is a completely non-applicable discussion for your kitty- neutering definitely helps so many of them. Best of luck!

 

[wellingtoncats]

I haven't read through all the posts but saw he was not neutered. I breed pedigree cats and often get bitten by them in the night. They are looking for a mate, and will often try and use your arm. If you have ever seen two cats mate, the male usually starts by grabbing the cats neck. This has happened to me many times, and I think you've made the best decision to get him neutered

 

[thalia0717]

Thank you so much to everyone and I will keep you updated....especially my mfp friend drjei. I am going to take him in tomorrow. Now what it the best way to tak him to the vet. im afraid to pick him up. Before we put a hole in a tub that was large and took him in that but i dont wnat the vet to think im wierd or god forbid he attack the vet. I have a large crate i use for my dog i just dont know if that is a good idea.....any opinions?

 

[Willowy]

You need to have a cat carrier. No other method is safe. Some shelters wil let you borrow one, or if you know someone you can borrow one from. Or you can buy one at Wal-Mart for about $25. If he doesn't go in by himself (throw a treat in, maybe he'll go for it), you can throw a towel over him and put him in the carrier.

Make sure he gets all his shots while he's at the vet!

Also, DO NOT have him de-clawed! (Some vets will push the procedure at the same time as neutering) De-clawing an adult cat frequently makes them much more aggressive, and can lead to increased chance of biting.

 

[ldg]

I think purchasing a cat crate is really the best option. You have a kitty - he needs a crate.

I think you'll find he becomes a real sweetie pet after he's neutered!

 

[thalia0717]

Hello all.

I'm the fiancee Thalia mentioned. She wanted me to add my thoughts to this conversation.

Her and I were together when we began caring for the orphaned kitten, Azriel. I spent time with him, but nowhere near as much as she did. She's the one who learned how to feet and bathroom train Azriel, which is why he holds her in such high regards.

The first time he bit me, I was asleep and my feet were hanging off the edge of the bed. I guess he thought there were play things? The second time, I was using the computer, and he jumped on the desk and sat in front of me. He suddenly wrapped his claws around my wrist and sunk his teeth in. The last time came a few years after the second. Again, I was sleeping and he was on the bed. I moved my leg and it hit him, which caused him to bite. The only instance that still doesn't make sense to me is the second one.

We also have a chihuahua who was with Azriel during his entire life. He has never once hissed, scratched or bit the dog, and she is always bothering him to play. He basically ignores her. Thalia also has a dog at her apartment that Azriel was unfamiliar with. We kept them separated but aware of each others presence for the first week or two. This dog is more hyper and energetic than the previous dog, but even her attempts to play with Azriel went ignored.

I'm no expert, but seeing how quickly he became comfortable in his new surroundings after moving him to Thalia's apartment and his ability to adapt to other animals makes me think he isn't easily stressed like the other cats that were mentioned.

 

[thalia0717]

The above post is by my fiancee. We are trying to get as much info as we can before we get this done....does someone need to be with him after the surgery....i was gonna bring him back to apartment....one of us is always working so i dont know can i leave him alone? and the shots and surgery is costing us a bit of money that we dont have right now....if i cant afford the crate too, what can i take him in?

 

[begemot]

Good luck with the surgery! I think will be fine to leave him alone after (but I'm not an expert). I also think that if money is really tight, neutering is the priority and not getting him a carrier that probably won't be used again for another year. I think a sturdy box with holes cut in it would be fine. He will also be less anxious if he can see out, so the more holes the better. If you put some padding in the bottom of the box so he's not sliding all around, he'll feel more secure as well.

I know drjei completely means well, but I think that the posts were a little overboard. I know the repercussions of the last bite were really bad, but this is a cat who's only bitten four times in five years. I don't think that we can assume just from that that he has an aggression problem. From Thalia's fiancee's post it also sounds like at least one of the times was intended playfully. The second time may have been intended playfully as well: the way your arm was moving may have suddenly looked alluringly like prey, so he pounced, without intending to hurt you.

I do agree with the socialization stuff. My first cat, in my childhood, was adopted as a tiny kitten and grew up without other cats to socialize with. He never learned proper bite inhibition as a result, so when we played with him we had to be careful that he directed his attention to toys, and not our hands or feet. In the spirit of the moment he could bite very hard. It wasn't aggression, it was just that he hadn't learned the proper bite strength from playing with his litter-mates as a kitten. He meant it playfully. The best response is to say "OW!" or something else very loudly and then completely withdraw attention, possibly leaving the room if necessary. This teaches that biting too hard means he will lose his playmate.

I don't think the other examples that drjei used were totally relevant. From the descriptions, it seems like this cat is nowhere near the point that those cats were, and euthanasia shouldn't even be on the table yet.

Anyway, good luck! I really hope being neutered turns things around! I've seen what a big difference it can make.

 

[Willowy]

Call the vet clinic--a lot of them have carriers you can borrow. If not, a good sturdy box might work, just make sure there's NO way he can get out. Or 2 laundry baskets tied together. If the dog crate is small enough to carry around, you could use that. Except be careful if it's a wire crate--I've had cats get out of the wire on the bottom before.

Neutering is a fairly simple procedure. He shouldn't need anybody home with him or any special care. Depending on the anesthetic used and what time you bring him home, he may be dopey. If so, leave him in the box/carrier or in a small room where he can sleep it off and not hurt himself banging into things. I'm sure the vet will give you a post-op care sheet (ask for it if not offered), but with neuters all you really need to watch for is possible infection (but it's rare).

From your description I would guess that his behavior is probably hormonal. There's a young tomcat I know who will jump on my leg and bite every time he sees me. Classic mating behavior. So hopefully he'll stop after all those hormones go out.

He sounds like a great cat! Most tomcat spray urine everywhere they can, or do that leg thing I mentioned above ^^. He must be especially chill to have been an indoor tomcat for so long.

 

[drjei]

Begemot, I agree with you...having more clarification from Thalia's fiancee, it does seem that the majority of these bites were "provoked" (meaning explainable) in some way. The lack of socialization does likely provide a good explanation for him possibly extending the bite beyond more than a typical "testing" or "play" bite. Neutering is definitely the best place to start (as I stated in my original post).
Thalia, I know at my veterinary hospital we have numerous carriers that we will lend to someone to enable them to bring in their kitty safely and effectively. The problem with many of the home-made carriers is that they don't tend to stay escape-proof, even if they start out that way.
Can't remember which poster mentioned it, but the bite to the arm at night definitely could be a breeding behavior....if so, hopefully it is hormonally driven and not learned.
Best of luck!

 

[raincloud]

Originally Posted by THALIA0717

My hand is really swollen and bruised. Im confused. the place i went to the doctors they have cats and are lovers but told me to give him away that if hes been like this to the age of 5 there is no changing his behavior. Hes not a young cat. hes 5. I get everyone here saying keep him and all medical opinions to give him away if hes that aggressive and biting when no one is bothering him. I havent given him shots ( i never had an animal growing up i didnt know...and hes not fixed) if i did that now, do you think it would help at all? I dont want to be afraid.

Bah. I don't agree at all with the people who are saying to get rid of him at all! 5 is young. 2 years is officially an adult, and some cats can live upwards of 15 years (from what I understand). So I'd say he's young. And there's plenty of time for his behavior to change! But it sounds like he needs to de-stress, which I think you can do by just spending time with him. Maybe leave him with something to interest him while you're gone? Like one of those mice mazes or something, that would keep his interest.

All of my cats go for a bite first if they are stressed out, which is why I'm thinking this is stress. They don't want to give a warning, they're upset.

If he's never had shots, you should take him to the vet and do those. Definitely. Some other poster(s) mentioned he might be ill, if he's exhibiting aggressive behavior. Definitely get that checked out.